Yesterday it must have been gusting to 35 knts. Once I had my harness lines adjusted perfectly the conditions were managable on flat water, we wont talk about gybing though. But on the run back to the launch spot through the middle of the bay, I had a hell of time just sailing in a straight line. The sail was still managable but keeping the board trimmed so it would'nt spin out and keeping speed down so I did'nt jump every chop was the issue. As Hardie said, this seems to be a skill mastered by the few elite. Anyone got any tips 
Carefully
Lower the boom a touch as it allows your knees to bend a bit and not have you standing so upright.
Down haul the sail to the max (and then a bit more)
DO NOT out haul the sail to the max!!!
If the front of the board is coming up shift the mast foot forward a touch.
quote:
Originally posted by elmo
DO NOT out haul the sail to the max!!!
Don't slow down, if you do, you must be sheeting out or standing more upright with less weight on the harness lines, not good.
If you have too, squat down, grit teeth and squint eyes 
I gotta agree with Nebs, sorry Elmo, but if there is a reason let me know, I'm no rocket scientist 
Out hauling the sail to the max shifts the effort further back away from the mast loading up your back hand more.
If you don't out haul to the max you have a bit more curve at the front of the sail and thus the power is also at the front closer to the mast.
I generally run my RS4's 2-4cm's below max out haul.
The main thin is having lots of downhaul, it gets the power down low.
Ok, I now see what ya mean. I was thinking recommended max, not over outhauling, your dead right.
I'm still not convinced, I'll have to do some experiments. Fortunately the conditions at the moment let us (well qld'ers at least) try it out in real life 
Think Elmo means flattening the sail right out, never a good thing. But I also don't think you can generalise some sails hold there shape much better than others, increasing outhaul doesn't necessarily move the shape back in all sails just cause it does in a NP. I'm fairly sure the Avalon Sail co rehack, doesn't, the max shape is at about 1/3 it just gets less with more downhaul and outhaul.
But saying that Bugsy's instructions for flattening the sail, is more downhaul, then adjust outhaul to be just positive.
quote:
Originally posted by nebbian
I'm still not convinced, I'll have to do some experiments. Fortunately the conditions at the moment let us (well qld'ers at least) try it out in real life
Hang on
Try puting your harness lines further back and apart on the side your smashing back into the chop on,so while your slogging upwind you can rest your arms and get them ready for the spint downwind again.
If you have a flat sail raked back and mast track forward and then sheet out you have an aerofoil attatched to the front part of your board. Tailwalk.. spinout.. crash.. ouch.
Try it with a triangle of carboard held vertically and rotate it about the long side (mast).
Elmo's right. Low down grunt with lots of twist = fast.
quote:
Originally posted by elmoquote:
Originally posted by nebbian
I'm still not convinced, I'll have to do some experiments. Fortunately the conditions at the moment let us (well qld'ers at least) try it out in real life
I think you may be surprised, hopefully not disappointed
And as the Fireybob fella put
Lean back, grit teeth, close eyes
As soon as you start backing of you stand up, your sail becomes more loaded up with power making it a lot more work to hang onto and more likely to throw you.
Ride it like you mean it! you may get a rather big shock when the sphincter clenching run just annihilates your PB's
Speed sailing is sailing overpowered
Some times only fin in water, other times Mineral in water
I have found by that if i have too much out haul the sail is unstable. Where if i have lots downhaul and bugger all outhaul the sail seems to just sit and the power is locked in just behindn the mast so.
So now when i know i will be fully lit i still have just enough outhaul to keep the sail off the boom.
The other thing i have found is DONT BACK OFF, the second you try and back off you get pulled onto your toes and from there its all down hill. just sit down int he harness and hang onnnnnn!!!!!!!
My old race sails had bugger all out haul, flat to start with. With my Ezzy, a bit of out haul doesn't hurt when the winds up, but it's got a bit of draft to start with.
And yep, mobs of downhaul when it's windy, not enough is the biggest rigging fault you'll see.
Well I'm sure I had my sail set correctly Elmo, I even had a Vando check, but yes I was a scardy cat and stood upright and backed off. I find sailing Redcliffe in open Moreton Bay really easy, even easier as the wind gets stronger as the swell is big and rolling, and relatively smooth in between, its just the small trough like stuff that scares me, its like the biggest corrugated road you can find. Well I'll guess I'll just have to hunker down and see what happens. Besides just survival, this is a really important skill for speed sailing as often the conditions are far from perfect.
