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Which GPSS sail to buy: Vapor/Blade/Koncept/RS:6 ?

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Created by einzius > 9 months ago, 4 May 2011
einzius
9 posts
4 May 2011 1:14AM
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Hi,

I am upgrading my windsurfing equipment. Currently choosing a new sail for GPS speedsurfing and slalom. Which sails you guys would recommend from this selection:

1) Ka Koncept 6.6 2009
2) Loft Sails Blade 6.2 2009
3) Gaastra Vapor 6.5 from 2007 or 2008
4) RS:6 6.2

I can find some reviews about Vapor and RS, but not much about this Koncept and Blade. Can you enlighten me?

lelos12345
NSW, 453 posts
4 May 2011 9:59AM
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hey
I ride ka 7.5 loft 6.3 and have rs6 5.4 there all great sails and fast
I think there will be a great deal of difference in the 6.2loft and 6.6 ka
and rs6

I find the rs6 very powerfull for there size ka on the money and loft you can sail them in much higher winds ie I've given in on the 5.8 cos the loft has such a great range

so i think its more to do with your collection and wind range u use most .

happy sailing

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
4 May 2011 12:44PM
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All great sails, no problem there.
Any other opinion from me will be seen at totally biased so I will just let these results speak,

www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=records
www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=53262&uid=831

Give Peter at KA in the Netherlands a yell,

peter@pwsurfsport.com or peter@kasail.com

vando
QLD, 3418 posts
4 May 2011 2:38PM
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as lelos12345 said above all are good sails. one thing to think about is what mast you have or going to buy.
as far as results go I think you find they all perform very well.
I find the Blades are one of the easiest race sails to use but then im bias also .

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
4 May 2011 2:44PM
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For me the decision was made on ease of waterstarting, which I do a lot. I tried one RS racing and couldn't get it out of the water, so a narrower luff sleeve was a must. I tried a Koncept and loved the acceleration and forward drive, bought one and found it a dream to sail. It just about sails itself. I now have two Koncepts and am in the process of acquiring a quiver of them. They suit a variety of mast brands which helps too.

My team captain Lao Shi has one 7m Loft Blade, and hasn't sailed anything else since getting it. No doubt he will reply to your question singing it's praises. The blade seems to have a huge range requiring a smaller quiver.

I can't comment on vapors.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
4 May 2011 4:50PM
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Blades all the way. Absolutely best sail on the market considering performance, cost and quality.
BTW - I'm not sponsored by Loft (unfortunately)

choco
SA, 4175 posts
4 May 2011 8:03PM
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sausage said...

Blades all the way. Absolutely best sail on the market considering performance, cost and quality.
BTW - I'm not sponsored by Loft (unfortunately)


The prices Bud sells them at everyone is a "Team Rider"

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
4 May 2011 9:06PM
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Choco,
Very true I suppose.

Henrik,
I should have added that I predominately sail in open ocean conditions (Slalom orientated as opposed to pure flat water speed) and have found the Blade to be much more powerful through the lulls and coming out of gybes. They are also very stable and (in a good way) have a soft feel which is excellent when you have to deal with my local conditions. The thing that really tips it over the line is it's build quality - near 100% monofilm sails have never been very appealing to me.

I know the speed purists (who sail very deep and on flat water) will find this advice sacrilege as the Koncepts seem to be the sail of choice for them. Horses for courses although I think I've found my "Black Caviar*" in the Blades.

I have an 09 6.6 Koncept and an 08 7.5 Koncept which the 2011 7.0 Blade has now unexpectedly replaced as it's range is pretty incredible.

Can't offer any advice on the Vapours or RS:6.

*Black Caviar en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Caviar_%28horse%29

andersbq
61 posts
5 May 2011 3:06AM
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The Loft and the KA:s are both fast, but very different sails.
I would say that Loft is close to a Naish (more busy) and KA is more like an NP (a little dead, but still fast). I prefer the busier style myself.

andersbq.com

TASSIEROCKS
TAS, 1652 posts
5 May 2011 11:32AM
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Hi,

I am sure I will be considered biased with my advice on sails as well, but for me KA Koncept are brilliant sails because of a few things.

