Forums > Windsurfing General

windsurfing photography question 999

Reply
Created by Gestalt > 9 months ago, 22 May 2008
Susie
SA, 837 posts
28 May 2008 8:33PM
Thumbs Up

Haircut,
With the 20d I have the basic lense which goes to 300 (don't feel like running back to check exact details)
but really really want a 4 or 500. To take shots in the snow, and better surfing, windsurfin, kiting shots. Had a look today and the Canon 100-400 with image stabiliser is over 2k and the Sigma 50-500 was $1439. I'm not rich (not working for 3 weeks, then low pay anyway) but I do need a better lense. Is the Sigma good enough?
Cheers,
Susie

aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
28 May 2008 9:13PM
Thumbs Up

that 100 to 400 with IS is on my wish list (along with the 24 to 70 IS) Susie. both worth the same sort of coin.

I was recently having a look at it in a pro's kit and just so nice, the shots at distance were perfect. I guess thats what you get for the $$$ but it is a lot to outlay.

Susie
SA, 837 posts
28 May 2008 8:51PM
Thumbs Up

Yeah, I want that one as well. both on my wish list. But I might have to settle for the 50-500 Sigma. And a better tripod. So how come Haircut said the lense was $1250???

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
28 May 2008 10:32PM
Thumbs Up

Susie said...

Haircut, Is the Sigma good enough?
Cheers,
Susie



hi Susie - if you mean a 100-400 equivalent in a sigma, imho no not really, not compared to the L series one. The canon L 100-400 is sharp right across the image and consistently sharp from 100-400 with very little CA etc. With Higher end Sigma EX lenses like 50-500 EX, even though it has greater reach at both ends, it suffers from some softness on one side at the wide end and lacks the contrast of the canon L's, doesn't have image stabilisation, and not really that much cheaper if you buy the L from camerasdirect.

However - i reckon some of the sigmas are alot better than many of the canon kit lenses at a similar price, but with even the more expensive sigmas / tamrons there always seems to be some sacrifice, like corner softness or slight softness at one end or the other. all the sigmas i've used all seem to lack contrast and when u compare the same shots side by side with a similar L series, and the L's colour is generally more vivid

the 100-400 is about $1750 here on goldcoast

https://www.camerasdirect.com.au/index.php/lenses/canon-lenses/canon-is/canon-ef-100-400mm-f4.5-5.6l-is-usm.html

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
28 May 2008 11:15PM
Thumbs Up

btw - it's worth trying sigma's lenses in the shop because there seems to be variations in the characteristics between lenses of the same model. this happens with canon too, but apparently more common with sigma

positive review for the 50-500 here

http://www.vividlight.com/Articles/413.htm

the one i tried was soft on the left zoomed out between 50 and about 100

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
28 May 2008 11:18PM
Thumbs Up

i was told a 24mm lens just ain't wide enough.

better of 12-18mm max at the wide end.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
28 May 2008 11:48PM
Thumbs Up

18mm


24mm


50mm


it's unfortunate that canon don't have a 18-100 L f4-ish stabilised which is why i use the sigma. not a heap of difference between 18 and 24, but makes a difference shooting indoors



Susie
SA, 837 posts
29 May 2008 3:08PM
Thumbs Up

That was a great review on the Sigma. Now I'm totally confused. I want the Canon but not sure about the money, and also the shipping of the lense.

aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
29 May 2008 3:50PM
Thumbs Up

Go tha Canon, while ever you stay with Canon bodies you will have the lense. I know guys that invested big $$$ in lenses and have had them through 3 or 4 body changes. Thay have always said to me to invest more here

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
29 May 2008 11:34PM
Thumbs Up

Susie - the 100-400 is a feww hundred grams lighter than the sigma 50-500, but it's still quite long when extended to 400. The zoom on the 100-400 is a pump action so it's extremely quick to change zoom range. It also comes with the tripod mount ring which usually costs about $100 to buy seperately.



There doesn't appear to be many reports of dust getting in the lens considering it is a pump type

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
1 Jun 2008 1:22PM
Thumbs Up

hi guys,

tried the gear out properly for the first time yesterday.

