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KA sails -what sort of mast?

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Created by lordhowe > 9 months ago, 19 Nov 2008
lordhowe
NSW, 209 posts
19 Nov 2008 5:06PM
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Hi guys, do Ka sails rig on NP masts OK?

kato
VIC, 3506 posts
19 Nov 2008 6:16PM
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Yes,I,m using x6,s on some of my KA,s allows the head to twist off a little more.

lordhowe
NSW, 209 posts
19 Nov 2008 6:33PM
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so they're designed for a Flex Top mast?
Have you got the Koncepts or do you also have the Koyote?
I have an 08 X6.

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
19 Nov 2008 6:53PM
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X6 is not the perfect fit but OK. It depends a bit on the size as well. Larger sizes get a bit more mast specific due to more luff round, smaller sizes are more forgiving.
Koyote has less luff round than the Koncept so again a bit less mast specific.
They are not designed for a flex top , the KA masts are constant curve but at the flex top end of the constant curve bandwidth, if you get what I mean.
There are many sailors out there using KA,s on X6's successfully.

FormulaNova
WA, 15083 posts
19 Nov 2008 5:37PM
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So, what other brand masts will KA sails rig on okay, other than the KA supplied ones?

Were/are powerex masts suitable?

lordhowe
NSW, 209 posts
19 Nov 2008 8:42PM
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interested in a 5.3, no cam Koyote i guess. I'd really like to try some local gear. I think i saw that a 5.3 will set on a 400. Anyone have any thoughts?

25
WA, 319 posts
19 Nov 2008 7:22PM
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Fiberspar and Powerex are both pretty good in my view, as are Tushingham [which come out of the same factory as the KA masts].
Certainly the KA masts are the first pick!

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
19 Nov 2008 9:00PM
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the three masts i use are Powerex, KA and Art

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
19 Nov 2008 10:17PM
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Severne work fine as well as the above mentioned.

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
19 Nov 2008 10:27PM
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Lordhowe, The 5.3 Koyote is an excellent sail. I used the 08 alot last season and it was a real favorite. It,s extremely versatile with a big range and very fast. It's top end is amazing for a no cam, so stable.
Yes it does rig on a 400.
Regards Martin

lordhowe
NSW, 209 posts
19 Nov 2008 10:58PM
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thanks Martin. Sounds good. As you said before, in the smaller sizes you don't think the NP mast will be too much of a problem? I realise it would be less than ideal, but a guy has to draw some lines somewhere in the never ending gear stakes....I've always been really happy with Pryde sails, don't get me wrong but I kinda like the idea of trying local.

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
20 Nov 2008 11:37AM
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lordhowe, If you are not in a super hurry I will see if I can borrow a 400 X6 and rig it as it.
Regards Martin

lordhowe
NSW, 209 posts
20 Nov 2008 4:59PM
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Martin , definitely not in a hurry...that would be fantastic. Living on an island has it's shortcomings when one is in the 'research/tantric' stage of a purchase!
Cheers,
Tim

ka72
QLD, 581 posts
23 Nov 2008 8:38AM
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I agree with Martin, I have an 08 5.3m Koyote and I absolutely love it. Super fast and stable. I rig it on a KA 400 rdm mast and it works just great. Get one you will love it

lordhowe
NSW, 209 posts
23 Nov 2008 10:54AM
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Yeah they sound good, I'm just not sure there are any in the country available. Anyone got a lead?

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
24 Nov 2008 5:52PM
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Lordhowe,

I picked up a new 08 5.3 KA Koyote about five weeks ago which I have since sailed twice rigged on an NP 430 X6 std diameter mast (purchased new in 07). Going 'local' really appealed to me as well, the other sail brand I considered was Severne (WA bred designer). Did a lot of research before-hand including contacting KA designer with regards to X6 mast compatibility as well as getting some great help from 'mr love' at KA on Seabreeze forum as well as via personal email (refer to my forum topic: 'Opinions please - KA Kult & Severne Gator/Renegade', last post 4/10/08).

I previously used an 06 5.4 NP Excess which never really felt right even on the recommended (X6) mast. Man, what a difference the Koyote makes! I'm really blown away by the performance of this sail, feels like my board (85L Mistral freeride) has got a new lease of life when used with the Koyote (my other sails are an 06 Tush Lightning 6.0 and an 05 NP Combat 4.5). Biggest surprise though is the amount of bottom end power the Koyote has after being told by some that KA sails (in general) are more biased towards top-end handling/control than bottom end power (load of bull I think). I've used the 5.3 in both powered and marginal conditions and it appears to stay powered up even when there doesn't appear to be enough wind for a 5.3. Top end handling and control is also excellent. Most probably a better sail in all respects than what has been my favorite sail of all time, a 5.3 NP MPR (I've been trying to find a 5.3 which comes close to the MPR's all-round performance for many years).

