Are they common from holding big sails etc? I'm out of action at the moment. I think mine is mostly work and mobile phone related but windsurfing probably played its part.
I'm getting treatment but I'm posting this out of curiosity to see if this is a common problem , if others have had issues, what sort of problems and how long it took them to get back to speed..mainly injuries not caused by impact..
Funny you should mention shoulder injuries and big sails in the same sentence, Sue. The times I've dislocated shoulders is when I've been using a "big" sail, which for me means around 6m or so, in fairly benign conditions. I'm usually sailing on something 5.4 or smaller.
Dislocations occur when I'm gybing, it's always the sheet arm, and it's when I'm stuffing up the gybe, leaning too far into it, and trying to sheet the sail in to correct. I end up leaning out on the extended arm, body putting a downward force which the socket can't support. i was told there was an audible pop the last time I did it a few years back. Could have been a snap actually- it broke some bone off the side of the normally shallow socket (bony Bankart lesion).
I've had 3 surgeries now, takes about 6 months to get back on the water. Both seem pretty good now. I can lie on my back and put my arms over my head without feeling like they're going to drop out of their sockets. But I'll never really trust them.
I think the issue with big sails is that they move a lot slower, and it feels like you've got time to correct and sheet in, but because they're actually more powerful, I'm pulling against an insurmountable force. With smaller sails in higher wind, everything happens more quickly, so I either drop the sail, or can actually make the correction and sheet in and nail the gybe because the sail's more manoeuvrable.
My advice to you- give up work and put down the phone.
Hi. There are many different types of shoulder injuries, but as you have not mentioned dislocation, arthritis, or collar bones I am assuming its a rotator cuff injury. The two most common are long head of biceps tendonitis, and supraspinatus tendonitis. The long head of biceps tendonitis will give pain holding the arm outstretched in front of you or flexing the biceps. The supraspinatus will give pain lifting the arm out to the side and especially over shoulder height. Lifting anything over head is the biggest issue but even holding the arm out in front of you to use a computer mouse can cause or exacerbate it. Fortunately the usual pulling the boom towards you actions while windsurfing is relatively OK. Up hauling can be an issue, as can some movements requiring you to twist the arm. The biggest issue is probably lifting the board on and off the car.
What has worked for me is to rest it by avoiding using that arm to steer the car, or hold children etc. But also to be careful to hold the mouse etc in a ergonomic way, or swap hands (?? maybe holding a painting brush in your case, painting walls is certainly a big issue). A good 5min of stretches of the tendons at issue before windsurfing is important. The time I feel I'm most likely to flare it up is lifting the board onto the car. Work out alternatives.
You can have cortisone injection which definitely speed recovery, but if you have too many the tendons can rupture. The new technology of concentrating your own platelet serum as an injection works wonders for some but is expensive and doesn't always work.
I've found paddling SUP or kayak much worse for the shoulders than windsurfing.
So in summary don't give up windsurfing except in the most acute phases. Try to get your harness lines well balanced and always stretch before going out. Good luck and update us if you find any special solutions.
Oh sorry. Ok Just noticed the next person is talking dislocation. That's a different and big issue. To avoid what has happened to you anyone who has a dislocated shoulder should have an arthroscopic reconstruction as soon as possible after their first dislocation. Many people think that getting it snapped back in is all that is needed. But that snap out has torn the structures that help hold it in place. Then if you have more and more dislocations the whole thing gets harder and harder to hold in place. So there are alternative surgeries, but the issue is the fact that you have had lots of dislocations so its going to be hard to stop it dislocating. There have previously been forums arguing that private health insurance is a waste. Well in this example without the insurance you are much less likely to get the early reconstruction. And in advance Mikeys did have the early reconstruction, nothing is ever perfect, it just gives you the best chance.
Select to expand quoteMikeyS said..
Funny you should mention shoulder injuries and big sails in the same sentence, Sue. The times I've dislocated shoulders is when I've been using a "big" sail, which for me means around 6m or so, in fairly benign conditions. I'm usually sailing on something 5.4 or smaller.
Dislocations occur when I'm gybing, it's always the sheet arm, and it's when I'm stuffing up the gybe, leaning too far into it, and trying to sheet the sail in to correct. I end up leaning out on the extended arm, body putting a downward force which the socket can't support. i was told there was an audible pop the last time I did it a few years back. Could have been a snap actually- it broke some bone off the side of the normally shallow socket (bony Bankart lesion).
I've had 3 surgeries now, takes about 6 months to get back on the water. Both seem pretty good now. I can lie on my back and put my arms over my head without feeling like they're going to drop out of their sockets. But I'll never really trust them.
I think the issue with big sails is that they move a lot slower, and it feels like you've got time to correct and sheet in, but because they're actually more powerful, I'm pulling against an insurmountable force. With smaller sails in higher wind, everything happens more quickly, so I either drop the sail, or can actually make the correction and sheet in and nail the gybe because the sail's more manoeuvrable.
My advice to you- give up work and put down the phone.
