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Cross Wind Speed

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Created by Shifu > 9 months ago, 12 Apr 2016
Shifu
QLD, 1992 posts
12 Apr 2016 4:48PM
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Speed tips seem to focus on deep reaching - turning off the wind for maximum speed downhill. That's great, but I'm mostly interested in crosswind speed as I am fascinated by the Alpha division and want to improve my results at my local spot. Most alpha advice focuses on the turn itself, but seems to pay little attention to the the entry and exit speeds.

So I am asking about what the cornerstones of crosswind speed are. How can I go faster so I can I maximise my entry and exit speeds in gybes, particularly in rough water?

hardie
WA, 4129 posts
12 Apr 2016 3:35PM
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Shifu said..
Speed tips seem to focus on deep reaching - turning off the wind for maximum speed downhill. That's great, but I'm mostly interested in crosswind speed as I am fascinated by the Alpha division and want to improve my results at my local spot. Most alpha advice focuses on the turn itself, but seems to pay little attention to the the entry and exit speeds.

So I am asking about what the cornerstones of crosswind speed are. How can I go faster so I can I maximise my entry and exit speeds in gybes, particularly in rough water?







Across the wind speed is in some part affected by your entry speed into the beginning of the alpha (200 metrs before you gybe), coming to the beginning of your alpha run, you want to have had at least a couple of hundred metres sailing from upwind of the (beginning) so you are gathering as much speed as possible by sailing downwind, then when you hit the (beginning) you straighten up and this is what helps you hold a higher speed across the wind. In some conditions you pinch upwind a bit after you've hit the beginning of your alpha run, and then you turn downwind just before gybing to increase your speed, exit speed is all about timing, fast entry speed, fast hands with the rig flip, head slightly downwind before straightening up for the return position of your alpha. Rough water makes for slower alphas, so you want your knees and ankles to be acting as shock absorbers, and mastfoot position slightly fwd of usual.

Regarding rig and setup up, you probably want a slightly flatter sail for across the wind speed, rather than fuller draft in the sail for going fast off the wind, and I tend to use a powerful fin with plenty of lift. Because I sail in very shallow water, I use a wider weed fin than normal for more power/lift.

As for specific tips for sailing fast across the wind it depends on lots of variables, try adjusting one variable at a time, and check your gps for the 10sec speed, see what adjustment/variable increases that. Eg once you've set up right, trimming the board (sailing it flatter vs more off the tail), trimming the sail (How vertical you hold the rig, and at what angle you have it sheeted in), its not easy to give a formula, it takes years and decades to master windsurfing and gybing. Everytime you sail conditions will be at least slightly different vs very different, which requires adjustments.

I'm not the most technical sailor, I more go by feel. But I thought I'd be the first to respond as no-one had yet. Hopefully you'll get a better technical explanation from sum1 on how to sail fast across the wind.

decrepit
WA, 12765 posts
12 Apr 2016 5:28PM
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I'm convinced you're on the right track, a good gybe is necessary for a good alpha, but the cross wind speed is just as important. Unfortunately I can't help you much here, as I'm in the same boat myself.
But I'm trying (as Hardie says), a bigger fin than I use downwind, and a smaller or flatter sail.
But I got my PB alpha in exceptional conditions, I was still set up for downwind speed, (small fin and full sail). But had dead flat water with plenty of wind on it. I still haven't figured out what caused this, haven't seen these conditions since, something to do with weed and tide I guess. But there was no weed on the surface, and there was very little drag. For the first time ever I hit 30kts on the inward leg and 29 on the outward leg. The gybe was good but I've done better, it was the inward and out ward legs that gained me an extra knot.

How you do that in choppy water I can only speculate, that you need a longish fin, so you can get the board up on the tail without spinning out.

Shifu
QLD, 1992 posts
12 Apr 2016 9:58PM
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Great stuff guys - this is getting me all excited now for some more practice! Happily I seem to be doing most of these things you guys have mentioned. BTW I'm on freeride gear - no-cam sails, freeride boards and Select s1 fins.

