OK an executive decision has been made, and the Gaastra Vapour will go to the most improved Vmax from those who have posted a session with a 5 x 10 sec average.
The fastest 5 x 10 sec avegrage posted from may till July 31, will be the starting point. The end point will be Nov 30, and the fastest 5 x 10sec from Aug 1st till Nov 30. The difference between these times will be calculated as a percentage, and the person with the greatest percentage improvement from 31st of July to the 30th of November gets the Gaastra Vapour 6.0m!!
This is a way to recognise those that have competed, which is some of the feedback from the other dicussion.
Tell me what you think?
The only problem I have with this, is that now there's an incentive to cheat.
I don't know how to get around this, we might have to request tracks but then people could lend their GPS to a fast friend... or get a tow behind a speedboat or something...
Hmmmm...
Ideas?
Thanks for posting this idea hardie.
We really wanted to recognise the guys who get in and sail and post. Because the reality of speed sailing is the more you sail the faster you go!!
Hi Hardy what about the guys that havnt posted between May and July.
Also any improvment could be because of wind conditions rather then personal performance.
Wow I never thought about the fact that you could just lend your GPS to someone else. But whats their incentive is the slow guy going to share the sail with fast guy? It's up wo all team members to make sure that others don't cheat that is why two or more team members are supoosed to be present at a session.
Surely the idea is to sail a lot and post a lot. Not sit around till the 100 year storm comes along. Many guys live in Light wind areas so they might not get a decent blow the whole year. but it's about improving in the conditions you have an incremental improvement due to having people to comapre against and pushing yourself above your previous limit. If you haven't allready jumped on board with this concept then I think it's unlikely you will do a major improvement because it takes more than just good wind to go fast it takes lot's of practice.
quote:
Originally posted by nebbian
The only problem I have with this, is that now there's an incentive to cheat.
I don't know how to get around this, we might have to request tracks but then people could lend their GPS to a fast friend... or get a tow behind a speedboat or something...
Hmmmm...
Ideas?
quote:
Originally posted by nebbian
The only problem I have with this, is that now there's an incentive to cheat.
I don't know how to get around this, we might have to request tracks but then people could lend their GPS to a fast friend... or get a tow behind a speedboat or something...
Hmmmm...
Ideas?
Hardie - I think your idea is a good one. But, you may need to state up front what you will do in the event that you get a number of sailors with the same percentage improvement at the end which I think might be likely. Those sailors might need to go into a final draw for the prize.
Cheers
(Diva) Mickey
The interesting thing here is that it's a comp for teams but the prizes can really only be won by individuals yet of course we want to reward people for acheivement but not have the prize go to the Pro-sailor who might already have some form of sponsorship etc with another company. This has happened to us before with Wave comps where the prize ends up on Seabreeze for sale the very next day. That is why we wanted to give it to the most improved, not the fastest. I believe there should be some out of the hat prizes and some performance based prizes. I am still struglling to work out how we reward the winning team but we might come up with a perpetual trophy or something.
I'm happy with this idea Hardie, the sailors with the lest experience and gear, will have the best chance to improve. Maybe not fair for the fast guys who have little room for improvement, but I'd hope they'd be happy for an up and coming speedster to get the sail.
As for me, no chance, I've hit a brick wall where I sail. The joys of open ocean, at lest it's exciting 
quote:
Originally posted by Gybesports
The interesting thing here is that it's a comp for teams but the prizes can really only be won by individuals yet of course we want to reward people for acheivement but not have the prize go to the Pro-sailor who might already have some form of sponsorship etc with another company. This has happened to us before with Wave comps where the prize ends up on Seabreeze for sale the very next day. That is why we wanted to give it to the most improved, not the fastest. I believe there should be some out of the hat prizes and some performance based prizes. I am still struglling to work out how we reward the winning team but we might come up with a perpetual trophy or something.
quote:
Yes agree, Kato is building a Trophy for the comp, which will be perpetual.
"........the sailors with the lest experience and gear, will have the best chance to improve"
Not at all firiebob.
The Pit guys had not had a decent SWer before July 30. They will have before November for sure. Might as well send the sail over there now 'cause once they put their snowboards away it will be over.
Random draw may be fairer (though there is a chance that the winner may be sponsored by another brand).
I was just thinking:
Offering a prize to the most improved 5 x 10 will make everyone try harder to improve their 5 x 10, won't they? So this competition could be like "Hardie's Olympic Windsurfing Training School" -- entry is free, and you see the results at the end of it!
Or maybe I haven't had my coffee yet.
quote:
Originally posted by yoyo
"........the sailors with the lest experience and gear, will have the best chance to improve"
Not at all firiebob.
The Pit guys had not had a decent SWer before July 30. They will have before November for sure. Might as well send the sail over there now 'cause once they put their snowboards away it will be over.
Random draw may be fairer (though there is a chance that the winner may be sponsored by another brand).
boy nebbian, if only you had your job earlier and didn't make it to the 40 knot day at wello...... 
i'm backing team seq for the vapour....
this sunday looking good.
quote:
Originally posted by hardie
...because it would be unfair for a sponsored sailor to win the sail.