Haggar had to have a good think about this as its been a long time since a good blow. I,ve used pretty much all thats been sugested.If its speed sailing ,lots of twist and not too much outhaul.Grit ya teeth and go broard. If its bump and crash,survival stuff (40 to 60kts+) then lots more outhaul.Yes it does make the sail twitchy and no bottom end grunt but less crashes. Also watch for gusts and bear up into the wind if you can. Makes them a little less severe.As for the chop, watch the swell/chop patten and try and run across/upwind @ about 30deg to the swell.(Bit hard to explain on paper).Also look at your fin,some times something wavey works better than your slalom. Lowering the boom can move your body too far away from your board,making you spinout or it can put more weight on the board,keeping it on the water. I,ve used both methods to stay upright depending on what board I,m using.Haggar it does get easier with practice and I,m very very jealous...enjoy
Two words BIG BALLS
But seriously it’s all experience the more you do it the easier it gets. You need to have allot of faith in your fin too. On the outhaul thing it’s really dependant on the sail and where the draft is.
Ta vando
Haggar,
my 20 cents worth.
Every sail is different and outhaul/downhaul combination is something you just need to gain experience with.
My general experience is that more downhaul is better than more ourhaul. Flatter sails in my experience are more 'twitchy' and this can create its own set of problems - better to be able to 'lean' into the sail to get the power rather than an on/off switch.
Try jumping some chop whe you are heading up wind - sometimes I find this easier than navigating the swell - especially the short sharp chop you get in Moreton Bay. Drop the back leg to keep the air minimal - with a soft landing.
Sheeting out an keeping your weight over the centre of the board can help if you are overpowered.
- J
i really dont have much idea but here are some of the points i use generally, (but not as a rule) as all conditions vary some what as Haggar has mentioned. 40 knots in flat water is alot easier to handle than 30 knots in the open ocean.to small a fin in chop will lead to more chances of high speed slides as there is not much fin in the water when the board leaves the water,flat water on the other hand should handle a smaller fin for the same breeze strength.
lots of down haul i guess would be good for lots of twist.only just enough outhaul to take the slop out of the clew, too much outhaul will take too much camber from the sail allowing the sail to back wind easier as the draft will wander aft in the gusts resulting in the old face slam to windward scenario.
mast step forward more than normal to help keep the board in the water and help engage the rais through the gybe.
as the mast goes forward you generally have to adjust the boom upwards to maintain comfort and controll how ever its generally good to keep the boom down slightly according to the experts.
the other tips i find useful are wearing things like helmets and lately i have started using a life vest (np model in maxed out conditions) which gives protection to the ribs and floats you higher in the water for water starts and rests etc.
the other thing i have found in max conditions in big chop is the difficulty of keeping the board from launching into jumps.. some times you just got to go with the flow,when you get air a straight rear leg will kill the hieght of the jump and tend to keep the body over the board instead of to the side which on landing can end up in a swim how ever landing a jump with the leg straight will also end up in a slide if you land sideways so i guess its a fine line.
basically vando has summed it up well..its really a case of getting as much time on the water as possible.
f..k that was along winded piece of bull sh.t...
i think one of the problems we all have in qld except for a few is that when i gets over 25 knots we tend to only use wave sails.
a 4.2m-5m wave sail hasn't got the goods compared to a small race sail. the cambers, high downhaul etc of the race sail keep everything in check. and with more stability in the rig you get more chance to keep the board under control
i find that with race gear you can carry 1-1.5m more sail than a wave sail. all the downhaul and or outhaul in the world isn't goin to help when on oversized wave kit in strong winds. still lots of downhaul and slight outhaul is good. you can see when you rig your sail that as you increase the outhaul the twist dissappears. less outhaul more twist.
sailing powered up and flat out in 30-40 knots really requires a race sail.
haggar.
i love the chop at VP. it is the only place in brissy that offers it. it's a killer. lake catharabah is the same on the sunshine coast.
Wow, lots of advise here. Don't worry haggar I can't sail fast in wild conditions either. No.1 reason: practice, we simply don't have windy enough conditions often enough here.
Gestalt I disagree with everything you have typed, apart from the holding a bigger race sail than wave sail bit.
Hey Haggar, that run to the strip got pretty rough when we were down in May, interesting at times so Wednesday must have been scary. I think what most thinks came down to this week is having the right size gear, which I don't for these conditions.
One simple thing you can do to handle chop is build up leg strenth. The stronger they are the more chop you can handle. Get on the mountain bike and pound out some miles going uphill, best thing I've ever done to improve my sailing. Most regular windsurfers have got the upper body strength to handle the rig, it's leg strenth that controls the board and keeping the fin working and flying over the chop. You want to skim over the top rather than drive into the chop, lift with your front foot and push down on your toes with your back foot and get your weight away from the board by dropping the boom so you can hike out further. Here in the Gorge we have some of the nastiest chop you'll ever encounter, learn to sail fast in this stuff and you'll be fast everywhere else.
mk...
mate i don't mind being wrong but please let me know what you reckon so i can at least have the chance to change my opinion. 
