Hi Guys,
For those that have tried both sports, could you compare gear hassles and expense please? As as returnee to windsurfing of around 18 months I can definitely say the sport is irresistibly challenging and enjoyable. I am, however, reaching a point of despair with the expense and stress of breaking booms, masts, sails etc and trying to maintain a quiver for various conditions.
Is kiting less prone to gear breakage and is it easier and less expensive to maintain a working set of gear?
I should add that I'm 100kg which does't help in terms of breaking stuff.
thanks,
Barry
I've got no idea, but it's no longer a binary choice, now that wingdings have arrived, and the other foiling options
Carbon boom of Max length that still fits your sails and RDM masts will make a big difference Barry.
I can't speak to kiting.
Cheers Rob
Select to expand quoteBarryDazz said..
Hi Guys,
For those that have tried both sports, could you compare gear hassles and expense please? As as returnee to windsurfing of around 18 months I can definitely say the sport is irresistibly challenging and enjoyable. I am, however, reaching a point of despair with the expense and stress of breaking booms, masts, sails etc and trying to maintain a quiver for various conditions.
Is kiting less prone to gear breakage and is it easier and less expensive to maintain a working set of gear?
I should add that I'm 100kg which does't help in terms of breaking stuff.
thanks,
Barry
I am also 100kgs, which is not a good thing, but at least I can compare.
Kiting is so much easier on the body and the gear. I went through breaking aluminium booms and SDM masts and ended up with (almost) unbreakable carbon booms and Ezzy RDMs.
Even so, kiting is easier. I have a formula board and a few sails, and I used to really enjoy it on those really light days when nothing else would get me planing. Pumping onto gusts was fun and once going it would keep going in next to no wind.
Now with kites, I can get going in very little wind with a big kite and a big board. The large kite feels hardly different to a small kite and the range you get is so much better. I was kiting the other day in 13 knots with a 17m kite and it was actually fun. I could never have used that wind in the past.
I have had problems with kites but pretty much older kites where the valves let go. I ended up buying 3 new kites to avoid that problem at least for a while and as long as you don't buy current season popular kites, they aren't too bad price wise.
I have kited far more time in the last 2 seasons than I ever would have windsurfed. (Dont tell the other kiters, but it is so much easier!)
If you are a big strong dude in a light wind location, the best sport is WINDfoiling.
150 liter board and 6.0 sail gets you flying around in 13 knot breeze with a big foil.
Have to agree with LeeD, if you already know how to windsurf windfoiling is way to go for lighter wind. The only extra gear you need is the foil and a suitable board. Progression is not difficult to get to a level where its fun.
I currently do all 3, windsurf, kite and wing, very proficient in windsurf and kite, learning wing. Kiting is easier to learn but I doubt much cheaper. A bar and lines is +$700, a kite up to $2000. Getting to the beach is easier with kite gear, set up about the same. Kiting needs specific setup locations, assistance launching and landing if not experienced. You can die kiting, it happens, unlikely windsurfing or winging.
I get many more days on the water kiting, just opens up light wind options that you wouldn't bother with windsurf gear. I'm into foiling so think 25 knots+ in 8 knots of wind. Kite foiling is the hardest foiling disciple to learn, windfoiling the easiest.
Winging, new kid on the block. So if your a windsurfer you know how to wing, very easy skill transfer. Funny watch kiters try, they have no idea. The gear is no cheaper than the other two but you don't need much of it. Wind range is about the same as windsurf, but as you gain experience you can push into lower wind ranges than windsurf but the kites still rule the ultra light wind.
If I'm short of time or setup conditions don't suit kiting, eg high tide and its +15knots I'm winging. My 5'8 board, assembled foil and wing fit inside the car. I'm on the water in 5 mins swell riding. It's also extremely safe, I've been teaching my 9 yr old grandsons to do it, can't do that with a kite. Yes, it's slow, windsurf rules for speed freaks, it's all about swell riding so if your into that it's a great option.
I still enjoy my windsurf, but I only own a freestyle board now and a couple of sail. It is my go to in nuking conditions as big jumps with rotations is still a lot of fun. More windsurfers and wind foilers will go winging unless they are speed freaks as much easier setup, transport and less gear. One or two wings is all you need to cover most conditions and pumping up take 60 seconds.
60 seconds?
My 2 way Naish pump takes 62 strokes to inflate my 6.0 S25 Naish wing to 7 lbs.