1 Rotation is fantastic
2. The luff pocket is not to huge
3. tuneability of the sails is fantastic
4 Durability is very good and the fittings and finish is very good.
5. Price point is good
6. No gimmicks on the sails, and they feel light and natural on the water and deliver high speed.
7. Draft is locked in extreme winds.
8. Range is very impressive my 6.6 works fantastic in 15 to 30 knots no problem.

I have used many brands of race sails eg North, Naish, KA in the end I find the KA Koncept is best for my style of sailing that I have found thus far. Off the wind the Koncept just behaves so well, and is competitive with every other brand. Reaching speed is very good. I sail in heaps of high wind rough water situations and find I just forget about the sail and concentrate on the finding the best path through the chop.

Mates of mine use the Severn Reflex and they look very nice as well.

Try and see if you can demo all the brands and then make up you own mind.

Best of luck and enjoy whatever you buy because they are all good.

Russ

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
5 May 2011 10:52AM
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andersbq said...

The Loft and the KA:s are both fast, but very different sails.
I would say that Loft is close to a Naish (more busy) and KA is more like an NP (a little dead, but still fast). I prefer the busier style myself.

andersbq.com



What do you mean by "busy" and "dead"?

kato
VIC, 3506 posts
5 May 2011 5:52PM
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Windxtasy said...

andersbq said...

The Loft and the KA:s are both fast, but very different sails.
I would say that Loft is close to a Naish (more busy) and KA is more like an NP (a little dead, but still fast). I prefer the busier style myself.

andersbq.com



What do you mean by "busy" and "dead"?


The draft moving around ( Center of effort ) . Busy

No draft movement or locked in. Dead......fast

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
5 May 2011 7:41PM
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kato said...

Windxtasy said...

andersbq said...

The Loft and the KA:s are both fast, but very different sails.
I would say that Loft is close to a Naish (more busy) and KA is more like an NP (a little dead, but still fast). I prefer the busier style myself.

andersbq.com



What do you mean by "busy" and "dead"?


The draft moving around ( Center of effort ) . Busy

No draft movement or locked in. Dead......fast




That can't be what he means - IMHO the blade feels much more stable than the koncept as the Blade has it's COE much lower down and has a lower boom to luff ratio (i.e. longer boom shorter luff). They're definitely not as twitchy as the Koncepts prior to locking them down.

Gaz45
QLD, 113 posts
5 May 2011 7:46PM
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sausage said...

kato said...

Windxtasy said...

andersbq said...

The Loft and the KA:s are both fast, but very different sails.
I would say that Loft is close to a Naish (more busy) and KA is more like an NP (a little dead, but still fast). I prefer the busier style myself.

andersbq.com



What do you mean by "busy" and "dead"?


The draft moving around ( Center of effort ) . Busy

No draft movement or locked in. Dead......fast




That can't be what he means - IMHO the blade feels much more stable than the koncept as the Blade has it's COE much lower down and has a lower boom to luff ratio (i.e. longer boom shorter luff). They're definitely not as twitchy as the Koncepts prior to locking them down.


Snags - Maybe you should have tried a different mast, preferably a constant curve

einzius
9 posts
5 May 2011 9:21PM
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Hi,

Tnx for replying. What is the windrange for Blade 6.2 and for Koncept 6.6 ?

Can these both sails take other suppliers masts also?

I have impression that Neilpryde RS:6 is a more vulnerable than Blade and Koncept. Is that true? In my country RS sails tend to get damaged often.

vando
QLD, 3418 posts
5 May 2011 11:46PM
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kato said...

Windxtasy said...

andersbq said...

