A friend and I got GPS watches a while ago and while wavesailing, amuse ourselves by seeing how fast we can go each session. Just the instantaneous maximum speed - we'll typically bear away for a run or two out the back then give up as soon as we feel we've gone about as fast as we can.
Having no-one else to compare speeds with, I'm curious how our speeds compare, and how high we can expect to get in perfect conditions. I'm referring to full wave gear.
Our top speeds are:
On a typical day we can get to 22/23 knots out the back in the chop, regardless of wind strength, though I seem to go best in slightly above planing winds. Getting over 23 is rare. At these speeds I feel like I'm on the edge of control because of the chop (of course looking for briefly less choppy areas), though I'm not backing off, I'm pushing hard, but generally only for the few seconds to register a top speed. It feels like the board has a top speed and more wind doesn't help. In seriously overpowered winds we sometimes barely get to 20 knots, though that's partly from lack of trying.
Top speed ever is 27 knots, done once at a speed strip (at a wave beach) in nearly dead flat water with wind not much more than enough to plane. We've had some stronger gusts, where we feel fully powered/on the edge of control but 27 feels like about the limit.
I got 27 one other time, in well overpowered conditions on the inside of a wavebreak when I found a semi-smooth patch and powered full on for a few seconds (which surprised me at the time, we thought the watch might have been in "encouragement mode"). So in theory combining strong wind and smooth water could get us a few extra knots to break the 30 knot barrier, but on the other hand, 30 knots feels a long way off. (There's nothing special about 30, it just sounds like a good goal.)
What are others' experiences? How hard is it to crack 30 knots? What's the limit for wave gear?
Thanks for any thoughts.
P.S. For any wavesailors reading this, I was surprised at how much fun truly flat water is; if you haven't tried it, give it a go. Our speed strip usually has a one foot swell (the wind direction is nearly directly offshore to it), which doesn't often get in the way of the speed, but adds to the fun.
I did my ankle in on speed gear in a hell gust. When it got better I thought I'd take it a bit easy for my first session back on the water, so went out on my wave gear, aprox 80l board and 4.7 sail. Hit 31kts, but water was very flat, and I was well powered.
Select to expand quotewendell said..
A friend and I got GPS watches a while ago and while wavesailing, amuse ourselves by seeing how fast we can go each session. Just the instantaneous maximum speed - we'll typically bear away for a run or two out the back then give up as soon as we feel we've gone about as fast as we can.
Having no-one else to compare speeds with, I'm curious how our speeds compare, and how high we can expect to get in perfect conditions. I'm referring to full wave gear.
Our top speeds are:
On a typical day we can get to 22/23 knots out the back in the chop, regardless of wind strength, though I seem to go best in slightly above planing winds. Getting over 23 is rare. At these speeds I feel like I'm on the edge of control because of the chop (of course looking for briefly less choppy areas), though I'm not backing off, I'm pushing hard, but generally only for the few seconds to register a top speed. It feels like the board has a top speed and more wind doesn't help. In seriously overpowered winds we sometimes barely get to 20 knots, though that's partly from lack of trying.
Top speed ever is 27 knots, done once at a speed strip (at a wave beach) in nearly dead flat water with wind not much more than enough to plane. We've had some stronger gusts, where we feel fully powered/on the edge of control but 27 feels like about the limit.
I got 27 one other time, in well overpowered conditions on the inside of a wavebreak when I found a semi-smooth patch and powered full on for a few seconds (which surprised me at the time, we thought the watch might have been in "encouragement mode"). So in theory combining strong wind and smooth water could get us a few extra knots to break the 30 knot barrier, but on the other hand, 30 knots feels a long way off. (There's nothing special about 30, it just sounds like a good goal.)
What are others' experiences? How hard is it to crack 30 knots? What's the limit for wave gear?
Thanks for any thoughts.