Only one gripe: the boom cutout appears to be a bit low. I'm 178cms tall and rig my boom halfway between chest and shoulder height. The boom sits just below the top of the boom cutout and won't go much higher than this unless I raised the extension, which I don't really like doing for freeride sailing as it increases the gap between the foot of the sail and the deck.






Arnold
46 posts
27 Nov 2008 1:36PM
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KA sails perform just as badly on any mast, but my advice is to get a KA mast as this will ensure the life expectancy of your entire rig is greatly diminished which will allow you to buy something decent sooner.

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
28 Nov 2008 9:36PM
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Arnold said...

KA sails perform just as badly on any mast, but my advice is to get a KA mast as this will ensure the life expectancy of your entire rig is greatly diminished which will allow you to buy something decent sooner.


I'm intrigued Arnold, can you name some 'decent' sails that in your opinion would perform better than a KA Koyote?

Arnold
46 posts
30 Nov 2008 7:28AM
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GazMan said...

Arnold said...

KA sails perform just as badly on any mast, but my advice is to get a KA mast as this will ensure the life expectancy of your entire rig is greatly diminished which will allow you to buy something decent sooner.


I'm intrigued Arnold, can you name some 'decent' sails that in your opinion would perform better than a KA Koyote?


GazMan, any sail that has not been put together by an insane chimpanzee would perform better IMHO.

mathew
QLD, 2133 posts
30 Nov 2008 8:59AM
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Arnold said...
GazMan, any sail that has not been put together by an insane chimpanzee would perform better IMHO.


seems to be not so humble... since we as a species evolved from them, that would put every brand at a disadvantage.

If there is something specific you dont like about KA as a brand, build quality, sail performance, etc, how about you just say so.

Alex H
VIC, 19 posts
1 Dec 2008 2:39PM
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I have been using a 2007 KA Koyote 6.6m, I bought from a friend. It seems very fragile, maybe I have a bad batch of sail cloth, but I have already put a couple of small holes in the clear material, and I dont know how. Its a nice light feeling sail, and its goes along very nicely, just seems to be built light.

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
1 Dec 2008 3:21PM
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Alex, The 2007 Koyote was a Monofilm sail. 2008 onwards are 100% Xply construction.
Monofilm is less durable than Xply as it is prone to cracking if it gets continually creased while rigging or de-rigging, and if it does get a small tear it does not have the reinforcement to prevent the tear from becoming larger.
All films will deteriorate if exposed to excess UV , and again monofilm does not perform as well as Xply in this regard. As your sail is second hand it is difficult to know how much UV exposure it has had in its life time. Monofilm sails if treated properly will last for many years, but if it has been left in the direct sun a great deal the film will become more brittle, this is a reality for all sails.
The golden rule for all sails, try to minimize the creasing when rigging and unrigging and keep out of direct sunlight when not in use.

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
1 Dec 2008 4:56PM
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First time out on my new 08 5.3 Koyote a while ago, had a wipeout at speed and head butted the sail above the boom seriously hard (harder than I've ever connected with my gear in 25 years of windsurfing!). I managed to stretch the x-ply slightly leaving a dent in the material, though I'm sure that if I was using a monofilm sail (like my current 6.0) then I would have done considerably more damage to the sail! (I came off second best - injury to neck and collarbone).

Finally recovered from injuries and got out for a great blast on 5.3 Koyote last Saturday (using NP 430 X6 mast). Local wind observations said gusts up to 27 knots. Sail was quite controllable in strong gusts without getting backhanded, haven't sailed much this season so strong wind technique is a little rusty. More time on the water and sail will go even better.

Still can't believe how much bottom end power the sail has! For me, the Koyote delivers the wind range and performance I would have expected from a cambered sail, with the great benefit of it being 100% x-ply for durability.



GazMan
WA, 847 posts
1 Dec 2008 5:01PM
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By the way Arnold,

Are you capable of saying anything positive about any of the windsurfing gear you have used?