This track is my best alpha at this spot - 21.3kts. The 5x10 in this gybe was 25.67 so not very fast speeds on the run in and out but the gybe was good. I have gone faster on this run (27+), but with a slightly slower turn. I think I am gybing pretty well, but to get to my goal 22kt alpha I need to go faster in and out. The gear here was Ezzy Cheetah 6.5, 104 Exocet Cross 104, and select S1 35. Wind about 20 kts maybe a little more.

This is open bay conditions though the water in behind the reef is a bit flatter. Alphas start and finish in 1 metre chop. You have the waves somewhat behind you on the way in (wind from the SE, bottom right of the pic) but you have to punch through them going out. I'm trying to find a way of getting better speed through the chop but I guess there is a limit.

Any observations you have are very welcome!



Haggar
QLD, 1670 posts
12 Apr 2016 10:08PM
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Have to say thats a pretty smooth line Ian

decrepit
WA, 12765 posts
12 Apr 2016 8:14PM
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I'd say in those conditions you're doing very well indeed, I wouldn't attempt an alpha in those conditions.
If you figure it out, please let us know how you did it!

hardie
WA, 4129 posts
12 Apr 2016 8:15PM
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Shifty for those conditions that's a very good alpha, if you ever get on flat water you'll kill it

Piv
WA, 372 posts
12 Apr 2016 10:08PM
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Dunno if this will work for you but its something different to try. Rig a bigger sail, 1m bigger than you think you can handle. Only sail for 4 minutes with it. When you come out of the gybe, bear off and pump like crazy to get up above top speed. Dunno if this will work for no cam sails but its basically how you might tackle a slalom race. If you can sail for five minutes like that, go back and rig up an extra 1m. If nothing else you will learn about what you can hang onto. Have a look at some pwa slalom races to get an idea of sail size, board trim, stance and gybes. Those guys certainly dont rig for comfort.

Shifu
QLD, 1992 posts
13 Apr 2016 8:26AM
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hardie said..
Shifty for those conditions that's a very good alpha, if you ever get on flat water you'll kill it


Select to expand quote
decrepit said..
I'd say in those conditions you're doing very well indeed, I wouldn't attempt an alpha in those conditions. If you figure it out, please let us know how you did it!



azymuth
WA, 2153 posts
13 Apr 2016 8:22AM
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Shifu said..
Great stuff guys - this is getting me all excited now for some more practice! Happily I seem to be doing most of these things you guys have mentioned. BTW I'm on freeride gear - no-cam sails, freeride boards and Select s1 fins.

This track is my best alpha at this spot - 21.3kts. The 5x10 in this gybe was 25.67 so not very fast speeds on the run in and out but the gybe was good. I have gone faster on this run (27+), but with a slightly slower turn. I think I am gybing pretty well, but to get to my goal 22kt alpha I need to go faster in and out. The gear here was Ezzy Cheetah 6.5, 104 Exocet Cross 104, and select S1 35. Wind about 20 kts maybe a little more.

This is open bay conditions though the water in behind the reef is a bit flatter. Alphas start and finish in 1 metre chop. You have the waves somewhat behind you on the way in (wind from the SE, bottom right of the pic) but you have to punch through them going out. I'm trying to find a way of getting better speed through the chop but I guess there is a limit.

Any observations you have are very welcome!




Try a smaller fin, perhaps a 32 or 33.
Less drag should get you a knot or two more crosswind speed.
Just go easy on the back foot
JJ

decrepit
WA, 12765 posts
13 Apr 2016 4:43PM
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azymuth said..
..

Try a smaller fin, perhaps a 32 or 33.
Less drag should get you a knot or two more crosswind speed.
Just go easy on the back foot
JJ


Good point JJ, I'm only 65Kg, but my 29cm 45deg weedy is plenty of fin for my 6.6 koncept. And my PB alpha was with a 5.8 koncept with an 18cm 50 deg weedy, but that was in dead flat water.

powersloshin
NSW, 1836 posts
13 Apr 2016 7:09PM
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You could also check your stance, find Guy Cribb's 'hips to be square' tip



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"Cross Wind Speed" started by Shifu