While easier than the 235 strokes to inflate my 10' SUP, I'd say more like what it takes to rig but not finely tune my windsurf rigs.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
60 seconds?
My 2 way Naish pump takes 62 strokes to inflate my 6.0 S25 Naish wing to 7 lbs.
While easier than the 235 strokes to inflate my 10' SUP, I'd say more like what it takes to rig but not finely tune my windsurf rigs.
I guess I'm mainly using a 4 mtr so 40 strokes in 60 seconds is quite doable. I can barely get the mast into the sail in that time. I also use the big Duotone pump.
Select to expand quoteBarryDazz said..
Hi Guys,
....
Is kiting less prone to gear breakage and is it easier and less expensive to maintain a working set of gear?
....
You don't say what you're doing to cause all these breakages. I'm guessing you could find a way to break anything if you put your mind to it. I have mates up to 120 kg who charge pretty hard. I'm not aware of any breakages other than the occasional ding.
For me the best bang for buck by a long way has been kite foiling. I use one 120cm board, one surf oriented foil and a bunch of cheap surf kites. The whole kit fits in the boot of my car and it covers 10-40+ knot winds, flat water and waves. I get 250+ sessions a year and can get out on the water 2-3 hours earlier than anybody else, and keep riding the same gear through their sessions.
I have a love/hate relationship with wing foiling. It's easy enough to do and fun provided you have enough wind, and preferably some waves. It's horrible in light winds. The board is big and clunky and fragile. The wing is always wet and you have to tie it to something to stop it blowing away. Having two leashes is a pain. The performance in terms of speed, range and upwind ability is about half a kite foil, closer to your basic windsurf or kitesurf kit.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..BarryDazz said..
Hi Guys,
....
Is kiting less prone to gear breakage and is it easier and less expensive to maintain a working set of gear?
....
You don't say what you're doing to cause all these breakages. I'm guessing you could find a way to break anything if you put your mind to it. I have mates up to 120 kg who charge pretty hard. I'm not aware of any breakages other than the occasional ding.
For me the best bang for buck by a long way has been kite foiling. I use one 120cm board, one surf oriented foil and a bunch of cheap surf kites. The whole kit fits in the boot of my car and it covers 10-40+ knot winds, flat water and waves. I get 250+ sessions a year and can get out on the water 2-3 hours earlier than anybody else, and keep riding the same gear through their sessions.
I have a love/hate relationship with wing foiling. It's easy enough to do and fun provided you have enough wind, and preferably some waves. It's horrible in light winds. The board is big and clunky and fragile. The wing is always wet and you have to tie it to something to stop it blowing away. Having two leashes is a pain. The performance in terms of speed, range and upwind ability is about half a kite foil, closer to your basic windsurf or kitesurf kit.
My big problem has been catapults which I thought I had mostly under control. I went out way overpowered yesterday and sure enough went over handlebars and boom extension snapped clean off where it joins main section. I hit water very hard, maybe I resist too much rather than going with it. I was lucky in that I could stick extension back in and get back to shore. Also hurt my knee which I think will be ok but all in all a very demoralising session as was second sail with new boom. I have now ruined 3 in just over a year, the other two I bent. I have been a bit of a tight arse and extend boom to almost max to cover my big sail. I have been advised to go carbon and probably time I did. All my breakages - booms, masts, sails and uni joint have occurred during a catapult. I knew I would be way overpowered yesterday and went out anyway and I suppose that's another lesson learned.
Are skinny masts more durable that the standard ones?
thanks for all the replies,
Barry
Select to expand quoteBarryDazz said..
My big problem has been catapults which I thought I had mostly under control. I went out way overpowered yesterday and sure enough went over handlebars and boom extension snapped clean off where it joins main section. I hit water very hard, maybe I resist too much rather than going with it. I was lucky in that I could stick extension back in and get back to shore. Also hurt my knee which I think will be ok but all in all a very demoralising session as was second sail with new boom. I have now ruined 3 in just over a year, the other two I bent. I have been a bit of a tight arse and extend boom to almost max to cover my big sail. I have been advised to go carbon and probably time I did. All my breakages - booms, masts, sails and uni joint have occurred during a catapult. I knew I would be way overpowered yesterday and went out anyway and I suppose that's another lesson learned.