P.S. For any wavesailors reading this, I was surprised at how much fun truly flat water is; if you haven't tried it, give it a go. Our speed strip usually has a one foot swell (the wind direction is nearly directly offshore to it), which doesn't often get in the way of the speed, but adds to the fun.
Well, there are videos out there where people claim to brake the 30 knots barrier with free-wave/wave gear. However I can't remember a claim that was not based on anything else but 2" max speed, or a go-pro "instant speed". And 2" max speed is a fun thing to look at, and it makes you feel good to hit that patch of water/wind that takes you above x knots, but it can also give a very biased view of what is really happening on the water.
My guess is that outside of speed strips wave gear (board+sail) can sustain maybe 25-27 knots, wave sail with a slalom board probably faster, although my experience with pure 3-4 battens wave sails (KS3, QU4D 2017-18) has been that they can collapse above a certain speed.
Is suppose the comp your having is with multi fins ? I would think a single fin would be fastest and a quad slowest , thruster in the middle ? Generally speaking as far as fins go ?
Best speed on the Windtech wavegear 85ltre in the middle of lake Macquarie is 26.7kts. I can get often get 23 - 25kts but by then the chops built and I don't want speed. 
. Those speeds feel fast on wavegear!
I think I've hit 27kts with an old 68ltre Starboard acid on Myall lakes..
When I first started speedsailing on flatwater I used wavegear. When I hit 33kts on my old 78ltre Tabou pocket wave at Budgy I decided it was time to get a slalom board. 
All speeds max 2 sec peak on an approved device.
I think the good guys have hit 40kts in flatwater?
Imax, I'm on a single fin, my friend is on a trifin (Fanatic stubby). Your theory about the relative speeds of different fins sounds right, so I thought my board would be quicker, but they seem the same - some days I'm quicker, some days he is, but we're always within about one knot of each other. I'm a bit lighter than him and tend to go better in lighter winds and vice versa. There could be other factors so we should test by swapping boards.
42 kts on a Starboard Aero at Sandy Point with a Spotty onboard. Dead flat water 
Epic to watch
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..>>>>>
although my experience with pure 3-4 battens wave sails (KS3, QU4D 2017-18) has been that they can collapse above a certain speed.
It's not so much the speed, but sheeting angle. without cams to hold the draft out, you rely on wind pressure.
Deep down wind it's very easy to oversheet, when this happens there's not enough wind pressure to hold sail shape, you either have to not go as deep and/or actively sheet out a bit.
And as to 10s, the average of my 5 best 10s runs that day, was 28.61 kts .
I no longer have the file to see what my best 10s run was, but it's got to be close to 30
Speed testing different setups by Steve Thorp of K4 fins.
www.k4fins.com/2017/08/28/fin-testing/
Select to expand quotewendell said..
Imax, I'm on a single fin, my friend is on a trifin (Fanatic stubby). Your theory about the relative speeds of different fins sounds right, so I thought my board would be quicker, but they seem the same - some days I'm quicker, some days he is, but we're always within about one knot of each other. I'm a bit lighter than him and tend to go better in lighter winds and vice versa. There could be other factors so we should test by swapping boards.
And your mate's side fins have tow in ?. It would be interesting to see his results if he runs a larger single stiff fin.
Max 33.07
5x10 AVG 31.39
www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=329327&uid=2574
Not in Spotty's league, but my best 2 sec is 30kts on a single fin free style wave board with a 6m Gator, in small chop and 20 to 25kts of wind. My mate on slalom gear got 35kts that day.
Select to expand quotekato said..
42 kts on a Starboard Aero at Sandy Point with a Spotty onboard. Dead flat water Epic to watch
Please share the video Kato?
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..kato said..
42 kts on a Starboard Aero at Sandy Point with a Spotty onboard. Dead flat water Epic to watch
Please share the video Kato?
No vid ,just memories
Select to expand quotejn1 said..
