I've always been designing real different and unconventional board shapes, sketching things on paper. I have a technical drawing background. I feel windsurf boards haven't really progressed enough and taken the sport to another level.
A lot of people may disagree with me but you can find boards shaped in the 70s that dont look that different to modern boards; and sailing and kiteboarding are now faster record holders.
Does anyone know where I can go with my designs? I've emailed some of the big name companies but of course havent heard anything back from them.
Happy to work with local shapers or companies. All of my shapes are speed or slalom related.
Shapers are generally a very proud breed, and swear by their own shapes.
The closest you'll get for a shaper to take any of your designs seriously, would be if you were to pay him to shape you one, that way he gets paid, and you can try out your design for yourself.
But good luck with anything more than that, I suspect your responses will remain the same.......... silence.
Select to expand quoteMastbender said..
Shapers are generally a very proud breed, and swear by their own shapes.
The closest you'll get for a shaper to take any of your designs seriously, would be if you were to pay him to shape you one, that way he gets paid, and you can try out your design for yourself.
But good luck with anything more than that, I suspect your responses will remain the same.......... silence.
Too true, with the thousands of hours of progressive testing and building that goes into your own designs , it very hard to commit your limited time to these one off designs that may or not work . When you buy a board from a custom shaper you are not only paying in the final price for the better materials ,but also the years of experience in build quality and progressive design testing .
If you have an eye for drawing you'd probably be very artistic and good at shaping, I think everyone should have a go at shaping their own board, I reckon you should by a block of foam and give shaping a go yourself, then take it to a custom surfboard maker and see if they will glass it for you. Then you'll have the satisfaction of shaping your own board and seeing if they work. Contact the glasser first to see what resin they use and what foam and its density its compatible with.
Select to expand quoteR1DER said..
If you have an eye for drawing you'd probably be very artistic and good at shaping, I think everyone should have a go at shaping their own board, I reckon you should by a block of foam and give shaping a go yourself, then take it to a custom surfboard maker and see if they will glass it for you. Then you'll have the satisfaction of shaping your own board and seeing if they work. Contact the glasser first to see what resin they use and what foam and its density its compatible with.
Sounds good, but have to get equipment and learn to shape. Guess the best thing is to make friends with a shaper and work on them on my own time.
Select to expand quotehoop said..
Its just talk until you show us your designs.
I reckon it's either a rubber flapper behind the fin or speed holes..
"First they ignore you, then laugh at you and hate you
Then they fight you..... then you win....
This is the fastest sailing vessel. It's similar to a windsurfer.
Design a windsurfer version.
Select to expand quoteterminal said..
This is the fastest sailing vessel. It's similar to a windsurfer.
Foil to counteract the sail... not on a windsurfer.
Horizontal foil to self-stabilise the lifting moment... not on a windsurfing sail.
Hull streamlined to the apparent wind... no windsurfer hull has this.
Can only go in one direction... umm... both directions.
... it has a sail-like surface.
Select to expand quoteterminal said..
This is the fastest sailing vessel. It's similar to a windsurfer.
Design a windsurfer version.
IanK has actually tried this, by adjusting the fin position...
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/Canting-Fin-research-Paper/
This is a windsurf trimaran. That is one possible route to take for a bi-directional windsurfer with J foils.
Sailrocket is a uni-directional speed machine. Some speed windsurfers have only one boom side and an asymmetrical fin. It would be a lot easier to design a unidirectional J-foil windsurfer, but a bi-directional one could be done where the leeward J-foil was clear of the water.
I have read an article by Kevin Pritchard where he mentions the Starboard designer Tiesda You (who is a small guy) keeping up with Kevin speedwise by using a trimaran windsurfer he had built.
Since the J-foil takes the pull of the sail and the windsurfer has to control the position of the sail, the windsurfer might be positioned inside the sail?
Why dont you just make one and see how it goes or pay someone to make one or put drawings up.
