Forums > Windsurfing General

windsurfing banned at murray mouth

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Created by tt > 9 months ago, 13 Jan 2008
tt
SA, 64 posts
13 Jan 2008 4:36PM
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A heap of crew made the drive to the murray mouth today ready for a good session only to be greeted by 3 national parks staff imforming us that as sailboarders we are classed as personal water craft and as such under their ledgislation we are not permitted to sail within the coorong national park area. This is because they claim that sailboards are doing environmental damage to the surrounding habitat but under the same law all power boats can be used within the park because they dont impact on the evironment, work that one out! So if national parks rangers catch anyone sailing the mouth you will be issued with a $170 fine[}:)] So you can all thank the goverment for ruining what is one of the best flat water spots in south oz.

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
13 Jan 2008 5:27PM
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Go fight it boys & girls.

Boats are Ok but windsurfers NOT

Get on to your politicians...& start at the top...bad press etc

stehsegler
WA, 3542 posts
13 Jan 2008 3:32PM
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hm... that sounds strange... perhaps tree hugin' Peter Garett should look at banning fossil fuel burning motor boats and jet skis in National Parks before banning plastic bags.

latedropeddy
VIC, 417 posts
13 Jan 2008 5:57PM
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This pisses me off.
Yeah sure I could understand banning jet ski's etc - but windsurfers?
What the hell could a windsurfer do to cause any more enviro impact than a fishing boat with a 200 merc on the back towed by a V8 Landcruiser?

get a petition happening and I will sign it!

yoyo
WA, 1646 posts
13 Jan 2008 4:00PM
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"Personal water craft" is a well established generic term for jet ski. Just hit google if you doubt it. If some moron from the Parks department wants to make his own definition because he has a dislike for sailboarders then take the fine, fight it in court and when the Parks department has a bunch of costs awarded against them maybe he will loose his job (unlikely).
If they want to ban windsurfers then they have to change the law. This country has had enough of trumped up people in uniform putting their own interpretation on laws (immigration dept etc). It is about time they got with the mood of the nation.

Even in Sa law PWC are defined as being power driven eg.



HARBORS AND NAVIGATION REGULATIONS 1994 - REG 8
8—Interpretation



"personal watercraft" means a device that—


(a) is propelled by a motor; and


(b) has a fully enclosed hull; and


(c) is designed not to retain water if capsized; and


(d) is designed to be operated by a person who sits astride, stands, or kneels on the device, and includes the device commonly referred to as a jet ski;

Take a copy of this Act with you with this definition when you go there again and wave it under their noses. And see whether they are willing to misuse their authority now they know they cant bluff you and you know THEY are acting illegally.

you can find it here.

www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/sa/consol_reg/hanr1994322/s8.html#personal_watercraft



owain
NSW, 228 posts
13 Jan 2008 6:29PM
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that is bull S@#$

give a current affair a call

im sure they would sort something out

choco
SA, 4175 posts
13 Jan 2008 7:05PM
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Oh well next time a make the trip down to the MMouth i'm gonna fit a little plastic outboard between my back straps that should class me as a boat.

RioGirl
VIC, 5 posts
13 Jan 2008 7:41PM
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As an ex-SA parkie, I'd encourage you to check with the regional office for reasons for the restrictions before you start on some massive anti-Parks campaign. I checked the Parks website and noticed that there are restrictions while dredging is happening, and they're for safety reasons. Sometimes the rangers don't have all the info.

Also, at the risk of sounding too much like a greenie, windsurfers can have quite an impact in environmentally-sensitive areas. We can go into shallower waters than most power boats and our presence can disrupt endangered or vulnerable shorebirds. I've personally witnessed it! I've even visited some spots where windsurfers have taken upon themselves to clear reeds, etc just to make a better launching point. Then there are always the few who leave their garbage behind!

OK - I'll get off my soapbox now

MANTOOTH
SA, 29 posts
13 Jan 2008 7:39PM
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Well it looks like we'll be back at boggy again guys I hope ya did'nt get fined? Not long now and we'll be sailing at beach port cant wait.

yoyo
WA, 1646 posts
13 Jan 2008 6:39PM
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Rio, that's not the issue. If they want to ban windsurfing, get them to issue a reg and have it gazzetted. You can't go around making stuff up (calling a windsurfer a PWC) and then threating to fine someone $170 for said made up offence. That is an abuse of authority.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
13 Jan 2008 9:24PM
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Abuse of the environment in a National Park has nothing to do with windsurfing. Its like saying public schools are bad because Ivan Milat was educated at a public school. Some people are idiots who leave rubbish behind and treat National Parks as their own. Just because some of them happen to windsurf is beside the point.

