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The "little things"

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Created by Bristol > 9 months ago, 19 May 2015
Bristol
ACT, 347 posts
19 May 2015 4:28PM
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Modern sailboarding equipment is the end product of some 45+ years of incremental evolution and refinement, following Drake and Schweitzer’s remarkable breakthrough invention of (ta da, drum roll, please) the “Windsurfer".

As inspired as that "Mark 1" version was, competition from the open marketplace brought massive improvements to the original design. There have been giant leaps forward for end-user convenience. Consider item such as the two-piece mast, footstraps, retractable centreboard, the telescopic boom, the clamp-on boom, sail cambers, harnesses and the lighter, stronger and more durable materials used in the construction of generally everything - epoxy, carbon, aluminium, kevlar and the like.

You'd have to think that all developments for convenience were done ages ago, and any future changes would be only be of a cosmetic nature.

Well, maybe not. Here are five modifications I would like manufacturers to incorporate, none of which are radical.

Suggestion: Mould a graduated scale into the plastic innards (the bits that overlap, and Velcro together) of footstraps.
Justification: Setting footstrap width is a bit hit-and-miss. Having a scale would make it simple to consistently set or adjust the width across the four straps.

Suggestion: Put a serial number on every sail.
Justification: Boards have serial numbers. A sail serial number would assist identification, should the sail be misappropriated (aka stolen). A serial number would enable the identification of the model / year of manufacture.

Suggestion: Mark the luff of a sail at the position where the mast pieces join.
Justification: Having worked the mast into the luff, it's vital, before downhauling, to check that the mast pieces are still properly seated. The mark indicates where to check. (I believe that some sail manufacturers do provide such a mark. My new Naish sail doesn't have such a mark. Nor did its predecessor, also a Naish. Hmmm. Maybe, I've been too loyal to the brand.)

Suggestion: Provide a tie-on point at the head of a sail, either as a small webbing loop, a grommet or a “D” ring.
Justification: To be used for suspending sails for drying. "Turban top" sails are OK. With non-turban top sails, I put a grommet in the sail head.

Suggestion: Provide better drain holes for booms.
Justification: Water is slow to drain out of booms. Sand can accumulate inside the tubes. I have drilled drain holes in the head and the end-caps.

That’s my wish list. What else? Are the manufacturers listening?

sick_em_rex
NSW, 1600 posts
19 May 2015 4:49PM
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Bristol a super easy solution for the mast join is to tape (gaffa or duct) your join. That way it doesn't come apart and it also stops grit getting inside making it potentially stick together. No need then to have a mast join position print on the luff. It's also null and void when people use tip extensions as opposed to base extentions.

stehsegler
WA, 3542 posts
19 May 2015 3:32PM
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Bristol, a lot of those suggestions are already included in the Severne Gear.

EG no need no need to check if mast pieces are still together on Severne masts. They have a rubber plug in the bottom piece that causes a certain amount of friction with the top section and keeps the mast in place as well as water out.

RE tie on point on top of sail, both Severn and Neil Pryde sails have those.

RE drain holes for booms. A quality carbon boom will have seals inside the arms or have a seal at the end of the extension piece to prevent the entire boom from flooding. Never had a problem on the Severne or Neil Pryde booms with this. The wholes on the Severne booms are big enough to prevent any sand issues.

RE serial number, can't remember if the Severne sails have them but Neil Pryde already has that. I think the earliest production model I once had was 005. I can't remember exactly but I think the manufacture date is also encoded in the Neil Pryde serial number.

RE scale on velcro straps, yes that would make sense. That said some manufacturers don't have the velcro system but instead use straps and buckles... can't remember who though. Also, I find the best way to adjust the velcro style straps is to put your foot into he strap while you are adjusting them. It's a bit fiddly but seems to get the best fit you are after.


SHQ
VIC, 322 posts
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19 May 2015 5:41PM
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stehsegler said..
Bristol, a lot of those suggestions are already included in the Severne Gear.

EG no need no need to check if mast pieces are still together on Severne masts. They have a rubber plug in the bottom piece that causes a certain amount of friction with the top section and keeps the mast in place as well as water out.

RE tie on point on top of sail, both Severn and Neil Pryde sails have those.

RE drain holes for booms. A quality carbon boom will have seals inside the arms or have a seal at the end of the extension piece to prevent the entire boom from flooding. Never had a problem on the Severne or Neil Pryde booms with this. The wholes on the Severne booms are big enough to prevent any sand issues.

RE serial number, can't remember if the Severne sails have them but Neil Pryde already has that. I think the earliest production model I once had was 005. I can't remember exactly but I think the manufacture date is also encoded in the Neil Pryde serial number.

