Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

To sand or to polish - that is the question

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Created by sausage > 9 months ago, 29 May 2009
sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
30 May 2009 12:44AM
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Interesting thread on Starboard forum regarding sanded bottom surfaces and fins versus polished surfaces.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5754

Thoughts anyone.

BTW - I'm sanded surface orientated.........not that there's anything wrong with that

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
30 May 2009 1:50AM
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sausage said...

Interesting thread on Starboard forum regarding sanded bottom surfaces and fins versus polished surfaces.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5754

Thoughts anyone.

BTW - I'm sanded surface orientated.........not that there's anything wrong with that


Yep. Sand or Polish. Um... That is the answer as well!

sailpilot
QLD, 785 posts
30 May 2009 2:06AM
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sausage said...

Interesting thread on Starboard forum regarding sanded bottom surfaces and fins versus polished surfaces.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5754

Thoughts anyone.

BTW - I'm sanded surface orientated.........not that there's anything wrong with that


Ha, I'd bank on you as a right royal polisher snags!

Interestingly the CA website alludes to the polished surface being better as it stays cleaner longer and that's apparently important. I'm too slow to give any real input tho, maybe some of the 40knot club could share their thoughts??

TonyC
WA, 410 posts
30 May 2009 12:52AM
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Very interesting topic - be great to hear what slowboat and others (practical and theoretical experts) have to say. Reading all the linked forums and articles it would appear the fins should always be sanded with the cleanest (even polished) leading edge. Then the choice appears to depend on planing or displacement mode. If you intend to be sub-planing the majority of the time on a real displacement board then highly polished is the way to go (*board serenity, old Div2 etc). But as we all aim to be planing as fast as possible all of the time then sanded appears to be the best solution as there will always be the water air mix occurring at the surface.

I remember back to my youth sailing days - we spent a lot of time polishing the bottoms of the 420's and other dinghies and Etchells, F15's etc - partly psyche (confidence boats as prepared as possible) as one of the articles refers. But maybe in slower dinghies like the 420's and keel boats (even sports boats like Melges 24) the speed difference would be greater in favour of polished in displacement mode compared to the minor loss of polished surfaces when planing. Wonder what the fast skiffs (18's, 14's, 12's) do nowadays?

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
30 May 2009 10:06AM
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From observation, I would say that most guys at Sandy Point sand hulls and polish fins. I pay a lot more attention to my fins that the bottom of the board but I like to give the board a quick wipe over with W&D before a big session just to make sure it is clean.
But hey, after you drag your fin through the sand once, at least the tip is no longer polished!

choco
SA, 4175 posts
30 May 2009 9:42AM
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sailquik said...

From observation, I would say that most guys at Sandy Point sand hulls and polish fins. I pay a lot more attention to my fins that the bottom of the board but I like to give the board a quick wipe over with W&D before a big session just to make sure it is clean.
But hey, after you drag your fin through the sand once, at least the tip is no longer polished!


With water hitting the underside of the board at 80+kmh the bottom of the board would be spotless after one run.
There are to many things going on during a run and i don't think it would make any difference wether bottom is polished or not.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
30 May 2009 10:59AM
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sailquik said...

I like to give the board a quick wipe over with W&D before a big session just to make sure it is clean.



have you used the foam sanding pads, for some reason they don't scratch even if you use them dry

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
30 May 2009 2:31PM
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My small slalom board was polished to start with. As an experiment I did a few GPS runs polished, then went back to the beach and sanded it down with 600. Did a few more runs...not very scientific but I didn't see a difference.

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
30 May 2009 2:37PM
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what about sanding the leading edge of the fin and polishing the aft section?

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
30 May 2009 3:12PM
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choco said...


With water hitting the underside of the board at 80+kmh the bottom of the board would be spotless after one run.
There are to many things going on during a run and i don't think it would make any difference wether bottom is polished or not.