Sounds nasty! Funny you say a 6m is big..my most used ones are 7.8 + 7m..I love it when I can get to a 6m..I think rather than trying to hold as big a sail as the guys I'll just have to focus more on getting better at getting going with smaller gear..Not sure if that will work in gusty winter conditions though..
My advice to you- give up work and put down the phone.
At the moment I can't do any work which is frustrating as I have a few portraits almost done and I'm itching to finish them..May be able to ease off the work next year..
Yep definitely eased off the phone - it only takes one small text and my shoulder and neck are wrecked again.
Select to expand quoteHeavy1 said..
Hi. There are many different types of shoulder injuries, but as you have not mentioned dislocation, arthritis, or collar bones I am assuming its a rotator cuff injury. The two most common are long head of biceps tendonitis, and supraspinatus tendonitis. The long head of biceps tendonitis will give pain holding the arm outstretched in front of you or flexing the biceps. The supraspinatus will give pain lifting the arm out to the side and especially over shoulder height. Lifting anything over head is the biggest issue but even holding the arm out in front of you to use a computer mouse can cause or exacerbate it. Fortunately the usual pulling the boom towards you actions while windsurfing is relatively OK. Up hauling can be an issue, as can some movements requiring you to twist the arm. The biggest issue is probably lifting the board on and off the car.
What has worked for me is to rest it by avoiding using that arm to steer the car, or hold children etc. But also to be careful to hold the mouse etc in a ergonomic way, or swap hands (?? maybe holding a painting brush in your case, painting walls is certainly a big issue). A good 5min of stretches of the tendons at issue before windsurfing is important. The time I feel I'm most likely to flare it up is lifting the board onto the car. Work out alternatives.
You can have cortisone injection which definitely speed recovery, but if you have too many the tendons can rupture. The new technology of concentrating your own platelet serum as an injection works wonders for some but is expensive and doesn't always work.
I've found paddling SUP or kayak much worse for the shoulders than windsurfing.
So in summary don't give up windsurfing except in the most acute phases. Try to get your harness lines well balanced and always stretch before going out. Good luck and update us if you find any special solutions.
My clavicle and surrounding tendons are inflamed so I'm trying not to use it ( hard due to the large number of muscles involved) + ice + exercises to improve my posture and stop my default habit of using those muscles when I shouldn't..
. Also taking herbal anti imflammatories. Due to an internal bleed last year from prescription ones I'm not allowed to use them again.
It has been 2 weeks so far and it's settled down although all I have to do is lean forward and reach or turn my head to get sharp pain..Keen to try and paint again but I know after 10 mins it will be all stirred up again.
Plan is to keep trying to not stir it up ( boring..zzz) and when ready start doing exercises to build me up..my biceps were like little rocks..now they've disappeared..
hoping for about 6 weeks ( insert praying icon)..
Grr looks like I miss the winter westerlies for the second year in a row..
I had shoulder problems for a while. I had a couple of days of cortizone injections and changed to an underhand grip and its all good.
Injured mine about 9 years ago. Scan showed torn supraspinatis,bicep tendonitis and burcosis. (I think). It hasn't cost me much time off he water but it will always be a problem and a weakness. Learn to live with it. Avoid sudden movements and jerking, avoid reaching overhead. I found lowering my boom a bit and using slightly shorter lines helped. Also I set up my lines slightly out of balance so I take a bit of weight on my good arm and next to nothing on the bad one. Cortisone into the shoulder joint worked for me, once shortly after the original injury and again a few years ago after tearing it again. I find I use my elbow alot more for movement and treat my shoulder like a wounded wing, especially when doing heavy work as its my dominant arm.
Good luck with the rehab and hope you get back out soon.
To answer your original question done mine on small wave gear in very strong winds both times. Don't have a problem with the 8.6 or 7.8, things happen alot slower.
Select to expand quoterogerswin said..
Injured mine about 9 years ago. Scan showed torn supraspinatis,bicep tendonitis and burcosis. (I think). It hasn't cost me much time off he water but it will always be a problem and a weakness. Learn to live with it. Avoid sudden movements and jerking, avoid reaching overhead. I found lowering my boom a bit and using slightly shorter lines helped. Also I set up my lines slightly out of balance so I take a bit of weight on my good arm and next to nothing on the bad one. Cortisone into the shoulder joint worked for me, once shortly after the original injury and again a few years ago after tearing it again. I find I use my elbow alot more for movement and treat my shoulder like a wounded wing, especially when doing heavy work as its my dominant arm.
Good luck with the rehab and hope you get back out soon.
To answer your original question done mine on small wave gear in very strong winds both times. Don't have a problem with the 8.6 or 7.8, things happen alot slower.
Interesting you saying the bigger gear isn't as big a problem as it's slower to react..
I suppose the weight of the big gear swinging around and popping the cams is an issue for me..I haven't had a planing sail since I fell to bits but I did do a non planing one. ( Not intentionally - it didn't happen.. ). I found the most painful bits were beachstarting and preparing to start / turning around in the shallows, standing swinging the big rig around and popping the cams..The actual hooked in sailing was ok. As I said though it wasn't a normal session.
Yep its the reaching up and jerking bits that hurt most. It will settle down but us windsurfers are buggers for getting out before we should.