And your mate's side fins have tow in ?. It would be interesting to see his results if he runs a larger single stiff fin.
They appear to toe-in, just by looking at them, can't put a figure on it. We'll remove them and test it as a single fin this summer.
35 knots at Inverloch...Atomicsurf fusion 61, Atomicsurf shockwave 23 and 10 cm side fins, Ka Kamikaze 4.7 4 batten wave sail.
Curious about this topic and how to push wave gear faster.
We had an unusually strong day yesterday for here. I had to use my 4.4 freek but could have been on smaller gear. Started with my jp free wave 102 with a 28cm wave fin but found weeds to be an issue, and didn't have an appropriate weed fin so switched to my dyno 115 and makani ono weed wave 30cm.
The Dyno was much more controllable, but I was teetering on the edge of control. I'm not sure if it was stupid or not but I did a few attempts at aiming more downwind for speed but could not find a comfortable stance/trim and it felt like my sail would lose feel with just a little bit of downwind angle. Could not break past 23knots. I think weed drag was part of the issue, as I've gone faster on thrusters with a 5.6 freek but only slightly, like 24-25 knots max and that was in much flatter water thanks to a sandbar break. I'd really like to break into 30knots one way or another.
Would feel myself getting pulled up and over the board. Was trying to maintain body tension and get out more sideways but the gusts were intense. I don't think I've sailed in that kind of wind before and maintained control. Some guys said they were overpowered on 4.0s, another guy was out on a 4.7 but he was definitely a heavyweight compared to me (and I'm a little more than 90kg now). If I railed the board more it felt like it was going to go to space with the wind getting up under it, and that was with the small sail put forward of center by a bit. Not sure what else I could've done to go faster, but I pushed and pushed with my front toes and just felt myself losing it a bit.
As the guys here say, a very big element to going fast is control. I've done 33kts on my my WaveWands 80l wave board, with a 4.7 wave sail. But it was on dead flat water. my wave fins are raked a bit more than normal to cope with craypot lines across the break, so weed wasn't an issue. I was just well powered, and control wasn't an issue. So I think you need less wind to go fast.
Select to expand quotedecrepit said..
So I think you need less wind to go fast.
+1.
To be very fast in really strong winds, you need flat water and a lot of experience sailing in similar wind. You'll be fastest when you are comfortable on a speed run - at least until that big gust hits that gives you a few extra knots.
As much as I like the Freeks, they may be holding you back when looking for top speed. I've gotten better speeds on other (older) freestyle and wave sails. With a top-end oriented freeride sail, it's easy to pick up an extra knot or two.
As for getting pulled up over the board in gusts, the two things that would help are a more efficient sail (cams) and more downwind angle. The higher drag-to-lift ratio of a non-cambered sail means you get pulled up more in gusts. If you can go deep enough downwind (130 degrees or more), it's a lot easier to convert the extra power to speed ... and you have less power since the apparent wind is lower. But that requires either very flat water, or outstanding skills.
Your best bet to get 30 knots may be to find the flattest water you can find (like Grassy Point in Corpus Christi), and to get used to lots of power (think 1-2 sail sizes larger that you'd usually use). Then, check your GPS tracks: you'll probably see that you are not going nearly as deep as you think. For reference, here's a recent track were the speed runs were at about 130 degrees of the wind:
This was on speed gear in near-perfect conditions (30 knot gusts, 6.2 m race sail, very flat water), so it was quite fast. But the same idea applies to going fast on wave gear in less than perfect conditions.
Ahh, thank you both. Good points boardsurfr. You are correct, my angle downwind was no where near that deep. Unfortunately the flatter spot for us here was dead offshore with a large wind shadow that day. I'll have to wait for a different time in the season.
May try a larger cammed sail on not so big of a day as my smallest cammed sail is 7.0.