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
1 Dec 2008 6:53PM
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during the storm in QLD on saturday we had 30+ knots hit as a storm front came through.

our gear startedto get blown away. one of the guys picked up his board and the wind caught it and landed it fin first onto my Kult just below the boom.

it was a sharp pointer fin to not a wave fin and it dropped from a couple of feet in the air with force.

the guy apologized and quickly looked at my sail to make sure there was no damage.

i was a bit worried myself but there was nothing but a small impression the size of a finger print.

i smiled to him and said no worries it's a KA sail then picked up my gear and ran for cover.

my 2005 race sail still looks almost brand new and i have used it more than an other sail i have. it is a full mono sail and i've had some big offs in 20+knots of wind on the formula kit.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
1 Dec 2008 10:17PM
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i'm not sure why people complain about build quality of the sails.
...............................................
i really don't get what the bad comments are all about




They don't. The vocal very few (or one individual with many screen identities) is a troll who probably has links, real or imagined, with another brand. I favor the 'imagined' as I believe members of the industry would not engage in such low behaviour.

Don't feed the Troll!

Arnold
46 posts
2 Dec 2008 7:19AM
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GazMan said...

By the way Arnold,

Are you capable of saying anything positive about any of the windsurfing gear you have used?


Yes GazMan, I am. Should I start a thread on that subject? Or perhaps I could get my own category in the windsurfing forum, a category called "Ask Arnold" would be cool.

dieseagull
NSW, 225 posts
2 Dec 2008 10:56AM
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Hi Guys,

I have a 6.6 Koyote and a KA 430 RDM. I'm just wondering how rigging the sail on the RDM mast will affect the dynamics of the sail? This is my first sail so I've not had a lot of experience seeing how an RDM mast might change the shape of the sail.

@ Alex: my Koyote (a 2008 model which is made with xply) is a seriously strong sail. I've had a couple of stacks in the past where I've fallen onto the sail with my harness hook, hard enough to visibly dent the matierial (probably 3mm deep). It's still going strong.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
2 Dec 2008 11:43AM
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crazyjockey said...

Hi Guys,

I have a 6.6 Koyote and a KA 430 RDM. I'm just wondering how rigging the sail on the RDM mast will affect the dynamics of the sail? This is my first sail so I've not had a lot of experience seeing how an RDM mast might change the shape of the sail.

@ Alex: my Koyote (a 2008 model which is made with xply) is a seriously strong sail. I've had a couple of stacks in the past where I've fallen onto the sail with my harness hook, hard enough to visibly dent the matierial (probably 3mm deep). It's still going strong.




Hi Andrew, I have not tried that particular sail with the RDM (I use the sail but I don't have a 430-RDM to try it on at the moment). Generally speaking the RDM's have a slightly 'springier' feel than the SDM because they tend to be a bit softer in the lower half. The shape is pretty much the same as usually the slightly more rigged bend in the bottom half compensates for the reduced diameter of the mast. There will be subtle differences depending on the actual masts being compared but we have found in general that the RDM's work very well and are recommended on the smaller KA sails.

dieseagull
NSW, 225 posts
2 Dec 2008 5:52PM
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sailquik said...
Hi Andrew, I have not tried that particular sail with the RDM (I use the sail but I don't have a 430-RDM to try it on at the moment). Generally speaking the RDM's have a slightly 'springier' feel than the SDM because they tend to be a bit softer in the lower half. The shape is pretty much the same as usually the slightly more rigged bend in the bottom half compensates for the reduced diameter of the mast. There will be subtle differences depending on the actual masts being compared but we have found in general that the RDM's work very well and are recommended on the smaller KA sails.


Thanks for that info sailquik. Do you think the RDM mast would flatten out the front of the sail at all (the shape caused by the battens), and/or whether it would cause the sail to go slower than it would with the SDM mast?

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
2 Dec 2008 6:56PM
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Sorry mate, can't really give an accurate opinion as I have not tried it except to say that it should be able to be rigged with the same shape or very similar by adjusting downhaul and outhaul. Different trim affects speed on different angles to the wind so whether it would be 'faster' depends more on trim and the whole combination. I would be very surprised if the sail was 'slower' on an RDM when trimmed correctly and I suspect you might find that it feels more dynamic and lighter in the hands from my experience with other sizes.
BTW, much of the shape in this sail is determined by seam shaping as against the older way of simply using the differential between the luff curve and the mast bend. The battens just help to stabilise it. This is one of the reasons KA sails are not as mast sensitive as some other designs.

It seems there is more interest in using the medium size sails on RDM and this combination is one of the things on my list to test over summer.



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"KA sails -what sort of mast?" started by lordhowe