As said before, classing windsurfers as personal water craft is a distortion of the truth. Are they banning kayaking, dingies and boogie boards? By these jumped up Nazis definition, then yes they are personal as in someone uses it, yes they go on the water, and yes they are craft. So by their warped definition they are personal water craft.

If some ranger had a go at me about this, I would ask to see the rule and what relevant legislation that rule is based on. If the ranger could not provide it in person, I would understand that and ask if they can get it to me ASAP and thank them for their public service. If they were still not going to let me in I would just tell them I don't sail, its a paddle board. I lay down on it and paddle around.

Rangers should go round chasing the troublemakers, rather than taking the easy option of kicking everyone out of the park. I would contact my local state MP in writing immediately and ask what the hell is going on. You have to fight this and make sure these power trippers don't get the upper hand.




Susie
SA, 837 posts
13 Jan 2008 9:15PM
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I think I'd still have a nose on my board if they hadn't shooed us off. I think the dredging actually does SO MUCH more environmental damage than us windsurfers. People swim there too in the shallows so what about the damage they are doing? And the fishing boats etc??
It's a real shame cos its a great spot and all the other flat water ones are about a foot deep.

Richiefish
QLD, 5610 posts
13 Jan 2008 8:47PM
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A PWC is also required to be registered, rider to be licensed, must carry a V sheet, flares,and pfd... ?????? This SA national park definition is freaking warped...

mkseven
QLD, 2315 posts
13 Jan 2008 9:33PM
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I think you will find PWC can include all powered and non-powered craft (canoes, boats, sailboards). Just to clarify did the ranger advise you that you can not launch there, rather than sail there? If joe redneck in his 4wd and tinny decided to go to the same location and drag his tinny across the reeds would the parks officer not say the same thing?

As RioGirl said we do have an impact on the environment, if that is a roosting area the impact could be quite significant. It is a national park- it's there for a reason. I'm sure the dog walkers felt quite the same way when they were banned from national parks.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
13 Jan 2008 11:05PM
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mkseven said...

I think you will find PWC can include all powered and non-powered craft (canoes, boats, sailboards).


Not according to legislation in South Australia or NSW


Personal watercraft (PWC) is the term used to describe trade names such as Jet Skis, Waverunners and Sea Doos. Regardless of the type of PWC it is important to remember PWC are just another form of powerboat, and are generally subject to similar regulations and laws. However, there are also some special rules that apply to the use of these craft. PWC are much more manoeuvrable than traditional power boats, have different handling characteristics and when used carelessly they can present a danger and nuisance to both the operator and to other people using our waterways.

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

So these jumped up playschool cops need to get their definitions right firstly, then need to be able to show their regulations backed up by law. Just because they thought it was a good idea when they had an idle moment, of which there are probably many, doesn't mean its law.


mkseven said...
As RioGirl said we do have an impact on the environment, if that is a roosting area the impact could be quite significant. It is a national park- it's there for a reason. I'm sure the dog walkers felt quite the same way when they were banned from national parks.


Fair enough, but instead of committing possibly illegal actions by stopping people from visiting the park they should be enforcing laws that they can enforce, ie gathering evidence and charging people who do break the law in the National Park.

These rangers forget its not THEIR national park, its OUR national park.

Lumping windsurfers as PWCs is a very dangerous precident which needs to be fought wherever it occurs.



mkseven
QLD, 2315 posts
13 Jan 2008 10:22PM
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So someone is going to fight a fine disputing the term Personal Water Craft does not include sailboards? Logically they (sailboards) are yes? Maybe they need to change the term for jetski's.

If the jumped up playschool cops weren't there you probably wouldn't want to sail there anyway. They are the caretakers, trying to prevent people from abusing what is there and they are only doing their job. If there was signage advising of the situation then they had every right to issue the fine, not just issue a warning.

Why not contact relevant authorities and find out what the situation exactly is, instead of name-calling on the internet.

I can feel better with launching at wello now, since on the western side the signs advise all PWC powered on non-powered are forbidden from entering in that area (obviously that doesn't include us).

It does suck though that potentially you stand to lose a sailing area, possibly with no fault of windsurfers at all.

reiffo
SA, 147 posts
13 Jan 2008 11:14PM
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We launch from the boat ramp area and it had nothing to do with the exclusion zone around the bird freindly dredge. This was premeditated and was due to someone complaining. I took the ranges details and will be most certainly making some calls tomorrow. While we were there a number of power boats where cruising past including a 40 footer. On the other side where we sail there were 4wd drives every where with guys fishing. The sign where we launch from reads
"The use of personal water craft (Jetskis) is prohibated." but does not refer to us at all. Looks like you can ski though. Its like telling someone that they cant ride their push bike on a 4wd track

reiffo
SA, 147 posts
13 Jan 2008 11:23PM
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Also should mention that where we sail is next to about 30 waterfront properties that all have jetties. There is an industrial yard and boat ramp. This by no means a pristine piece of the coorong. We rig up on a public reserve and park in the boat ramp car park. I'm on the phone to leon (5aa) tomorrow as he loves getting into Minister Maywald.[}:)]

mkseven
QLD, 2315 posts
13 Jan 2008 10:59PM
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Fair enough.

Well all I can say is sign... what sign?

Kym Roberts
SA, 259 posts
13 Jan 2008 11:32PM
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Me and my old man where there today, we are going to fight this, we need all the support you guys can give us !!! there is no sigs saying no windsurfing, the signs say no jet skie's no camping, the reason we think the offiaialls are on us is because the councill boys are freinds will local fisho's, so we need to get on this right now before they get the power, we need to act quick, and we have enough numbers to make a differernce, what do you think guys ???????????

Samb0
270 posts
13 Jan 2008 10:29PM
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It appears that there are certain moronic sphincter muscles that are on this planet just for the sole purpose of making life difficult for others.

25
WA, 319 posts
13 Jan 2008 10:43PM
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Take the Wineman approach - start at the top - Minister for the Environment etc - this will ensure action/resolution in the shortest possible time!

Brick
SA, 66 posts
14 Jan 2008 12:47AM
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Well I got a bit fired up when we got there and found out the others were kicked out .A Parks vehicle rolled up later away from us in the carpark and I could'nt resist confronting the two men about what had been said to the others who had been kicked out of the water. It turned out that they said the rangers had been there before and they were the ones who approached the sailors before ,funny thing though is that they still had parks uniforms on. Then they produced a camera and started taking pictures of two sailors who still went out!
THEY IGNORED THE BOAT THERE DRAGGING TWO SKIM BOARDS WITH PEOPLE ON THEM!
Can anyone say "just take the pictures we want "
This is all very strange ,I've downloaded the National Parks Act of 1972 with amendments and I can't find any referrence to sailing craft being banned from that region.
Also I've got the Conservation Council of SA recommendations 2003 onward and it only has reference to Jet skis and they being the only PERSONAL WATER CRAFT they are concerned with causing possible damage .
I'm writing to my MP and the Paper to report on this unfairness ,just little people trying to big note themselves it seems in one word BEAUROCRACY

bubs
SA, 924 posts
14 Jan 2008 1:01AM
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We've just come back from two weeks at Goolwa and sailed the murray mouth nearly each day as the south lake was too shallow and unsafe. I cant see how we had any negative impact on the environment in any way. I would be more worried about the effect of four wheel drives going along the beach and power boats in large numbers than a small group of windsurfers. There seems to be a number of issues that need clarification both in a legal sense and the reasoning behind the rangers desire to get us out.

We will need to follow this closely and perhaps use this forum as a means of communication as the site is the only flat water with consistent wind close to adelaide that i currently know of given that boggy and goolwa south lake are out of action.

Bubs

yoyo
WA, 1646 posts
13 Jan 2008 11:52PM
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The whole thing sounds suss the more that is said.

Sounds like someone with influence who doesn't like windsurfers ( one of those waterfront property owners?) has used his connections to get the "blight" out of his patch. The whole thing smells of corruption. Pity they don't have a ccc there.

choco
SA, 4175 posts
14 Jan 2008 8:58AM
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When i sailed there a couple of weeks ago there was heaps of people fishing off the banks and in boats without pointing the finger i think this is where the complaint may have come from.
If that was me fishing i would be pissed off having sailboards flying around scaring off the fish.

grandfromage
WA, 344 posts
14 Jan 2008 9:53AM
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the whole situation is rotten. its encouraging that poeple are passionate enough to have the drive to do something about it. i dont know what i can do but this sort of thing really **s me off., and i offer my full support (for what its worth). i have not been here long enough to know who is who, and what is what as far as local politics is concerned, but i do know a guy who "knows people" in politics and will see if any advice or halp can be given.

divaldo
SA, 2878 posts
14 Jan 2008 11:28AM
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Letter already sent to Advertiser editorial!

Zubby
SA, 896 posts
14 Jan 2008 12:14PM
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Good work Dave!!

I remember about three years ago when the City of Holdfast Bay tried to ban Windsurfing between Seacliff and North Glenelg. Us Windsurfers ended up winning that battle!! so it can be done.



divaldo
SA, 2878 posts
14 Jan 2008 12:24PM
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All sorted, see new topic!



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"windsurfing banned at murray mouth" started by tt