Are skinny masts more durable that the standard ones?
thanks for all the replies,
Barry
At 100kgs, you should give up the idea of aluminium booms, especially at max extension. I broke 3 I think. One still in the 12 month warranty period. They generally are not made for the weight we can put on them. You were lucky that you broke it the way you did. All mine have been where the arms break and then it snaps the tailpiece straight away.
For catapults I noticed the change in outcome when I kept holding onto the boom. Instead of the boom hitting the board and me hitting the water, holding the boom tends to push the board out from under and you swing around the boom arm.
in my experience, skinny masts have been indestructable. but to be fair I didn't have that many SDM breaks. I broke a few formula masts, but that's just the nature of those stupid things.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Kites cost as much as sails and are buggered in a quarter of the time
But they get 3 times as much use as one kite has a massive wind range, instead of having 3 sails, booms masts, boards bla bla bla to cover that same range.
And it all fits in a back pack with TT strapped on top and you can ride your bike down the beach with it all.
How many seasons do you get out of your kites ?
No board?? What are you talking about ??
Twin tip straps to the back pack,
and surf board under the arm. Simples, no expensive trailers and special decked out mini buses.
I dont think anyone that has done both could argue that kite gear is a lot less pain (which is what the OP asked) in cost per wind range, transporting, storing and amount of gear needed.
But the real question would be, if you really love and are committed to poledancing, the cost of all the extra gear and hassle of getting it all to the beach etc and replacing all the expensive damaged bits would not be a problem as its what you want to do.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..Mark _australia said..
Kites cost as much as sails and are buggered in a quarter of the time
But they get 3 times as much use as one kite has a massive wind range, instead of having 3 sails, booms masts, boards bla bla bla to cover that same range. And it all fits in a back pack with TT strapped on top and you can ride your bike down the beach with it all.
How many seasons do you get out of your kites ?
3sails covers 18 - 30kn.You do that with one kite? (Not gusts to 30- solid average wind strength).
One kite?
My point was simply that some people cite cost, and I really dunno that its a consideration. I mean who here has been doing their sport more than a couple of years and only has two kites and one board, or 3 sails and one board....?
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..lotofwind said..Mark _australia said..
Kites cost as much as sails and are buggered in a quarter of the time
But they get 3 times as much use as one kite has a massive wind range, instead of having 3 sails, booms masts, boards bla bla bla to cover that same range. And it all fits in a back pack with TT strapped on top and you can ride your bike down the beach with it all.
How many seasons do you get out of your kites ?
3sails covers 18 - 30kn.You do that with one kite? (Not gusts to 30- solid average wind strength).
One kite?
My point was simply that some people cite cost, and I really dunno that its a consideration. I mean who here has been doing their sport more than a couple of years and only has two kites and one board, or 3 sails and one board....?
Kites have been able to cover that range for years now. This is a chart from way back in 2014, the 8m should fit what your looking for.
17kn to 32kn. You can pick one up for about $800, has got to be cheaper than 3 sails?
But hey, like I said above, if he loves the sport he wouldnt care about cost, but he was after the cheaper less gear thats less of a hassle.
The above chart was just the first one that popped up when I searched, but there are 100's on line if you are interested.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..lotofwind said..Mark _australia said..
Kites cost as much as sails and are buggered in a quarter of the time
But they get 3 times as much use as one kite has a massive wind range, instead of having 3 sails, booms masts, boards bla bla bla to cover that same range. And it all fits in a back pack with TT strapped on top and you can ride your bike down the beach with it all.
How many seasons do you get out of your kites ?
3sails covers 18 - 30kn.You do that with one kite? (Not gusts to 30- solid average wind strength).
One kite?
My point was simply that some people cite cost, and I really dunno that its a consideration. I mean who here has been doing their sport more than a couple of years and only has two kites and one board, or 3 sails and one board....?
I think you can do that. I have a 9m that covers that range, but like windsurfing, you would much prefer to have more kites to cover that range instead of having to work hard at the low end and being over powered at the top end.
My kite purchases have been similar to my windsurfing sail purchases. Buy last years model new or buy less popular models, or even second hand. It can keep the cost down a lot. Sure you don't get the best of the best, but who really has the skill level that would notice? Kites are just like sails in that you could read a review where someone raves about it and another hates it, and the typical sailor would not notice the difference.
There was a beginner last year that was kiting a 17m Ozone Zephyr, and he was doing it in almost every wind from 15 knots to mid 20s. I never would have thought a kite that big would have that sort of range, but he seemed to cope with it fine.