(40d)
set to Av
shutter speed was 1/1500+
iso 200-400

stumbled across a bit of an issue.

i found when the target was filling the view finder autofocus worked really well, images were sharp etc.

however, when the lens was at max zoom and the target was still a long way off the autofocus started wandering around and usually focussed the wrong area.

so i guess to keep on the Av track before going to Tv it may be possible to do the following. what's the verdict?

a couple of options i am thinking of are

1. set a larger depth of field. ie F8-f32

2. force the AF point to centre ignoring the other areas of the frame.

my preference would be to use the later as i can still keep the f/number as low as possible cause that is the effect i am playing with.

this was only a problem when the subject was further out than the zoom could handle, (300mm). when the subject filled the viewfinder the 9 point AF worked a treat.

cheers

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
1 Jun 2008 6:20PM
Thumbs Up

i use only the centre point AF when shooting subjects against a busy background, like with windsurfing

the only time i bother using the 9 point AF is when shooting model planes against a clear blue sky with no risk of the AF grabbing a wrong target, or if i want it to take an average focal point across the whole pic.

my 2 bobs worth for settings - if you are standing in the same spot shooting roughly in the same direction for most of the time, i would simply set manual mode for something like 200 iso, 1/1600 - 1/2000 shutter, and open the iris right up. If metering is too bright, shorten the shutter time even more, if not bright enough, crank up the iso to no more than 650 on the 40d as 800 and above starts to get noisy when viewing the shots full size.

not sure if you have already tried this or not - If for some reason you need to close the iris somewhat, but want to soften the background, use the zoom's tele end to create a soft background. Zoom right in and walk back a bit till you get the subject how you want it in the viewfinder - though this obvously won't help much if the subject is already too far away. Ideally you want the subject roughly halfway between you and the objects you want to soften in the background. The closer you have the subject to you and the further away it is from the background, the more control over the amount of softening you will have

the only other alternative to to use a lens with a huge iris, which come at huge costs , physical size, and weight

closing the iris down to f8 to f12 does sharpen the image somewhat on most lenses, but closing it even further starts to soften it again. The average sweetspot is about f8




Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
1 Jun 2008 6:59PM
Thumbs Up

Susie said...

Yeah, I want that one as well. both on my wish list. But I might have to settle for the 50-500 Sigma. And a better tripod. So how come Haircut said the lense was $1250???


did you know you can buy it from the same store as the canon stuff?

https://www.camerasdirect.com.au/index.php/lenses/sigma-lenses/sigma-telephoto-zoom-lenses/sigma-50-500mm-f4-6.3-ex-dg-apo-hsm-for-canon-eos.html

again - IMO image stabilisation is worth the extra dosh at 400 or 500mm, even tripod mounted, because shooting pix in strong wind still tends to move the gear around a bit

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
1 Jun 2008 8:37PM
Thumbs Up

excelent

cheers haircut. can't wait to try it all again now. my main issue on saturday was the wandering AF. i new it was wandering around but wasn't sure what to do about that. will set it to centre point AF in future. Main prob was with the guys coming back in. i couldn't get the camera to pick them up focus wise so tracking was an issue and by the time they had gotten close enough for the AF to work properly it was all over. subsequently i missed some great opportunities.

will try some zooming to blur background as well now.

cheers.

Haircut said...

i use only the centre point AF when shooting subjects against a busy background, like with windsurfing

the only time i bother using the 9 point AF is when shooting model planes against a clear blue sky with no risk of the AF grabbing a wrong target, or if i want it to take an average focal point across the whole pic.

my 2 bobs worth for settings - if you are standing in the same spot shooting roughly in the same direction for most of the time, i would simply set manual mode for something like 200 iso, 1/1600 - 1/2000 shutter, and open the iris right up. If metering is too bright, shorten the shutter time even more, if not bright enough, crank up the iso to no more than 650 on the 40d as 800 and above starts to get noisy when viewing the shots full size.

not sure if you have already tried this or not - If for some reason you need to close the iris somewhat, but want to soften the background, use the zoom's tele end to create a soft background. Zoom right in and walk back a bit till you get the subject how you want it in the viewfinder - though this obvously won't help much if the subject is already too far away. Ideally you want the subject roughly halfway between you and the objects you want to soften in the background. The closer you have the subject to you and the further away it is from the background, the more control over the amount of softening you will have

the only other alternative to to use a lens with a huge iris, which come at huge costs , physical size, and weight

closing the iris down to f8 to f12 does sharpen the image somewhat on most lenses, but closing it even further starts to soften it again. The average sweetspot is about f8







Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
1 Jun 2008 9:08PM
Thumbs Up

even the 2 L lenses i got will not focus when fully zoomed in if the target is too far out of focus to begin with - this usually requires me to quickly zoom out a bit, focus, then zoom back in again. it's not too much of an issue really

stehsegler
WA, 3547 posts
2 Jun 2008 4:13AM
Thumbs Up

Susie said...

That was a great review on the Sigma. Now I'm totally confused. I want the Canon but not sure about the money, and also the shipping of the lense.


Firstly, I do photography for a living so my recommendation is based on getting the best quality image possible for the most money you can afford.

