baring off, spinout and coping with chop

Hi Guys

Apologies in advance of the lengthy post, but I need help/advice from you gurus

I know there's been a tonne of threads about how to improve speed and I've read most of them (many old ones that are now closed), but I still have a few questions around some things I'm struggling with in my quest to go faster


Background: I ride a 115ltr Tabou Rocket with twin-cam free-race sails and FO Nitros.

1. when I bare off I'm finding that running with the chop (small swell) in Botany Bay, than the board is far more susceptible to spinning out. It's main when I launch over the back (over take) the chop. As I come over the top of the chop the fin has a lot less grip on the water. If I stay on the power and don't back off when I approach a bigger lump, it's pretty scary and I never know if the tail's going to let go. If I do sheet out a bit and stand up straighter then I feel like I'm definitely loosing power. So, how do I handle the rolling lumps when heading down wind... what do you guys do? I have my front leg as straight as possible and my mast track in the middle.

2. What's the ideal angle off the wind for speed?

3. When baring off I'm still sheeting in hard (locked-in with the gap closed). While this feels where most of the power is, it confuses me, because I keep thinking that logically the more off the wind I sail the more I should be sheeting out to keep the sail square to the wind (in yachting it's called gull wing)... but in practice this doesn't feel as powerful or fast. I suspect this has something to do with "apparent wind"?? Is this where the top twisting off really helps (and thus more downhaul)?Can you guys please explain this for me and how apparent wind works when baring off for a speed run.

4. Yesterday I tried sailing with my mast track in the furthest back position. It felt good, but even in my inexperience I could tell it caused me to force more weight onto the back foot and load-up the fin way too much, resulting in a lot more spin out. So I moved it back to dead centre, which felt much better and controllable. How does mast track effect speed and heading?

5. My last few sessions I've been rigging one size bigger than I would normally be comfortable with because I've been told that bigger sails = more speed. However, yesterday, in just 20-25kts I decided to rig my 6m because I wanted to practice gybing, but in doing so I felt in perfect control and managed to get 4 PBs, including beating my 2 sec by >1 knt, which I previously achieved in exactly the same conditions only with a 7.1 (same sail make and model btw). I was also going faster than guys on 7.5 sails. So I'm now thinking that size doesn't matter... it's about control? What's you're take on this?

6. last question, do smaller fins have less drag and therefore go faster? I imagine they're more susceptible to spinout, but if I can figure out the answer to question 1, maybe I can use a smaller fin (assuming smaller is faster).

Thanks in advance of your sage advice.

Peace to ya,
Nige

For me control equals speed, and I can't advise about chop, I'm no good in it.
my fastest runs have been with a 5.0, and I also have been told, "bigger is faster" but it doesn't seem to work for me.

I've got a mate who's over 20kg heavier than me, and goes faster on the same size sail as me, even though I feel underpowered, and in need of a bigger sail.
But as the wind picks up, and I feel more powered up, the difference in our speeds diminishes.
Make sense of that if you can!

For what it's worth:- Because the vast majority of my experience at speed sailing has been in 30kts 'ish and up winds and small 50-60 litre boards under 45cm wide with fins 20cm and smaller, mostly assy on 'flattish' water, or at least water where the chop is quite short and one can usually cut through it without the board pitching and bouncing much. But I do like to push the slalom board downwind through the hairy chop here to try for a 30+ Nautie occasionally!

1. Smartarse answer: You can't. Just find flatter water.
Serious answer: You need to have some 'give' in your legs and try to 'ride' the board over the bumps, trying to minimise shock loading the fin as much as possible. Not always easy when you are also trying to extract max power and stay on top of your board, but that is my best tip other than the other stuff below.

2. The ideal angle off the wind depends on many things. There is no magic number. It changes (increases) as the wind gets stronger because your efficiency (board speed to wind speed) decreases. But as a starting point it mostly ranges from 115 degrees off the wind to 135 or maybe a couple more at somewhere like the Luderitz ditch with 50-60 knots gusts. One way to find it on any given run is to watch your GPS as you sail, or, listen to the audio feedback from the GT-31 Genie. (It beeps at you as your average speed is increasing and stops when it is not - I think the light flashes in sync as well)

3. See answer 2, but it is definitely possible to oversheet when running broad, especially in stronger winds where you apparent wind is not so far forward. Mal Wright taught me to try to sail with the least sheeting angle where you can still feel the sail drawing properly with laminar flow (or what passes for it). At mid 40 knots speeds, you want to take the pressure off the fin as much as you can and have the sail sheeted out a bit to have the maximum lift vector as much in the direction of travel as possible. I can't give you any rules for this. It is a trial and error sort of thing and the more you do it the better you get at feeling it. Now you know what to try to look for.