Kiting is definitely easier, which seems to create a false sense of security. Around here kiters get injured far more often than windsurfers and they only go out on the good days. Once its properly windy (+30kts steady) they almost all stay home, only a few foilers go out on the lightest days when windfoil or wingers go out. Probably because our wind can shut off in a hurry and we have strong currents. They are limited to being able to launch at certain beaches on certain tides, the newer ones also need help launching and landing so if they are the first to show up they sit around waiting.
Kiting equipment definitely packs up small and once you are over the initial learning curve it's not hard unless you get into unexpected conditions.
To the OP: I used to smash board noses like crazy then one day it just stopped and I don't know why. I still get the occasional catapult but I've learned how to do it without wrecking gear.
Lots of windsurfers make one sail work, and get 90 days a year.
But anyone who cares about comfort and performance would choose 4 sails.
Every liter I know Carrie's 3 kites for local kiting, 1-2 more for drives over 50 miles.
Same with windfoiling.
I have 3 wings and that does not cover 7-12, or 25-35.
I don't kite and can only comment on windsurfing. The gear used to be a pain, until I bought my van. Now it's simple.
It's all good "wind sports". Many season now kiting it's much easier, not as wind hungry as windsurfer and less kit. 12m kite and surfboard gets me out in 14knts. 8m kite over 19knts. Travel with family, limited car luggage space kite is great. Boosting with a kite 
. Much easier through shore break.
But I'm still a windsurfer through wooden booms, "new toys" "wind action" and now starboard.
nothing beats wave riding with a sail. float and ride windsurf kit has competent sailors out in 12knts and surfing way before kites can launch.
Modern sails are so hi tech in fabric and cut, the wind range is wide my 5.3m / 4.7m / 92ltr board almost covers conditions.
foils are next level can't comment my learning is still infant.
setup kites need space. Lines out, launch / land. Can be on the water quicker than sail if I have a clear area.
witnessed some scary kite launches in crowded areas. Sails no problems in tight spaces.
I wash kite lines, kite bar and rinse safety, not kite. Windsurfing don't wash sail but boom, universal, extension I wash in fresh water. Set out and pack up, windsurf longer.
cost and equipment failure.
sails bit cheaper than kites (2nd hand or run out, usually my buys) I'm not tough on gear, probs boring on pushing new tricks.
kite bar and lines also bit cheaper than universal, extension, mast and boom. Kite boards also cheaper.
Universal joint (tendon) I replace each year. Kite safety line I replace every 2 years.
Have windsurfed 4 yrs and windfoiled now 2 yrs, only broken equipment was 1 sail rod batten and 1 ferrule after I hit a sandbar windfoiling, $20 to replace, that is it! Have carbon booms and 100% carbon SD masts, and Streamlined alu extensions, plenty of catapults but always held onto boom. Down to 3 sails for windfoiling (8.0/7.2/5.8), 1 boom, 1 mast, 1 board, and 1 foil with 2 wings, covers 8-25+ knots. Can fit all gear (including 2 sails) in a VW Passat (including completely assembled 95 cm foil with 80 cm wide wing) with rear seats folded down, or all the equipment in a Toyota Venza with rear seats folded down. No room for a passenger in Passat front passenger seat, but could in Venza.
Kiting - less gear to shove in the car, get away with small car
. Lines a hassle, launching site very important. Pain in the butt if you want a quick rest. Kiting more dangerous.
Windsurfing - more gear to shove in car. Launch anywhere, rest when you want. Way less dangerous.
Expense wise - how far you want to go with each sport.
Suppose it comes down to which one your more passionate about, or just do both
Kit (windfsurfing, kiting, whatever) is like a gas -it fills all the space you have available. So while kite gear has more wind range, you'll simply end up buying more kites, boards, foils to fill the space vacated by windsurfing gear. So stick to windsurfing. It'll be cheaper in the long run.
Select to expand quoteBarryDazz said..
Is kiting less prone to gear breakage and is it easier and less expensive to maintain a working set of gear?
thanks,
Barry
I don't kite but from observation I would say stay away from trees Charlie Brown.
Kiting more pain. Kites WAY less durable as constructed light so it can fly. After a few seasons kites and lines start getting shelved cause risk factors get higher.
On the other hand, I've got sails, booms, masts from the early 90s that are still perfectly usable....
....but on a WOO HOO (and danger) scale, kites win by a country mile.