RE scale on velcro straps, yes that would make sense. That said some manufacturers don't have the velcro system but instead use straps and buckles... can't remember who though. Also, I find the best way to adjust the velcro style straps is to put your foot into he strap while you are adjusting them. It's a bit fiddly but seems to get the best fit you are after.




Adding to stehseglers comments, Neilpryde sails already have an indicator on the luff sleeve to show where the mast join is. I do like the idea of a scale on the straps though - I'll pass that feeback onto JP and Tabou - good one!

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8224 posts
19 May 2015 5:47PM
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stehsegler said..
Bristol, a lot of those suggestions are already included in the Severne Gear.

EG no need no need to check if mast pieces are still together on Severne masts. They have a rubber plug in the bottom piece that causes a certain amount of friction with the top section and keeps the mast in place as well as water out.

RE tie on point on top of sail, both Severn and Neil Pryde sails have those.

RE drain holes for booms. A quality carbon boom will have seals inside the arms or have a seal at the end of the extension piece to prevent the entire boom from flooding. Never had a problem on the Severne or Neil Pryde booms with this. The wholes on the Severne booms are big enough to prevent any sand issues.

RE serial number, can't remember if the Severne sails have them but Neil Pryde already has that. I think the earliest production model I once had was 005. I can't remember exactly but I think the manufacture date is also encoded in the Neil Pryde serial number.

RE scale on velcro straps, yes that would make sense. That said some manufacturers don't have the velcro system but instead use straps and buckles... can't remember who though. Also, I find the best way to adjust the velcro style straps is to put your foot into he strap while you are adjusting them. It's a bit fiddly but seems to get the best fit you are after.




I have a 430 Blueline severne mast and I find it wants to push apart as I insert it into the luff- air between the top & bottom? So it needs taping more than my other masts that don't do that..

seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
19 May 2015 6:41PM
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loft also have the joining mark on the sleeve
drake straps on Isonics have the graduation
pryde have the little loop to attach or put a screwdriver to de-rig

wish all extension would have the pulley at the same spot so you don't have to add more or less cm..
wish all boards would have a large hole to insert/remove the fin screws with fingers (my patriks don't have them, pain in the..)
wish the marking on the rear part of the boom would be (for example ) "210" instead of a 180 boom + 30 on the rear part (yes it does my brain sometimes)
wish sail makers would get together and choose a mast curve once and for all.....
wish vent plug was in front of mast track (easier to spot when forgotten exocet did it and I saw another brand with it)

PKenny
SA, 242 posts
19 May 2015 7:06PM
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seanhogan said..
loft also have the joining mark on the sleeve
drake straps on Isonics have the graduation
pryde have the little loop to attach or put a screwdriver to de-rig

wish all extension would have the pulley at the same spot so you don't have to add more or less cm..
wish all boards would have a large hole to insert/remove the fin screws with fingers (my patriks don't have them, pain in the..)
wish the marking on the rear part of the boom would be (for example ) "210" instead of a 180 boom + 30 on the rear part (yes it does my brain sometimes)
wish sail makers would get together and choose a mast curve once and for all.....
wish vent plug was in front of mast track (easier to spot when forgotten exocet did it and I saw another brand with it)


Severne Enigma booms are good to go. No adding up. Just read, set and hope for the best.

r2908
NSW, 214 posts
19 May 2015 7:48PM
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I've always wondered why sails don't have a type of water repelling coating . like a silicon spay etc. . a wet sail is heavy right? . also for people with a two sail quiver like me . why not do away with mast extns and have two bottom end masts with pulleys rivited . less parts means less breakages and lighter . also a non adjustable boom would be nice and stiff . to make things so perfect I understand would be costly .

ka43
NSW, 3091 posts
19 May 2015 7:54PM
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sboardcrazy said "I find it wants to push apart as I insert it into the luff- air between the top & bottom?"
Sue, Im sure that would be you talking!!

Mark _australia
WA, 23435 posts
19 May 2015 5:57PM
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seanhogan said..
l
wish vent plug was in front of mast track (easier to spot when forgotten exocet did it and I saw another brand with it)


no, vent plug close to rear - so you cant put the mast base in, as the screw sitting high up stops it

craze
48 posts
19 May 2015 6:20PM
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seanhogan said..
loft also have the joining mark on the sleeve
drake straps on Isonics have the graduation
pryde have the little loop to attach or put a screwdriver to de-rig

wish all extension would have the pulley at the same spot so you don't have to add more or less cm..
wish all boards would have a large hole to insert/remove the fin screws with fingers (my patriks don't have them, pain in the..)
wish the marking on the rear part of the boom would be (for example ) "210" instead of a 180 boom + 30 on the rear part (yes it does my brain sometimes)
wish sail makers would get together and choose a mast curve once and for all.....
wish vent plug was in front of mast track (easier to spot when forgotten exocet did it and I saw another brand with it)


Some sweet ideas........I would love to have a universal mast concept

Different race sails requiring specific masts that differ from brand to brand is a real limiting factor when it comes to upgrading or changing brands

Wish free race, free ride boards would still be tuttle instead of powerbox,

Vent plug out should release a flap that closes the mast track, making for killsafe system between plug and sail being attached to board

Wish sails actually rigged to the manufacturers specifications.............