Can FUN be regulated out of a competition
Come on Gestalt,
It's a team effort! I'm backing you to win the Gaastra for us... I'll lend you my yellow bullet if you like, I've taught it to go 32 knots, so it's possible for you to get an 11.5% improvement... and since you're such a KA man you'd just have to give it to me 'cos I'm such a good bloke 
If everyone agrees that Hardie's scoring system is a good idea, it might be time for me to upgrade the website to calculate the most improved automatically.
Yes good points pugster, though never did I say that sponsored sailors would be inelligible, coz they are elligible to win it. It is more morally unfair that someone who gets given top race/speed sails for free or at cost, wins, when someone who may never afford to buy a top line sail wouldn't have a chance. And I made the point that the amateur probably has a greater chance of winning.
The rules stick.
I think the issue you have bought up which has merit, is about the expectations around "just entering" gave people a chance of winning as the prizes would be drawn at random. We seemed to have a lot of people complaining with the board, that many people hadn't even bothered to post a session, and it seemed unfair that they be included. So we thought why not try something for those that have bothered to post a session. But technically a case could be made for drawing the sail out of the hat? What do people want? And remember it is impossible for me to make everyone happy, whatever position I seem to take someone complains?
Heya Hardie, I wasn't suggesting you said sponsored sailors are inelligible. I was just using this as an example.
Expectations and perception are powerful things (you are the expert there, so I won't say anymore).
BTW, wouldn't want to be in your shoes hardie, having to make these decisions! For those that are upset, give him a break! Without the input from hardie (and nebs) there would be NO competition!
What is the motivation of those that are trying to exclude others Is this an attempt to shorten the odds for the BLOODY great prizes
Hardie, I think the idea of giving a prize to the most improved sailor is a fantastic idea, keep the faith and make an executive call. I note the sponsor supported this idea also, so if the sponsor and the chief organizer agree that should be good enough for the rest of us!!
I think this category introduces a personal performance aspect to what is otherwise a teams-oriented event. It provides incentive for sailors to get on the water and post some sessions, and try to max out their PB's. Also, as you rightly pointed out, the beginning speed sailors starting from a low base have the best chance to win because they are more likely to achieve large increases in performance, than the guns who are already posting high speeds.
Stick with the original idea, and don't let a few whingeing spoilsports deter you.
Pointman "...Hardie, I think the idea of giving a prize to the most improved sailor is a fantastic idea, keep the faith and make an executive call. I note the sponsor supported this idea also, so if the sponsor and the chief organizer agree that should be good enough for the rest of us!! "
Yep, maybe it would be best if Gybesport and Hardie make the call and give it to whoever they feel is the most deserving under whatever criteria they feel appropriate. They have suggested most improvement 5x10 but can I add "most posts" and "farthest distance" sailed. Perhaps a combination of all three.
Ok just to make sure everybody understands the prizes are given without any particular expectation or involvment only that the suggestion that somebody should be rewarded for improvement was made because it seems like a good idea. Not because we want to leverage the comp for our own purposes other than to get some exposure for the brands T1 and Gaastra -(gratuitous plug). I am dissapointed with anybody who has registered and not posted just to win the prizes. I think for all those who are competing it is mighty unfair not to compete. But it's not my comp this is just my own personal moral opinion.
Hardie my personal belief is that a most improved prise should be given but it's up to you! Sorry to put you in it!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt
boy nebbian, if only you had your job earlier and didn't make it to the 40 knot day at wello......
i'm backing team seq for the vapour....
this sunday looking good.
Hi Hardie what about a panel of judges, one from each state.
vote on a list of names that have been narrowed down.
ta vando
quote:
The fastest 5 x 10 sec avegrage posted from may till July 31, will be the starting point. The end point will be Nov 30, and the fastest 5 x 10sec from Aug 1st till Nov 30. The difference between these times will be calculated as a percentage, and the person with the greatest percentage improvement from 31st of July to the 30th of November gets the Gaastra Vapour 6.0m!!
I know its bit hard to feel sad about posting a 37
Lucky draw. "MOST IMPROVED" would only work if all teams had the same wind conditions for the 'before' and 'after' times. Someone who has had poor winds till now, and strong winds later in the year would improve heaps simply because of the weather, nothing to do with improving ability.
Thats my 2c worth!
Keep it simple Master Hardie, however you do it, is fine with me 
I'd bet most people didn't sign up for the prizes, the prizes are just icing on the cake.
Well there's a fair few legitimate points about not doing it as proposed and going back to the lucky draw? I'm still open, to ideas. But what I'm hearing is fairness is impt, and haven't got a system that everyone thinks is fair, other than the lucky draw?
Maybe next year if people still want it, we decide before hand how to distribute prizes, if any are on offer? Hopefully sponsor/s think they get their money's worth? We'll have to get some feedback from David at Gybesports whether the sponsorship was a good investment for him?