The Loft and the KA:s are both fast, but very different sails.
I would say that Loft is close to a Naish (more busy) and KA is more like an NP (a little dead, but still fast). I prefer the busier style myself.

andersbq.com



What do you mean by "busy" and "dead"?


The draft moving around ( Center of effort ) . Busy

No draft movement or locked in. Dead......fast




I Think it has more to do with the position of the draft forward/back ect.
Hey Kato your sails only have to go one way down there

kato
VIC, 3506 posts
5 May 2011 11:47PM
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einzius said...

Hi,

Tnx for replying. What is the windrange for Blade 6.2 and for Koncept 6.6 ?

Can these both sails take other suppliers masts also?

I have impression that Neilpryde RS:6 is a more vulnerable than Blade and Koncept. Is that true? In my country RS sails tend to get damaged often.


Carn,t comment on the blade but the Ka 6.6 is good for up to 25+kts for me (80kg),as for masts i,ve used Np x6 and North drops but the Ka mast will work as designed by Amac. The RS:6 are like most moden sails,look after them and they will last, but all these type of sails are designed to go fast not last for ever. Demo both if you can.

kato
VIC, 3506 posts
5 May 2011 11:50PM
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vando said...
I Think it has more to do with the position of the draft forward/back ect.
Hey Kato your sails only have to go one way down there


Yep and loving it

vando
QLD, 3418 posts
5 May 2011 11:55PM
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einzius said...

Hi,

Tnx for replying. What is the windrange for Blade 6.2 and for Koncept 6.6 ?

Can these both sails take other suppliers masts also?

I have impression that Neilpryde RS:6 is a more vulnerable than Blade and Koncept. Is that true? In my country RS sails tend to get damaged often.


The Blades from 2010 onwards can rig on both RDM and SDM mast. The 2011 comes with both types on cams. From what Ive seen and tried they work well with constant curve to flextop mast. prior to 2010 Blades only rig on RDM mast.


Range wise depends on your weight and skill level for me 85kg 6.2 20-30 generally and up to 35 depending on the water conditions.


wkcwarrior
371 posts
5 May 2011 10:21PM
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B L A D E

redsurfbus
304 posts
5 May 2011 10:23PM
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Have you considered a Tushingham x15?
Light, very tunable and great range. I use a 7m in 16-30knots, at the lower end they are easy to pump and the higher end stable and easy to pin down.

einzius
9 posts
5 May 2011 10:31PM
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Hi,

I have looked in to it. I don´t have good offer for Tushingham X-15.

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
5 May 2011 10:52PM
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Mr Love recently told me:
"The Koncept requires a true Constant curve to Combi Curve mast. Masts that will work fine with the Koncept will be KA, Powerex, North, most likely Loft, Ezzy and Tushingham but I have no experience with them. I know people using Neil Pryde X6 and X3 who are happy but again I have no first hand experience with them."

I use an X3 on my 5.8 Koncept and it works nicely.

einzius
9 posts
6 May 2011 1:06AM
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What about Blade 2008 size 6.2? I heard a rumour That Blades before 2009 are not that good?

I have an offer for a blade with 65% mast. Is that low content carbon OK ?

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
6 May 2011 9:11AM
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If you want a softer sail that's a lighter in the hands (compared to RS 6), then a NP RS Slalom may be worh looking at as well.

einzius
9 posts
7 May 2011 12:01AM
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Can you guys comment on Blade 2008 size 6.2? I heard a rumour That Blades before 2009 are not that good?

I have an offer for a blade with 65% mast. Is that low content carbon OK ?

Right now I have decided to go whether for Koncept 6.4 2010 or Blade 2008 6.2.



MichielR
12 posts
7 May 2011 2:01AM
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In 2007 and 2008 the 6.2 was probably the best one out of the range. I don't think this sail will disappoint you. The 65% mast should be ok. But to be honest, i have never sailed a blade with less then 100% masts.



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"Which GPSS sail to buy: Vapor/Blade/Koncept/RS:6 ?" started by einzius