A new concept at the back end of boards for the specific use of deltas, plus fin boxes and the area in front of the fin box to incorporate the demands of the delta

Boom heads that actually were manufactured with the basic acceptance that the friction between the boom head and boom will create wear requiring tightening, instead they seem to make it so after a yr its lose, sloppy, with no way of tightening head other than removing it, and adding more material to boom

For high end concepts, the adjustable outhaul inside the boom instead of outside creating drag

Really, the only wish im serious about is I hope some board manufacturers will consider making a specific line of speed/slalom boards with the delta in mind,
I think with a bit of thought from those in know, they could help reduce the let go factor, and incorporate a rail that will allow better grip cross wind

The deltas have allowed a lot of sailors to enjoy great conditions and good results, but if the delta could still perform like a normal weedie it would be great

I would also love a fin maker come up with a real shallow water, light wind fin, still allowing people to access shallow stuff with wider boards, bigger sails




barri
SA, 317 posts
19 May 2015 8:44PM
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One mast curve would be huge.... would it see people turning gearing over with less hesitation????

stehsegler
WA, 3542 posts
19 May 2015 8:54PM
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sboardcrazy said..


I have a 430 Blueline severne mast and I find it wants to push apart as I insert it into the luff- air between the top & bottom? So it needs taping more than my other masts that don't do that..


It does the same on the Redline masts when they are new. This will settle after a while... or at least it did on the masts I have. I have started taking the masts with electric tape though as I found that sand at some wave spots can be so fine it finds it's way into the mast making it tricky to get it apart.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
19 May 2015 11:33PM
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AFAIK. all sails have serial numbers now, but they are often not readily visible without searching for them.

Duct tape is vastly better than electrical tape for mast joins!

All KA sails have a loop sewn into the head!

You only want drain holes in the rear ends of your booms at most. Don't want them in the front to they might sink! Remember that holes let sand in as well as water out!

Everyone using the identical mast curve might be convenient for some but would stifle development and progress. Also, I actually like to have a few different mast curves laying around to tune certain sails for specific things.

Vent plugs in boards?? Don't know about them. Aren't they just for jet setters? Oh, yes, some brands, like Carbon Art, come with Goretex valves that one never has to even think about.

Yep. Proper total length markings on all booms is a no-brainer. I don't get why some don't have it either.

Delta fin boards? Maybe there could be some specific design changes that could make them work, but it is a myth that water pushing on high speed boards rails provide any lateral resistance at all. (By high speed I mean anything much more than 5 knots over planing speed.) For shallow water it might be more productive to pursue bi or tri-fin setups with efficient shape fins rather than those horribly compromised Deltas. Unless of course, thick weed is also the problem!

stehsegler
WA, 3542 posts
19 May 2015 9:54PM
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sailquik said..
Duct tape is vastly better than electrical tape for mast joins!



I have had problems with duct tape leaving residue ... I guess leaving it in the car during summer causes it to melt or something.

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
20 May 2015 9:10AM
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I'd like all boards to be Tuttle box, but I'm sure all those with powerbox fins would disagree.
I won't consider buying a board that is not Tuttlebox, and that limits the choices.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8224 posts
20 May 2015 1:29PM
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ka43 said..
sboardcrazy said "I find it wants to push apart as I insert it into the luff- air between the top & bottom?"
Sue, Im sure that would be you talking!!


..Might try holding my breathe next time I rig...

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8224 posts
20 May 2015 1:33PM
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Windxtasy said..
I'd like all boards to be Tuttle box, but I'm sure all those with powerbox fins would disagree.
I won't consider buying a board that is not Tuttlebox, and that limits the choices.


I have about 15 + fins--mostly powerbox + US. Now I have some slalom gear I need to purchase more in tuttle - ugh!

AusMoz
QLD, 1497 posts
20 May 2015 5:50PM
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Windxtasy said..
I'd like all boards to be Tuttle box, but I'm sure all those with powerbox fins would disagree.
I won't consider buying a board that is not Tuttlebox, and that limits the choices.


