I agree with you Waveslave.
But why should we (windsurfers)? Why shouldn't you (kiters)?
Thats like saying "I drive a big landcruiser, therefore you in the Mini should get out of
my way when I illegally driving on your side of the road".
OR. Would you like it if a jet ski rider was in the position of the kiter and a kiter was
in the position of the windsurfer?
Needless to say i'm still gunna bail before I hit strings.
I don't get it!
It seems like they BOTH make a b line for each other.
The kiter was cranking hard downwind and the windsurfer is reaching for all he is worth, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even see each other.
A friend of mine was sued for over $60000 from a yachting accident.A broken nose was the result of the accident I believe.Ended up costing him $22000,He lost his house.Tell me rules dont count.
I truly believe 99.9% of w/s and kiters do care and do try to avoid any sort of incident,It just takes 1 #%!* head.
Learners are another storey alltogether ,Kiters and W/S, Though Kiters seem to have a steeper learning curve than W/S god bless their little cotton sox
.
Try to cut them both some slack.Actually if learners marked their masts/lines with surveyers tape it would make things a lot easier for everybody.
Back to the #%!* heads,talking to them will just get you abuse so make sure the "injured party" knows who they are so they may take whatever steps they deem appropriate[}:)].Help clean up both sports.
I think that the video clip doesnt show the whole picture.
We only see a few seconds before the crash.
Where was the location? The windsurfer was on starboard and looked to me as if he was bearing away to aviod the crash course?
And that wasnt a wave. The kiter looked like he was kooking it and out of control.
Why would a kiter bear off so fast down wind towards another person?
Kiters cant ride waves. They just sling shot down the line until they can dig a rail in the channel causing massive amounts of water spraying in the air. Radical!
So why didnt the kiter in the video boost over the windsurfer. He just passed a perfect opportunity to show off and do a "look at me, look at me" stunt.
Kiters dont do tricks, they do stunts.
Oops, I forgot to put theses smilies in
God forbid someone might take this post seriously.
> If you are on a collision-course with a kiter with no room for avoidance....
You dork, this thread is how to prevent collisions. Not about ignoring other people until it's too late. With this attitude, were you the kiter on the video ???
The guy coming in, and being upwind, must look out for others, simple as that. Same as if a kite was going out and a W/S was coming in: the W/S would have to look out for the kite.
A strong possibility here is that the kiters is not in control (again), and/or being a beginner or some gear problem or too worried about his lines to look out for collision (not uncommon the lines worries thing).
Hey slave, I keep telling everyone thats the way we do it down here, but nobody will listen!!!!!!
I cannot believe this, why dont you guys want to solve the problem. Why cant you just stick with port and starboard rules, why confuse every one with my wave his wave Mickey Mouses's wave, just stick with port and starboard its bloody simple.
The whole point of being in the waves is to ride waves, not to abide by some rules that obviously work well for most conditions but would totally stuff up wave riding!!!!!
If it's big and dangerous, the sailor coming out has to have right of way.
Any thing else is just stupid.
(regardless of how a court of law would interpret a collision)
If it's not dangerous and the waves are easy to get thru, then it's the guy going down the line that gets consideration.
It's called common courtesy, and looking after everybody's interest.
If you're not into wave riding and don't understand them it's best to stay out of the way, otherwise you could stuff up everybody else's day.
It's happened here before, people riding straight thru the wave zone wondering why everybody's giving them rude signs.
> why cant you just stick with port and starboard rules
Because the application of the rule would be different depending on whether the wind was north or south in Sydney, for instance. Doesn't make sense.
Your name has a sail number, you must be a racer and then the ROW rule makes sense for most head-on, flat water conditions where both know the rules. It don't in waves.
> just stick with port and starboard its bloody simple
If it's that simple, then why is it that sunday sailors in perfect flat conditions don't apply it ?
so is there a sign on the beach to tell us all when it is big and dangerous and when it is not big and dangerous?
When sailing or driving, the idea is to anticipate what everyone is going to do, as well as telegraphing your intentions clearly to the other parties. This lets everyone's sphere of influence expand, so your actions overlap and interact with the other people around you. When everyone shows the proper courtesy (and is aware of what's going on around them), you will never ever get into a situation that is anywhere close to a collision.
Just like driving, it's the inexperienced parties that are a danger to others because they aren't fully aware of what's going on around them. A properly executed lane merge is a balletic verse of poetry, just like two sailors sharing a 'party wave'.
Expand your horizons, don't think about whether YOU are in the right or wrong, but more shift your viewpoint outward. Think about how someone in a helicopter 200 metres above you would expect everyone to behave, and let that influence your actions.
There is no spoon
Well said Nebs
Aus4, if you can't tell if it's hard or dangerous to get out, you shouldn't be going out there!!!!!
Isn't that obvious?????
You're only going to put your self and people around you in danger.
That's the whole problem with "rules" In waves there really aren't any, it comes down to individual judgment, common sense and anticipation.
On every body's neck there's a large round thing with soft gooey grey stuff inside, it's there to be used.
Obviously in a lot of cases it isn't!
But rules aren't going to help that, an idiot is an idiot whether there's rules or not.
The whole thing is when going into waves, especially if it's crowded not to assume anything!
Different breaks have different local etiquettes, watch and see what the locals do, or ask.
You can't expect people who've been sailing one particular way for the last 30 years, with no problems, to suddenly change their ways, because they're suddenly getting tourists who think every body should obey the rules they sail with.
A small percentage of the locals here read these forums, or have anything to do with "organised" sailing. So if you think it's possible to influence them somehow forget it.
isnt that the point to have one universal rule that everybody knows or if they dont they can read it somewhere instead of a different rule in every town that confuses everybody...one day you may forget what town you are in and then you will be in trouble
This whole debate is pointless.
Waves aren't like flat water. Those who wavesail understand this.
Here's another analogy:
Imagine you're in your local shopping centre. There are people everywhere, going in all directions. Imagine you're walking down the middle of the corridor.
What rule do you follow so that you don't bump into someone?
Hmmm?
The reason you don't give a simple answer is because there isn't one. It depends! Do you always go to the right of someone? Do you always turn left? Do you not deviate from your path because the breeze is blowing from your right? Even if you're about to run over a little kid who is oblivious to everything except the chocolate bar they're eating?
Don't be silly. What you do is expand your consciousness to control the space around you. If a gap opens up, you swerve in that direction. If you see a granny up ahead with a walking frame, you deviate away so that they have a clear path in whatever direction they're going.
This system seems to work well for everyone in shopping centres, without any signs on the door saying "Everyone must pass to the right, except when overtaking, and steam gives way to sail". What bollocks.
Agree Nebs we should always avoid a collision if possible but I doubt The windsurfer in the vid would have had time to do much the kiter was moving downwind pretty quickly.
Here's a ? when is a wave a wave and not a swell does it need to be breaking.
Reading a few posts GOT UP TO ONE OF USERS RAVES
....AND LAUGHED...............it really hit home when USER refered to the kiter having his right hand forward.......... ETCETCETCETC.NO IDEA AT ALL.
stop even calling yourself and ex windsurfer.... its embarracing
YOU ARE A FKN TOSSSER GET OFF THE WATER AND FILL THE BATH.
YOU ARE THE KOOK IN THIS CLIP
.........Thats the way to start the week.
Good point about the vision aspect .........Aus404
I allways give way to sail when steaming on my windsurfer.(cant carry much coal thou)...It all comes down to common sense really. Show intent early.Look over your shoulder b4 you jibe, be aware of who is out of control, have fun.
Don't confuse 'right of way' with common courtesy. If someone's planing out through the break, and they enforce their right of way and mess up someone else's wave then they're still a dddiiiccckkk head.
Right of way rules need to be simple so in situations when they're required people don't need to think about which hand is forward, am I sailing at a break with Slave and Decrepit or King of the Point, do I have my boardshorts over my wetsuit, etc....
Seems like everyone is in agreeance that best option is to avoid collisions. This is a good thing.
Theres lots of people who's famous last words were
"They were in the wrong, I Had the Right Of Way"
Avoid collisions at all costs
Nobody Wins
It furken hurts when you prang
end of sermon
Ain't that the truth
