hi all, i want to sail faster but cant break the thirtys. i know my technique needs attention how ever i do have good days, im just under sixty kgs, on 80 litres of slalom, six meters, on 30 fin. do i really have to wear weights ? do i need to rig bigger/smaller [ say twenty five knots ] fin change ? perhaps a brick on the front of my board...... anything, all comments appreiated. cheeers. and how much speed does one loose when his fin whistles
Before doing anything equipment wise try sailing at the right angle to the wind which should be right off the wind to the point where the sail feels light in the hands.
under 60 kilos hahahahahah you should be a jocky, dude. look the best advise i can give ya lad is eat more donuts and drink more red bull then after a month go out and see how much faster you will be. it's amazen what donuts do and drinking lots of red bull. like they say it gives ya wings
under 60 kilos hahah if you told the pit crew that they would laugh at ya. alot of the speed dudes are big blokes
Come on Sailquick, you've just got to reply to that last line.
just keep at it desta,im 15 years old 63 kg and have done 37.7 knots.board trim is very important.
Windtechno- as he said he was a light sailor he is not trying to break 40 he just wants to get over that 30 !! which can be done by his weight.plus NSW does not allways has the winds to get the chance.
As for your question on fin whistle. I've got a Select Fin (is yours Select?) that whistles like nothing else past about 33 knots. I read up on various forums (like the starboards one) and people recommended sharpening/squaring off the training edge as its vortex shedding or something that causes the vibration. As with all things in physics - the energy going into the noise could be energy coming out of your speed. However, like the posts above the first thing to ask is whether you are heading far enough off the wind & second thing to ask is whether you're scared to bits doing it - Not scared might equate to not enough power etc..
As for the whistle - I don't use that fin much these days but I liken it to having a GPS with audible speed alert - I knew whether I was on a good run by the pitch and volume of the whistle - and it lets the slow people know youre closing on them
Flat water, speed fin, broad reach, good board trim and upright sail. The rest is up to you. All the best.
60 kilos !!!! man I dump 60 most mornings but then I am built like Fat bastard " I want my baby back baby back 
I think like the others say , your 60 kgs so sail the best you can for a lighter guy . I also think that you can easily break the 30's .
I'm a fat prick and I can tell you if you want fast then get strong , real strong , pump the weights do all that core strength stuff and you will be one hard bastard who will be able to hold onto your rig and make that board fly . No good having another 10kgs of donut induced weight you need to be one hard spring steel connection between board and rig .
eg Tony Wynhoven is about 6'5 and weighs just under the ton whereas I am 6'4 and weigh closer to 130 . you think an extra 30 kilos brings speed ? NO way ! He is one strong dutchman ( freaky deeky dutch bastard to be exact) again he is like a steel connection between rig and board where me I 'm more like a rubber universal joint thats been left in sun and salt water too long . I think you will sail faster than a fat 90 kg boy any day .
Technique and gear tuning will do the rest .
Look forward to hearing how you progress .
By the way is the fin whistling " Frere Jacques " by any chance
All the best ,
ANT
"But when you're an overweight child, in a society that demands perfection, your sense of right and wrong, fair and unfair will always be tragically skewed."
i would say technique but also depends on how flat the water is i had it one day i was doing 33.5 in 15-18 knots on flatish sorta water and the day after the old boy went out and in 25-35 knots could only do a max of 34.7 in the same area but it was really choppy makes you feel like your hooting along but actually going slower and a good fin makes all the difference as well
Hi all,
After that intro by Dartboy, I have to chuck in my 2 bob worth... He's right, I am also a big bastard, but I don't think that's the secret. Daffy is the living proof and also guys like Martin v meurs etc. With companies like Ka making awesome small sails like the 4.4 koncept (maybe even a 4.0 this year!) and proper small speed boards and tiny speed fins available, big speeds are for everyone! Back in the dino era when we started speedsailing (circa 1987) we were on plastic fins and 9' x 21" slalom boards and alloy masts and no cam sails. It was a real effort to get every possible knot out of that crap gear. In my humble opinion, that's where a lot of the guys relatively(!) new to the sport have missed out. The new gear is so easy to go fast on that you just rig it and hit Sandy on a good day and do 35+ without even thinking about it. Its the guys that do think about it that take it to the next level. If you squeeze every possible bit of speed out of the new gear (as we had to on the old crap kit) then you're tuned... Its a matter of looking at you gear and thinking about what you can do to make it go better - not always by getting all techo and pulling out the calculator, but using common sense. Apart from that ( and possibly the most important) is attitude. Some call it balls but that doesn't explain awesome speedsailing chicks like Karen Yaggi.. It takes a bit of attitude to be at full speed and still sheet in and bear away into the choppy stuff when you see a big gust coming at you. Unfortunately, this is what speed sailing is
As for our friend Desta, your gear sounds pretty big if you are looking at speed, especially in 25kn. Daffy would be on the 5.0 and a 60 litre board in 25 and doin 40's. At 103 kg, I use a 80 litre f2 sx small and 5.8 or 6.6 Koncept and a 23 cm KA speed fin, even in the bay or lake in chop. Your 30cm fin (especially if whistling) will be holding you back a lot( and probably lifting out of the water and dumping you!) at speed. If possible, try to get a sail on one of the awesome speed boards around such as the missile s , carbon art 44 or 50, isonics etc.
Most of all, get out and have fun. The speed will come when you can relax and enjoy. Match race with ya mates and make it personal
hope any of this helps...
cheers Tony wynhoven
thank you so much for all of your opinions. awsome!!!
ok, went sailing today :) was cool fun :) i wore camel pak full of water....id say i felt different, maybe more confident, plenty of adivice from leo whilst sailing, some times my board felt flatter, he also commented on harness lines, and boom height all of which ill be thinking of till next session. i beard off at moments, more than usual, ill be investing in weight jaket, smaller fin ( buy the way, was an ab fin which was loose in the box. it wobbled a tad. the jp fits like a glove so no whistles today, didn feel like i was sliding. i like the jp fin :) ) and remember all the above to better my technique so i have control to bear off more. we also did some filming today. ill get there if not soon........when i sail an sandy point. yeep... im comming boys.
once again cheers to all, peace, Marni
Hey Wynhoven " Thats a Keeper ! " 
all the best
ANT .
" There are only two things I hate; those who are intolerant of other people's cultures............... And the Dutch."
Yeah! What Tony said.........
Ultimately, a good big guy can usually go consistently faster than a good little'un. But at Sandy Point at least, there is not quite as much in it as we once thought as long as you have your gear suited and tuned to you weight and height.
Ado is about my weight and pushing the envelope right up there.
Mat is lighter/smaller than both of us and right on our tails.
Steve Thorpe from the UK is 75 kilos and has a 43.95 average! That is definitely right up there with some big boys.
And don't forget that the first guy to crack 40 knots on an official WSSRC 500m course, Erik Beal, was also right around my 75kilo size! That has been a huge inspiration to me personally ever since.
And when it gets really epic, as long as you have gear small enough (I need that 4m speed sail!!
) and tuned to yourself it comes much more down to experience and technique ( and just a small dash of bravery ) and then the difference is not as great as you might think.
i dont think this boy is really made to go fast i think you will do better as a wave sailor. desta sorry but ya way to small son i think you might be better at riding horses no offence
jockey my arse. watch me 
i think you might be better at riding horses no offence
post the movie marni !! lets have a look at some smoking jybes !!
its amazing how much you inprove wen theres a camera on ya !!
have a look at the movie marni and look for the gusts see if you head down wind at the right time..... or were u too late 
I think its only from spending lots of time on the water "in the straps" that u will get confident & faster
4 days sandy point = 3 months @ the lake if not more i came back a different sailor. "thanks matt and pit crew" just sitting on the bank watching ... i knew i needed to toughen the fxxx up
!!
confidence also is the key knowing u can ... but not being too cock sure cos thats wen it hurts
the past three days for me have been great chasing planes down the runway "those pilots are friendly folk "
with good friends good wind i know that i have inproved no end just by getting long runs changing harness + lines mast foot and being able to make changes to my gear ... sometime good sometimes bad but thats wen u learn !!
Lets have a great summer boys Look forward to PIT soon.
LARKO YOUR ASS IS MINE !!!!
Only because your gay!!!!
Anytime, bring it on.
Windtechno, I hope your taking the piss.
Marni is a young bloke who is keen as mustard and learning quickly. By asking questions and getting answers from the really top guys like Daffy, Tony W and Leo shows he wants to go harder. Good on him!!!!!
With the board he has now he will crack 30 easy.
i hope he is too Ka 43 30 knots he is well capible of when he gets the day.......@ windtechno you in the pitcrew ??
i am not in the crew but i have sailed with them. they are fast dudes. they all seem to know there trade of speed sailing well.
Heres a wriggly open can of worms.
No offence to the big guys claiming that size doesnt matter... but the physics of it show quite clearly that weight and leverage => higher speed (or should). Really- its pretty hard for big guys to prove this since its harder for them to take 10% of their weight off and go for another run.
All the top speedsailors (including Dave "size doesnt matter" White at 125kg) wear extra weight when speedsailing- especially during competitions, and even when the wind is light. hmm if size didnt matter then why do these highly skilled and well trained athletes wear weight? Let me assure you its got a lot to do with proven testing.
Every time I put weight on for the same gear, I go faster. Sometimes as much as 3 or 4 knots for only 8kg of lead-based leverage. I wouldnt have gone as fast as I have if I were smaller. I wouldnt have gone as fast as I have without extra weight. If you are not going faster with lead on it means you are underpowered or something is not balanced with your equipment. Its as simple as that.
Some reasons:
1) forward accelleration/forward force is proportional to leverage
2) leverage is proportional to weight.
3) drag is *not* proportional to weight
The problem lies here. A given board trimming at a given angle with a given wetted area generates a fixed drag. That given board requires a certain weight to balance the nose lift, and the tail lift (which is required to balance the upward aerodynamically induced pitching moment of the nose). This has nothing to do with rider weight- ie a heavier rider needs to apply the same weight to the tail of the board to balance it, as a lighter rider. That means the board drag is a relative constant. Smaller boards => lower drag.
Fins: With any significant laminar flow the drag is relatively constant up to a certain amount of lift (shown as the "drag bucket" in lift/drag graphs). Now we are limited by fin length due to the tail width of the board- this balance needs to be maintained. So we generally choose the fin based on its length for a given board to keep it balanced. Huge guys tend to use roughly the same fin size (+/- 5%) as even the really small guys in proper speed conditions, meaning the bigger guys (requiring more lift from the fin) are getting more lift for roughly the same drag as the small guys due to the drag bucket. Another win for the heavy guys.
So far thats the board and fin giving approximately constant drag regardless of rider size...
The sail is the only part where the drag scales with lift. And this is the only area where small guys can scale with the big guys.
Dynamics: Another thing that favours the big guys is not only is their accelleration greater, but because of the extra mass, the board impacts with chop (which produce the same forces for everyone- big or small) are easier to control. Also, the decelleration is also lower (due to the higher momnentum for the same drag). So overall a heavier guy is going to accellerate more, and hold speed for longer through lulls and chop.
Light guys who chuck on a weight jacket notice immediately the increased control in chop, and the exrea power in their hands. The only problem with weight is its a lot harder on the body to move around, and sailing is very dynamic, so you get tired quickly unless you are fit and have trained with weight on.
Accelleration is proportional to leverage (height*weight).
Decelleration is inversely proportional to weight.
Sail drag (ideally sized and rigged for the rider) is proportional to weight.
In constant wind and flat water conditions, tall with high leverage is king (accelleration).
In gusty conditions, heavy is king (if the rider has the skill to keep weight off the board and on the rig) due to the lower decelleration in lulls and chop.
Weight jackets increase leverage and weight.
So there ya have it. If you are a lightweight, dont be upset if a big guy keeps stomping on your speeds. He/she SHOULD be faster. If you are a light guy keeping up or passing the gorillas then you should be proud. Because it means that you are sailing with better tuning and balance than they are. If you are a big guy getting beaten by Daffy, then its time to HTFU and use a bigger sail
What matters is that we are challenging ourselves to do better. Faster is more fun, and we can all go faster. Its the never ending quest... The feeling of flying over the water relates to finding that optimum board loading where the board drag is minimised and the rig supports our weight. The more we feel that, the more fun we have, and the faster we go.
look, desta. you need to work out, thats all i am saying. thease speed junkies are big boys. you need some weight on ya boy. look next time you come over here show the boys what speed you can do. if you crack the 30 knot mark. they might look at ya boy, joining the pit crew team. but you will have to work at it son. i know chicks who are like 120 kilos and they can pick blokes up who are like your weight and throw them 10 feet up in the air into the water, no joke