+1

kato
VIC, 3506 posts
20 May 2015 7:16PM
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Yep all boards to be Tuttle. I do have a few old boards with that crap one bolt system that just loses fins when they bump something. I have re boxed a few to Tuttle.

I,d also like replacement covers for foot straps. I hate throwing out good straps when all they need is a new cover.

Don't want extra holes in booms, mine are very good at keeping the water out

Carbon Art boards have a great vent plug system that's very idiot proof

All boom heads had a double hinge like the "Sunshine" brand, no need for a spacer when swapping from RDM to SDM and it provided a better grip on the mast

Not a fan of the Delta's and would hate to have any boards set up for just one style fin

Ban all metal zips on any windsurfing product, give them to the Kiters





seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
20 May 2015 7:34PM
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+1 on metal zips !!!

terminal
1421 posts
20 May 2015 5:58PM
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Harness lines have to swing at the right rate. You want them to hang loose enough so that the fin does not get caught in the harness line when getting the mast upwind of the board for a waterstart. You also don't want it to hang so loose that its swinging about and accidentally hooking you in. There is a stiffness that is just right so it hangs clear of the hook but will swing easily into place to hook in.

Goretex type board ventilation plugs are maintenance free - you just always leave them alone and they breathe when necessary.

musorianin
QLD, 597 posts
20 May 2015 9:12PM
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Get all pulleys on bottom of sails and mast extensions lined up instead of often being at 90 degrees depending on sail or extension maker.

Ian K
WA, 4155 posts
20 May 2015 7:46PM
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A resistor colour code for sail sizes. So hard to read numbers backwards through mono film. Especially in hire centres. You've all taken out a ready-rigged 6.7 when you wanted a 7.6? Something like the Neil Pryde logo would do the job.




The standard NP logo would be on a 6.6, the inner dot would be red on a 6.2. etc





Mark _australia
WA, 23435 posts
20 May 2015 7:53PM
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^^^ so my orange and black Combats are all 3.0's?? No wonder I plane later than everyone

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
20 May 2015 11:27PM
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stehsegler said..
sailquik said..
Duct tape is vastly better than electrical tape for mast joins!



I have had problems with duct tape leaving residue ... I guess leaving it in the car during summer causes it to melt or something.


Use the plastic stuff, not the cloth backed! I've never even seen any residue.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
20 May 2015 11:31PM
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musorianin said..
Get all pulleys on bottom of sails and mast extensions lined up instead of often being at 90 degrees depending on sail or extension maker.


Ha ha!

This one is just an intelligence test! If you know how to thread the ones that are at right angles to each other they work just as well, if not better.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
20 May 2015 11:35PM
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terminal said..
Harness lines have to swing at the right rate. You want them to hang loose enough so that the fin does not get caught in the harness line when getting the mast upwind of the board for a waterstart. You also don't want it to hang so loose that its swinging about and accidentally hooking you in. There is a stiffness that is just right so it hangs clear of the hook but will swing easily into place to hook in.

Goretex type board ventilation plugs are maintenance free - you just always leave them alone and they breathe when necessary.


Want: Harness lines that are not sewn into their webbing so you can just change the plastic tubes or ropes when they wear out. Then adjust weight of rope/tube for correct swing rate!

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
20 May 2015 11:58PM
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stehsegler said..

sailquik said..
Duct tape is vastly better than electrical tape for mast joins!




I have had problems with duct tape leaving residue ... I guess leaving it in the car during summer causes it to melt or something.


I thought there were laws against duct taping the kids in the car while you go windsurfing.

Mastbender
1972 posts
21 May 2015 3:16AM
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sailquik said..

terminal said..
Harness lines have to swing at the right rate. You want them to hang loose enough so that the fin does not get caught in the harness line when getting the mast upwind of the board for a waterstart. You also don't want it to hang so loose that its swinging about and accidentally hooking you in. There is a stiffness that is just right so it hangs clear of the hook but will swing easily into place to hook in.

Goretex type board ventilation plugs are maintenance free - you just always leave them alone and they breathe when necessary.



Want: Harness lines that are not sewn into their webbing so you can just change the plastic tubes or ropes when they wear out. Then adjust weight of rope/tube for correct swing rate!


Just go back about 20 years, that's all we had before, but sand would get between the tubes (1/2" poly water tubing bought separately) and the lines on the inside and wear them out faster.

mr love
VIC, 2401 posts
21 May 2015 11:07AM
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The complete banning of zinc die cast zip closures on anything intended to go close to salt water. Just a thought.



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"The "little things"" started by Bristol