Actually, this does not seem to be the case for me. Organic crap and dirt can take a lot to remove from the board. I have turned a speed board over halfway through a session and still seen the dirt stuck to the bottom.
But my boards don't live in bags either. Even sitting on the trailer in my shed or in the backyard they pick up a lot of crap.

firiebob
WA, 3172 posts
30 May 2009 4:56PM
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sailpilot said...

sausage said...

Interesting thread on Starboard forum regarding sanded bottom surfaces and fins versus polished surfaces.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5754

Thoughts anyone.

BTW - I'm sanded surface orientated.........not that there's anything wrong with that


Ha, I'd bank on you as a right royal polisher snags!



And this is from someone who is going to spend a couple of romantic evenings on a tropical island with Snags

sailpilot
QLD, 785 posts
30 May 2009 11:26PM
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.....Oops, well I wasn't going to help

Goo Screw
VIC, 269 posts
31 May 2009 6:20PM
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I like to use 600 grit wet&dry on the board and anything up to 2500 grit or tooth paste(which acts as a fine cutting compound) on my fins.
Last time I put some car wax over my KA assy 20 fin I found my self sliding on the back of my head at 42 knots

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
31 May 2009 7:25PM
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firiebob said...

sailpilot said...

sausage said...

Interesting thread on Starboard forum regarding sanded bottom surfaces and fins versus polished surfaces.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5754

Thoughts anyone.

BTW - I'm sanded surface orientated.........not that there's anything wrong with that


Ha, I'd bank on you as a right royal polisher snags!



And this is from someone who is going to spend a couple of romantic evenings on a tropical island with Snags




It'll be all above board - we're sleeping head to toe

So what's the consensus - sand the board, polish the fins or sand both. I gather from Gooscrew's response a super polished fin is a no no.

Also, is it prudent to fill in some of those larger scratches on the fin with epoxy and then sand so as not to overly alter the original profile when sanding out.

seahorse
QLD, 133 posts
1 Jun 2009 9:21AM
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Can you elaborate a bit Goo Screw - is tooth paste a non water repelling cutting agent. Are you suggesting the wax in polish makes the fin shed water leading to earlier spin out? I guess it may make sense?
What about expanding on the sanding method - circular - straight? Do you put the fin in a vice?
Best method for filling nicks in the fin - got a big dent in my TM45 to fix!

seahorse
QLD, 133 posts
1 Jun 2009 9:26AM
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Just on another thought. About 8 years ago I got told by a guy in a shop that all the pros sand their fins in the direction of water flow with something like 600 grit. The reason he gave was that the little grooves that a formed act as a bit of a barrier to ventilation propagating down the foil. Something like a fence if you remember those tyronsea fins from yesteryear. My experience with the technique was that it did help - I had some fins that I just didn't like - sanded them like this and then found them acceptable. Any comments - others tried this method?

choco
SA, 4175 posts
1 Jun 2009 9:01AM
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I have polished some of my fins to a mirror finish with a buffing wheel and cutting compound.
There is no real noticeable difference in speeed and no spinout with the polished fins.

Goo Screw
VIC, 269 posts
1 Jun 2009 7:40PM
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seahorse said...

Can you elaborate a bit Goo Screw - is tooth paste a non water repelling cutting agent. Are you suggesting the wax in polish makes the fin shed water leading to earlier spin out? I guess it may make sense?
What about expanding on the sanding method - circular - straight? Do you put the fin in a vice?
Best method for filling nicks in the fin - got a big dent in my TM45 to fix!