4. Strictly speaking, having you mast track further back should not automatically increase pressure on the back foot. The centre of effort in the sail will still balance with the centre of resistance of the board. The sail just stands up straighter. But, this might allow the sail to be a bit more efficient and provide increased lift. That is what you might be feeling as increased fin pressure. It also may take a bit of weight off the front of the board as your stance changes because of the more upright rig. This may move the centre of resistance further back and allow the centre of effort to come further back to compensate. This is more about the resultant mast foot pressure from your stance, but will have the effect that you felt as well. Ideally, you need to find a balance between max efficiency and comfort/control, because that is where the best speed is.

5. Bigger sails are only faster until you reach the limit of the power you can use efficiently. There is an optimum size for any wind and sail. Increased size also means increased drag. Simply put, you need to sail the smallest sail you can feel close to fully powered up on without down hauling the sail to the point where it is all drag and no more lift. Imaging the difference in 30 knots of wind between a 5m sail that is set fullish down low, but still flat and twisted in the top and providing enough power for you to be fully extended for near max leverage, and the 7.5m sail that has to be set with massively twisted loose leech and very flat lower foil to maintain control. It may actually not be making any more useful lift but will certainly be making a massive amount more drag. In the early days at Sandy Point when the wind conditions were very much more laminar, my best speeds in the low to mid 40's were always on my 4.4m Koncepts, even though I could easily hold the 5m. I would swap down and go 2 knots faster straight away. Part of this was because of the lower centre of effort in the sail. This directs more drive forward rather than upwards. Part was due to the lighter rig allowing the board to sail lighter on the water (higher with less resistance). As we have evolved our sails to move the power lower and reduce the upper sail drag, (and the wind characteristic here have changed slightly), I find myself doing PB's (or at least getting closer to them) now more often on my 5m and even 5.4m Koncepts. Of course, this might also be partly because I have a little more 'natural leverage' now as well!.

6. It's the same with fins as with sails. You need to use the smallest fin that will give you the control and lift you need to balance your rig at the angle you are sailing. The faster you go, the more lift a fin generates. For me, I have been using 16.5cm and 18cm Tribal assy fins lately for my best speed runs. The downside is that the 16.5 is a bit difficult to sail back upwind through the washing machine chop in 40+ knots of wind with a 5m sail. Thats probably just my lack of skill and fitness though.
Smaller sails should more efficient and allow the use of smaller fins. Fin size for anything less than pure speed seeking on a dedicated speed strip is always a compromise between max speed and control, both off the wind and sailing back. So yes, try a smaller fin for sure!

The one you missed: The type and design of your board also has a big influence on control over chop off the wind. Some designs are particularly good at minimising bounce and pitch and thus giving your fin and body a much easier task to cope with. Unfortunately, again there is no magic design for all conditions. There are always compromises, but you may be able to find a board that is better for your particular common conditions by trying as many as you can. You may have noticed that some board brands make dedicated 'speed' boards that seem very close in size to their smaller slalom boards. Often, these designs are more optimised for flatter running over downwind chop.

I hope this helps, Andrew

"The older I get, the better I was"

listen to the audio feedback from the GT-31 Genie. (It beeps at you as your average speed is increasing and stops when it is not
How do you get the GT 31 to do that? I have never heard mine make a sound while sailing even though the alarm is set to go off at 30 knots.

Nice discussion. I am just starting to bear off downwind but have been very unsuccessful. What I find happening is that I start off on a broad reach, when comfortable, I see a bit of a gust, and start turning downwind. I then start to bend my back leg and keep my front leg straight, whilst keeping the body low. Then I feel the acceleration and so I keep low to counteract the power. Before I know it, the sail has lost any weight at all and I fall in backwards.

I've heard suggestions that I need to stand up, or point back upwind. But I just don't get it.

ps. I am a very low level gps sailor (27knot 2 sec is my pb).

Wow... I nearly deleted my original post because I was worried about sounding like a kook (novice... which I am), but glad I didn't. Some really relevant feedback. Again, thanks guys!