I have pretty much owned or used every single Canon and Sigma lens mentioned in this threat. Personally, I wouldn't touch another Sigma with a 10 foot pole. I have actually sold my last Sigma lens... The 50-500 is ok (I used to own one) but you get what you pay for so don't expect outstanding image quality. Most of the reviews you read were written by people that use them for bird photography... none of these people actually use them for sports photography. The biggest problem with this lens is the 6.3 aperature on the long end. It's simply no good. Another big problem of this lens is the big diameter front element. Good quality circular polarizers for this lens are very expensive. I think I paid somewhere around $350 for mine.

The 100-400 is better in every respect but again don't expect magazine quality sport photography. Also, the push pull zoom takes some getting used to. The good thing about this lens is that the front element has a standard 77mm diameter which means you can get a good filter for about $100.

If I had to choose between the two lenses I would buy the Canon. However, I wouldn't buy either if I was looking for maximum image quality.

Just as an FYI, I am currently using a 70-200 2.8 IS + 1.4 extender or a 500m f.4 for most beach side photography here in OZ. The quality you produce with those lenses is pretty much as good as it currently gets when using the EOS system.



stehsegler
WA, 3547 posts
2 Jun 2008 4:17AM
Thumbs Up


closing the iris down to f8 to f12 does sharpen the image somewhat on most lenses, but closing it even further starts to soften it again. The average sweetspot is about f8


It's actually more around 5.6 for most cheap lenses ... although on a 1.6 crop factor sensor camera this has less meaning than it has on a full frame camera.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
2 Jun 2008 12:06PM
Thumbs Up

stehsegler said...

Just as an FYI, I am currently using a 70-200 2.8 IS + 1.4 extender or a 500m f.4 for most beach side photography here in OZ. The quality you produce with those lenses is pretty much as good as it currently gets when using the EOS system.



Howdy stehsegler. glad u are using that combo as when i was buying a tele lens i was initially going to buy the 70-200 2.8 IS + 1.4 combination, and I'm still considering the lens on it's own without the converter, so I'm after as much feedback on it as I can get.

After cutting my choices down to your combo and the 100-400, aggonising over the two and reading endless reviews and forum posts by people who own and use both, the 70-200 & 1.4 v 100-400 all the user reviews were about 50/50 either way (being used for sports and otherwise). I finally got to talk talk to a couple of guys who were using both of these lenses and like you they both said the 70-200 2.8 IS was terrific on it's own (tiny bit sharper and more contrasty), but they warned me that they found the 1.4x softened the pic to the point that it was pointless using it instead of the 100-400 as the 100-400 was just that little bit sharper at identical fstops / focal lengths, and they both talked me out of the 70-200 if I was planning to use it with the 1.4 most of the time. Still, it would be lurvelly to have have the 2.8 IS even just to use without the 1.4x.

do you find your autofocus speed or accuracy drops a little when using the 1.4x on the 70-200 f2.8? I noticed this issue came up on a couple of forums when used with the 40d body (apparently 2x is noticably worse again). I wonder if this only occurs witht he 40d and maybe not so noticable on other bodies?

Cheers

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
2 Jun 2008 1:54PM
Thumbs Up

stehsegler said...


closing the iris down to f8 to f12 does sharpen the image somewhat on most lenses, but closing it even further starts to soften it again. The average sweetspot is about f8


It's actually more around 5.6 for most cheap lenses ... although on a 1.6 crop factor sensor camera this has less meaning than it has on a full frame camera.




the forums i've been trolling through seem to say exactly that. the lens i have when compared with price works very well "for what it is" when the aperture is kept to F4/5.6, smaller apertures start to lose crispness.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
2 Jun 2008 3:33PM
Thumbs Up

yeps. that 18-200 sigma i got is at its best at about 6.4.

those 2 L lenses i been using seem to be sharpest at 9ish.

the lttle elcheapo 50mm 1.8 i benn using is sharpest between 8-11. i cant see any difference with it between 8 & 11 but beyond 12 it softens again

gestalt - you definately can't see a black furryness along the top of your viewfinder? i'm starting to wonder if mines got a problem. i can't ever remember noticing it on the other canons

any hoo, if it helps someone to make a decision between the 100-400 and any other lens, i'll stick some 100% crops in here. This is about as sharp as this one gets at 5.6f and 400mm @ 1/2000 on a monopod, it might get slightly sharper with the camera sitting dead still shooting a stationary object, but it is this sharp all the way across the image

does anyone know if there are any good sites that allow full size images to be uploaded, without having to create accounts etc?








some others

stehsegler
WA, 3547 posts
2 Jun 2008 4:31PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Haircut,


Howdy stehsegler. glad u are using that combo as when i was buying a tele lens i was initially going to buy the 70-200 2.8 IS + 1.4 combination, and I'm still considering the lens on it's own without the converter, so I'm after as much feedback on it as I can get.


From my experience the 70-200 2.8, 2.8 IS and 4.0 are all pretty much on par. I have both the 2.8 and 2.8 IS. I feel the 2.8 has a slightly better image quality than the 2.8 IS. I haven't sold the 2.8 (non-IS) yet because I always find it is a nice lens to take traveling as it's quite a bit lighter than the IS version. I guess if you really want to save the money and don't need the extra two stops the 4.0 would do just fine.

However, I don't think using the 1.4 extender is worth combining with the 4.0. As for the other combos... you can see a difference in quality if you put the images next to each other. From my experience you really want to make sure you get the exposure within half a stop or quality will really suffer.

Overall, I have used both the 1.4 and 2.0 extender. Forget the 2.0 extender, it might be good for web resolution photos but anything above that and the images look real bad. The 1.4 works really well with the 70-200 2.8 and ok with the 500 f4 ... good enough that I will use it and get the shot rather than not using it and missing out. As for focusing speed, I can't speak for the 40D as I haven't used that combo yet but on the 5D, 1D Mark II and 1D Mark III it all works without a hitch.

One thing to consider when using a 1.4 extender on a 500mm lens is that you are starting to pick up quite a bit of ocean haze in the image. Think of it as the lens "compressing" multiple layers of air and hence picking up any moisture evaporating from the ocean. It's more prevalent at certain angles to the sun and during the mid day hours especially when the wind is light.

FYI, you can order lenses from either Adorama or BH Photo and Video in New York US. Both are pretty large reputable retails shifting large quantities of pro Canon gear. Prices are really good with the current value of the Australian dollar and warranty is usually honored locally... not that I have ever had to make use of warranty on L level lenses.

hope that helps.

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
2 Jun 2008 7:25PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Haircut,

not home at the moment, be back online later tonight where i'll let you know about the viewfinder

cheers.

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
2 Jun 2008 9:56PM
Thumbs Up

hi haircut,

i can't see anything at the top of the viewfinder.

is it possible your camera is in mirror lockup mode? i read something in the manual about the mirror staying up until the shutter is pressed when in this mode?

cheers.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
2 Jun 2008 10:03PM
Thumbs Up

no it's not, but thanks alot for checking for me

it is the black sponge in the orange cirlce i can see. it mustn't be glued on in quite the right spot. if i push it with a toothpick it gets it out of view. i'm tempted to tear it off, but not sure if it wipes the mirror, focus pane, or something else?


OceanBlue64
VIC, 980 posts
2 Jun 2008 10:26PM
Thumbs Up

Haircut said...

no it's not, but thanks alot for checking for me

it is the black sponge in the orange cirlce i can see. it mustn't be glued on in quite the right spot. if i push it with a toothpick it gets it out of view. i'm tempted to tear it off, but not sure if it wipes the mirror, focus pane, or something else?





What model canon? I will see if I can get you a service manual if you want. From memory that foam is only a stop for the mirror as it lifts up
** edit- gee if i had looked at the pic I would have seen lol. Would you like a service manual if I can get one?

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
2 Jun 2008 10:30PM
Thumbs Up

yeah,

mine doesn't look like that. the foam on mine is fully seated under the flap.

i can barely even see the foam at all and the flap seems to be sitting tight against the housing below.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
3 Jun 2008 12:00AM
Thumbs Up

is the flap folded up in yours?

any chance you could post a pic of it gesty?

Thanks dude

Gestalt
QLD, 14670 posts
3 Jun 2008 2:06PM
Thumbs Up

Haircut said...

is the flap folded up in yours?

any chance you could post a pic of it gesty?

Thanks dude


nope, the flap is sitting firmly on the housing under it. making the foam look hidden.

i can't get a photo cause i don't have 2 cameras.

sorry mate.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
3 Jun 2008 6:52PM
Thumbs Up



What model canon? I will see if I can get you a service manual if you want. From memory that foam is only a stop for the mirror as it lifts up
** edit- gee if i had looked at the pic I would have seen lol. Would you like a service manual if I can get one?



Sorry Ocean, I missed your post you are right, and i've just realised it is like the 5d with the removable AF focussing screen and AF point screen

Would love a service manual if at all possible. That would be awesome thank you very much


stehsegler - thanks for the review too

firiebob
WA, 3175 posts
7 Jun 2008 5:19PM
Thumbs Up

For all you other poor bastards like me who can't afford a DSLR, with good quality lenses, this was taken with a Panasoninic FZ30 (cheap), full zoom 420mm, great P&S.

The sailer is Troppo at Yorkey's.
Nice coloured water hey, that's my speed strip



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"windsurfing photography question 999" started by Gestalt