Way back in 2008 I went to Green Island with my mate, it was very windy. At first we tried for speed but it was a hell ride on slalom and speed gear, I gave up and Ben jumped on his wave gear and sail off to a reef for some wave sailing, on his way back he scored a 29kt Nm on a wave board with wave fin and a 4.2 wave sail.
www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2008-07-23&team=20
I did 35 with a Neil Pryde Search 5.0 wave sail, but it was on a single fin freeride board.
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
my angle downwind was no where near that deep. Unfortunately the flatter spot for us here was dead offshore with a large wind shadow that day.
Wind shadow is often an issue, unless you're at a super-weedy and/or very shallow spot. Sand bars tend to be less problematic than islands with greenery on top. In many "real world" spots, your best bet is to thread a path between the chop. But that limits how deep you can go, unless you have something like a point that makes changes the wave direction enough.
Here's a polar plot that shows a 10 knot speed gain when going from 90 to 130 degrees:
In the plots from better speedsailors who are faster on beam reaches, the difference can be a bit smaller. If they are really well powered, the top speed angles are often 10 or even 20 degrees deeper.
I remember back in the day,l was using a strapper wave board with a Slalom fin strapped to it.freeride sail 5mtr .l was at the old pond (Saftey bay).Wind was about 22 knots constant,dead flat water on the edge of the weed bank.l think l hit 27 knots,on a close Reach at 10 o'clock.
Many years ago I hit 40 knots on my Starboard Acid74 with KA Kaos 3.7m in a howling Easterly at Sandy point for a second or two. When a huge 35 knot gust hit I was able to bear away deeply on the very flat water behind the sand bar. The board just sat up on the last foot or so of it's narrow pintail and took off!! In that mode the area in the water is not much different from a speed board. 
I have the GPS track saved somewhere, and on GPSTC or GPS-SS.
Hydrosurf those conditions look nuking! When I was on a 4.4 last weekend there were not waves like that but chop was intense and that's when I was on the edge of control.
Ended up learning a lot in the process of writing this. I didn't know you could trim files in GPS Speedreader then export them to Google Earth. That made showing these (unimpressive) runs more clear, maybe it'll be useful for someone else too.
I was curious and loaded up my fastest session on wave gear into GPS Speedreader, which is not that fast compared to others here, looks to be 28.1mph (24.4knots/45.2kmh) if you believe my Fenix 6 (always debatable). Apparently that watch doesn't have doppler heading, so without doing some math I can't tell how much I beared away but you can see on the video it was barely noticeable and you can hear a little bit of speed increase before I slow down out of the gust. On the track you can see a little bit of bear away (sailing right to left or East to West) at the point I hit max. You can also see how little room there was.
Where I ran it was in this protected strip which often is mostly wind shadowed from this direction, but that day it worked out with my dyno 115 and 5.6 freek. Had thrusters at the time as I ended up playing in the B&J conditions more later.
This spot really only has about .3miles of room with the wind in this direction. There is far more room if it's coming more East. However, with this direction, there are a lot of shallow weeds blocking almost all the chop. If it's coming more from the East, there's more chop, but it's not too bad until you leave protection of the sand bar and enter the open bay, which slows me down.
I'm wondering if the best speed spot is where there are lots of weeds, but with offshore wind, where I can stack up a bigger sail and safely bear away without having to worry about being swept into the gulf or bay...
Most recently. This is flying down some pretty good chop with a dyno 115, thruster, and 5.0 blade.
Think the single fin may have been faster if I had put the mast base further forward. The thruster settled it down a lot w/ about .5-1cm extra forward mast base from center but I should've tried with a single too. It just felt like I had so much lift with a single. The Blade definitely felt more stable than the Freeks do going downwind.
Select to expand quoteShifu said..
Surely the amount of toe in on you side fins will be crucial?
0.1deg was the only thing holding me back from 30kts
31.4 knots on a Fanatic Freewave 104 and old Gaastra Grind 6.2. Long Reef, Sydney. Side to side off and pretty flat in between small waves.