^ Now thats flat water!
Seriously, what a brilliant simple idea. It looks like a lot of fun.
Select to expand quoteNelsonFoils said..
"First they ignore you, then laugh at you and hate you
Then they fight you..... then you win....
Then they put your board in a mould and sell it as theirs!
Select to expand quoteSimon100 said..
Why dont you just make one and see how it goes or pay someone to make one or put drawings up.
At the moment I'm reaching out for board designers to get in touch with me.
I can make it myself but I'm thinking more along the lines of getting an old board and chopping it up. Basically just using the mast base and footstrap inserts. Way cheaper than making it from scratch.
Windsurf sails and boards designs have pretty much gone all they can go in terms of speed records because its inherently an inefficient system where the sail pushes down on mast foot needing lift from board, instead of pure forward drive. I mean its great for having fun and blasting along but I'm talking about wind powered speed records here.
So any maverick board shapers get in touch.
Select to expand quoteGfly said..Simon100 said..
Why dont you just make one and see how it goes or pay someone to make one or put drawings up.
At the moment I'm reaching out for board designers to get in touch with me.
I can make it myself but I'm thinking more along the lines of getting an old board and chopping it up. Basically just using the mast base and footstrap inserts. Way cheaper than making it from scratch.
Windsurf sails and boards designs have pretty much gone all they can go in terms of speed records because its inherently an inefficient system where the sail pushes down on mast foot needing lift from board, instead of pure forward drive. I mean its great for having fun and blasting along but I'm talking about wind powered speed records here.
So any maverick board shapers get in touch.
OK - I have now realised you were not stuck for ideas, just stuck for someone to sell your ideas to.
The most progressive board company over the years IMO has been Starboard. They have been open to new ideas, but the designs have all been from within the company AFAIK.
Select to expand quoteGfly said..Simon100 said..
Why dont you just make one and see how it goes or pay someone to make one or put drawings up.
At the moment I'm reaching out for board designers to get in touch with me.
I can make it myself but I'm thinking more along the lines of getting an old board and chopping it up. Basically just using the mast base and footstrap inserts. Way cheaper than making it from scratch.
Windsurf sails and boards designs have pretty much gone all they can go in terms of speed records because its inherently an inefficient system where the sail pushes down on mast foot needing lift from board, instead of pure forward drive. I mean its great for having fun and blasting along but I'm talking about wind powered speed records here.
So any maverick board shapers get in touch.
I think you may have missed the point that a lot of shapers have come up with ideas, tried them, and then canned them, or developed them if they worked. They won't be that interested in talking to someone that has drawn up what they think is going to work, but haven't actually tried or tested the designs. Anyone can draw something up and say 'this will work', but the reality is very different. A shaper is not just someone that shapes a board, they are someone that refines that shape based on feedback.
No one is going to reach out to you and say 'hey, I don't know what I am doing, you say you know what you are doing, let me build it for you'.
Does the sail push down on the board? I always thought that the sail was pushing the board and providing some lift. It certainly feels like lift when the harness lines are holding my weight.
As food for thought, I saw someone come up with what they thought was a great novel idea for new windsurfing boards, take it to a windy location, and the guy that tried it struggled to get it planing. So, what one person thought was a great idea, turned out to have problems that made it unworkable. Without testing the idea, how do you know yours is any better?
It's great to have ideas but I think if you go to anyone with an untested and undeveloped idea saying that you don't think anyone is doing enough but you're about to change the world you''re going to get some doors slammed in your face. Saying things on a public forum like "they put your board in a mould and sell it as theirs" is not really going to be helpful either.
I can assure you that there are plenty of people trying all sorts of innovative and crazy stuff. There is no shortage of ideas out there and people willing to build and develop their own ideas. Some end up working some get canned.
Once you've tried and proven your idea and you have some results, try approaching manufacturers again I think you'll have more luck.