I take it that the cheap no name brand tooth paste I use is just a cutting compound and does not leave a wax or water repelling coating.
The way I see it is that sanding with wet&dry or a cutting compound is "a microground finish" which means water sticks to it.
I tried Mr.Shean on the bottom of my speed board for a while and that really made the beads of water roll off - but I reckon it feels stickier in the glassy water.
I think the main reason people sand fins in a circular motion is to get an even finish in all directions.Then once it is a flowing even finish with no high or low spots you could give it a rub in the same direction as water flow with some heavy grit paper.
My best symmetric speed fin (a deboichet 22 upwind) looks like it was rubbed at the factory with something like 180 grit in direction of flow,I love this fin it works a treat.
When I fill scratches in my fins I use spray putty(masking it and keeping it as local as possible) because it is softer than the fin resin.Then using a fine grit sandpaper I try to sand as little as possible out of the oroiginal fin shape.

WARNING:I am a plumber not a fin shaping master craftsman,such as Mal Wright or Chris Lockwood,so my finish may end up noticeably rougher.

kato
VIC, 3507 posts
1 Jun 2009 8:19PM
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seahorse said...

Can you elaborate a bit Goo Screw - is tooth paste a non water repelling cutting agent. Are you suggesting the wax in polish makes the fin shed water leading to earlier spin out? I guess it may make sense?
What about expanding on the sanding method - circular - straight? Do you put the fin in a vice?
Best method for filling nicks in the fin - got a big dent in my TM45 to fix!

John , STOP HITTING STUFF but if you have to fix a fin try this.Flair around the dent first,fill it with epoxy and then spray the fin with some paint. You,ll then know when you start sanding into the original fin shape. I clamp a piece of 90x 45 HW into the vice and then clamp the fin to the wood. Its easier to sand across the fin this way.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
1 Jun 2009 8:54PM
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kato said...

seahorse said...

Can you elaborate a bit Goo Screw - is tooth paste a non water repelling cutting agent. Are you suggesting the wax in polish makes the fin shed water leading to earlier spin out? I guess it may make sense?
What about expanding on the sanding method - circular - straight? Do you put the fin in a vice?
Best method for filling nicks in the fin - got a big dent in my TM45 to fix!

John , STOP HITTING STUFF but if you have to fix a fin try this.Flair around the dent first,fill it with epoxy and then spray the fin with some paint. You,ll then know when you start sanding into the original fin shape. I clamp a piece of 90x 45 HW into the vice and then clamp the fin to the wood. Its easier to sand across the fin this way.


have you guys heard of blade putty or stop putty it you can get it from autopro and it's in a tube it drys and can be sanded in anout 30min

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
1 Jun 2009 9:59PM
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One of the most meticulous fin finishers I have seen is Mal Wright. His basic technique is to use fine wet and dry on a aluminum sanding block and carefully sand in the direction of the water flow across the chord of the fin. He will use panel beaters spray putty paint to build up a light coat on the fin and then carefully sand it with the block until it has virtually all gone. As I understand it, the idea is not to cut into the original shape of the fin except to perhaps fair any slightly high spots. Another light coat and then a light fine sanding and polish usually finishes it off.
I try to follow the same procedure but I admit that I have less patience than Mal.
When I have a good fine W&D finish I usually use cutting compound car polish to hand buff the fin to a mirror shine. The soft spray putty is brilliant for this and takes a high gloss finish with minimal effort.
One advantage (or disadvantage) is that if there is the slightest scratch or blemish on the fin, the high gloss shows it up like a major flaw.

From my observations I believe Chris Lockwood follows a similar technique to the fine wet and dry point. Not sure if he polishes the fins, but if he doesn't he certainly gets them to close to a gloss with very fine W&D.

Magnus8
QLD, 366 posts
1 Jun 2009 10:17PM
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When repairing small or large scratches and dings from my fins I follow a slightly different method. I get out my 60 grit and sand down the rest of the fin until the blemish blends in. I then finish it off with some 220 & 600 wet and dry.

As the fin gets a little smaller each time, it becomes noticably faster

Hope this helps

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
1 Jun 2009 10:35PM
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stop putty it's in a tube

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
2 Jun 2009 1:41AM
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keef said...

stop putty it's in a tube



Geeze, I wish I could knock out a board that quick!!



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"To sand or to polish - that is the question" started by sausage