Select to expand quoterogerswin said..
Yep its the reaching up and jerking bits that hurt most. It will settle down but us windsurfers are buggers for getting out before we should.
yep..
Select to expand quoteka43 said..
Sue, have you had an ultrasound??
Yep. I got the report to get a few people to have a look at it (chiro/ massage).
"There is supraspinatus tendinopathy without focal tear.
Marked right SC joint synovitus."
Also a few age related wear and tear in other places but I don't think they are affecting me much yet.. The joys of aging..
The inflammation is a bit better now I'm on the herbal anti imflammatories but I'll be cautious how long I stay on them.
The clavicle was all red and swollen initially and I've been having bad jaw , neck pain, tennis and golfers elbow in both arms on and off for over a month now but I just put up with it thinking it was stress / tooth related....
I should have seen the dr earlier.. ( they need an eye rolling icon on seabreeze )
ha, old age and windsurfing!,
we wonder why we hurt, forgot that we are not twenty anymore.
i know windsurfing full on since 14 now 49- the aches do get worse every year
hope you get better soon Sue.
Select to expand quotegeared4knots said..
i know windsurfing full on since 14 now 49- the aches do get worse every year
It does not have to be that way. I thought it had to when in was in my 40s. Now at 57, I sail longer with less pain. As we get older, we have to listen to our bodies more, and adjust our technique. Better technique can do wonders in reducing aches and pains. I thought I was using the harness and had a decent stance, but some world-class teachers disagreed. After focussing on this for a few years (still an ongoing process!) and getting the weight off my feet and onto the rig, the knee and hip pain I used to get is history. Long distance surfing helps a lot - you can get away with bad technique in a short session, but if you sail a few hours with no breaks, you have lots of time to see where you put to much pressure.
I am now sailing faster and better than when I was younger, and still learn lots of fun stuff. Of course, getting 150 sessions a year for the past 4-5 years helps . But my inspiration is a 78-old windsurfer I met a few years ago who freestyled better than everyone else in the 25-person camp. He had learned most of the stuff in the least 10 years - in his 70s!
I'm the wars at the moment. Just got the MRI scans (after ultra sound, and xray, which didn't quite pick up the problem). About 80% of my shoulder problem is a small tear in the subscapularis tendon. I originally did it twisting a pipe in the garden, then again back in June lifting my big windsurf bag onto the scanner on the way to Fiji in June - bad holiday - 10 days of wind out of 14- but had to sit on the beach.
It is getting better, might be ok in another month or two (5-6months) with rehab from the pyso. Not really worth surgical intervention. My point is make sure people have identified the problem correctly- it took three goes (US,Xray, MRI) before they got to ID the problem correctly.
Looking forward to Lake George this summer- if I manage to make it - just had a big wipe out on my MT bike yesterday - did my ribs - looks like I'm out for another 8-12 wks.
I've only twisted my ankle windsurfing, the rest of my injury's have been from other dumb s**t.
Take care out there
Select to expand quoteKJ said..
I'm the wars at the moment. Just got the MRI scans (after ultra sound, and xray, which didn't quite pick up the problem). About 80% of my shoulder problem is a small tear in the subscapularis tendon. I originally did it twisting a pipe in the garden, then again back in June lifting my big windsurf bag onto the scanner on the way to Fiji in June - bad holiday - 10 days of wind out of 14- but had to sit on the beach.
It is getting better, might be ok in another month or two (5-6months) with rehab from the pyso. Not really worth surgical intervention. My point is make sure people have identified the problem correctly- it took three goes (US,Xray, MRI) before they got to ID the problem correctly.
Looking forward to Lake George this summer- if I manage to make it - just had a big wipe out on my MT bike yesterday - did my ribs - looks like I'm out for another 8-12 wks.
I've only twisted my ankle windsurfing, the rest of my injury's have been from other dumb s**t.
Take care out there
Injuries suck..
I'd only just recovered from my broken ankle 15 months ago.....
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..geared4knots said..
i know windsurfing full on since 14 now 49- the aches do get worse every year
It does not have to be that way. I thought it had to when in was in my 40s. Now at 57, I sail longer with less pain. As we get older, we have to listen to our bodies more, and adjust our technique. Better technique can do wonders in reducing aches and pains. I thought I was using the harness and had a decent stance, but some world-class teachers disagreed. After focussing on this for a few years (still an ongoing process!) and getting the weight off my feet and onto the rig, the knee and hip pain I used to get is history. Long distance surfing helps a lot - you can get away with bad technique in a short session, but if you sail a few hours with no breaks, you have lots of time to see where you put to much pressure.
I am now sailing faster and better than when I was younger, and still learn lots of fun stuff. Of course, getting 150 sessions a year for the past 4-5 years helps . But my inspiration is a 78-old windsurfer I met a few years ago who freestyled better than everyone else in the 25-person camp. He had learned most of the stuff in the least 10 years - in his 70s!
Yes I'm going to work on my stance in the chop I'll get a go pro to help see what I'm doing.Now I don't have to be in protective mode for my ankle hopefully I can worry less and improve. Assuming this blasted shoulder gets better..