I drew a picture of the worlds fastest car once...it was red ;)
As above - have fun shaping and experimenting yourself, or pay a shaper to make it for you. But even the worlds best shaper won't guarantee the performance of an untested idea.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead[b]
[/b]Anthropologist
I have occasionally wondered if the sport would be much different if The Windsurfer patent had been upheld. My understanding is that to sell sailboarding products you needed a licence from Hoyle and the he limited those licences. For example, I don't think Windglider had a licence in the lead up to the 1984 Olympics.
Should I feel sympathy for Hoyle because he lost his patent battle, the Darby always seemed like a bit of a dud to me. Obviously it has been great for the sport to have unfettered development but harsh on the designer. In the current era it seems very difficult for any single individual to protect their ideas from being ripped off and to get credit/reward for their innovation.
Select to expand quoteGfly said..
I've always been designing real different and unconventional board shapes, sketching things on paper. I have a technical drawing background. I feel windsurf boards haven't really progressed enough and taken the sport to another level.
A lot of people may disagree with me but you can find boards shaped in the 70s that dont look that different to modern boards; and sailing and kiteboarding are now faster record holders.
Does anyone know where I can go with my designs? I've emailed some of the big name companies but of course havent heard anything back from them.
Happy to work with local shapers or companies. All of my shapes are speed or slalom related.
You gotta be kidding, maybe to the untrained eye a 70 s board and modern board might look similar in that they are both a long shape have fins and a place to put the mast. Your statement really says you have no idea, so your ideas are going to reflect this.
The OP should post some pics of his designs. He seems to want the world to beat a path to his door but has no runs on the board (yes, I like metaphors).
Select to expand quoteMainbreak said..Gfly said..
I've always been designing real different and unconventional board shapes, sketching things on paper. I have a technical drawing background. I feel windsurf boards haven't really progressed enough and taken the sport to another level.
A lot of people may disagree with me but you can find boards shaped in the 70s that dont look that different to modern boards; and sailing and kiteboarding are now faster record holders.
Does anyone know where I can go with my designs? I've emailed some of the big name companies but of course havent heard anything back from them.
Happy to work with local shapers or companies. All of my shapes are speed or slalom related.
You gotta be kidding, maybe to the untrained eye a 70 s board and modern board might look similar in that they are both a long shape have fins and a place to put the mast. Your statement really says you have no idea, so your ideas are going to reflect this.
Stick your head back in the sand since you probably dont go out in the water. A place to put your mast is called a mast base. Its obvious you've never sailed so what are you even doing on here.
Shapers were more experimental in the 70s and 80s.. Dedicated speed guns more or less stayed the same.
I think you mean mast track? Mast base isn't part of the board.
Your idea sound valid, can't wait!
Select to expand quoteGfly said..
Stick your head back in the sand since you probably dont go out in the water. A place to put your mast is called a mast base. Its obvious you've never sailed so what are you even doing on here.
Shapers were more experimental in the 70s and 80s.. Dedicated speed guns more or less stayed the same.
I'll bite... The "experimental" you speak of, is often replaced with "CAD and CFD designed".
Differences between 70's speed-board and a modern speed board.
Obvious items:
- Shorter
- thicker overall
- rail-shape optimised for water release (vs. just being whatever the board-builder could be bothered sanding)
- tail kick and/or cut-outs
- mast track placement
- sunken mast track to lower the CoE
try this for comparison: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/Windsurfing-Speed-Sailing-History/
... and say a Lockwood/Mistral, etc...
Not-so-obvious items:
- Entry rocker designed to generate a specific amount of lift at a specific speed, to allow the board to "hover"
- tail-kick angle designed specifically to be parallel to the water surface, at speed
- bottom shape designed specifically to shed air so that it doesn't get compressed onto the fin (thus reducing the possibility of ventilation)
- outline designed to increase lift toward the front of the board, so as to avoid touching-down in chop
Compare old vs new:
