Morning all,
Are there any Sailworks Hucker riders who are about 70kg and 170cm ? (or do you know any small riders that use Huckers ? - If so, could you get me in contact with them ?). I am borrowing a friend's non-Sailworks mast (that is not bend curve or stiffness compatible to this sail) and this mast makes the sail rig and perform perfectly (Nb/ this sail has blown me away and exceeded my expectations - I'll do a review later on this year). I would like to talk to you about how you rig your Huckers to make them work for you.
Help/advice from manufacturers has been generic/limited. When I buy the mast for this sail, I want to try to get it right first time. Despite my constant pleading, my friend is refusing to sell me his mast 
. Nb/ The really annoying thing is, I used to own this mast 
. I sold it to him 6 years ago.
Thanks, J
I am 171cm + 73kg and am a huge fan of the Huckers, heaps of power, good wind range and very very durable. My smallest is the 4.7 but I'm contemplating the 4.2.
Depending on conditions and type of sailing (bump and jump versus foiling) I do the following;
Foil - I can use the 4.7 in 10-20knots comfortably on the Naish foil. I tighten up the leech even more by using a 430 mast (have used a Goya RDM and now Ezzy Hookipa RDM). Minimum downhaul if light conditions, medium+ downhaul for stronger conditions. Just a little tension on outhaul.
B&J - Ezzy Hookipa 400 mast. Lots of downhaul if its cranking, minimal downhaul if underpowered (18knots-ish). I find a small amount of -ve outhaul really gives the sail even more power but most of the time neutral- very slight +ve outhaul works best.
RDM all the way for me. Key is don't use a soft top mast.
Happy sailing
Hi Ant. For some unknown reason, I thought you were a portly gent. Could you PM me your mobile ?. I would like to have a chat.
My 4.2 seems like a sail between a 4.0 and a 5.0. I'm blown away with this sail's wind range, upwind ability.. I can't wait to get it to Stansbury or Boggy when it's nuking.
Why not email Sailworks? Dale Cook there is probably the number one Hucker rider in the world. They designed it originally for him so he could jump (or "huck") with it. Those guys are crazy-supportive any time I, or anybody I know, I have asked them for help.
Sailworks will tell you to buy their masts and spend 30 minutes doing it, trust me I've been down that road (I use Chinook RDMs which work well in almost anything that uses CC, but apparently that's why Sailworks stuff feels horrible to me).
The Hucker is not for everyone for sure. The instant power can be overwhelming. I found emailing Bruce Peterson for advise to be good but yes he can try to up-sell you on his gear, fair enough though.
I understand Sailworks' masts are typical 12% bend ("constant curve"). Many others will fill the bill.
www.unifiber.net/en/masts-selector
The Hucker sails are unique in three ways: they have a lot of luff curve; they have a lot of seam shaping; and the span-wise shaping profile is positive and progressive all the way to the top of the sail. This design creates a thicker foil profile, held higher in the sail, and with more rig tension. As such, the Hucker sails have a tighter leech, and while the leech still has progressive twist, the rate of twist is less than you would see, for example, in a Retro. The entire premise of the Hucker is to create more hang time, and the first rule of jumping is that to go big, you must first go fast, with control. When you make a jump and pull the sail horizontally over you, there is more of a Hucker sail lifting and you can fly higher and further. The 4.2 Hucker is the signature model of the Hucker range.
All of these attributes make the Hucker less sensitive to variations in mast bend. You will of course alter the shape and tension (and intended character) of the sail by using a flextop mast, but it is far less detrimental to the performance and range of the Hucker, than making a similar mast compatibility deviation than with a Retro sail. Mast specifications have two essential parameters: the stiffness and the curve profile. Think the the stiffness as the quantity of the rig tension, and the curve profile as the quality of the rig tension. I've seen just about every type of mast shoved in a Hucker, and they all seem to >work< well. However, if you want/expect the intended Hucker character and performance (as described above), then a constant curve RDM mast should be used. Stiffer masts are better for heavier riders and softer masts are better for lighter riders.
Select to expand quoteAnt-man said..
I am 171cm + 73kg and am a huge fan of the Huckers, heaps of power, good wind range and very very durable. My smallest is the 4.7 but I'm contemplating the 4.2.
Depending on conditions and type of sailing (bump and jump versus foiling) I do the following;
Foil - I can use the 4.7 in 10-20knots comfortably on the Naish foil. I tighten up the leech even more by using a 430 mast (have used a Goya RDM and now Ezzy Hookipa RDM). Minimum downhaul if light conditions, medium+ downhaul for stronger conditions. Just a little tension on outhaul.
B&J - Ezzy Hookipa 400 mast. Lots of downhaul if its cranking, minimal downhaul if underpowered (18knots-ish). I find a small amount of -ve outhaul really gives the sail even more power but most of the time neutral- very slight +ve outhaul works best.
RDM all the way for me. Key is don't use a soft top mast.
Happy sailing
The Goya & Ezzy masts are both on the soft top side. Sailworks prefers the 12% middle of the road strict CC curve for as-designed shape. However as you have discovered you can alter the designed shape by using those masts & probably get the power lower in the sail which will suit light/mid weight sailors. Not sure what mast the OP was using as he didn't say, but my guess is a Flextop leaning constant curve mast like Ezzy, Goya or Chinook as mentioned would give him what he wants...
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..
Not sure what mast the OP was using as he didn't say, but my guess is a Flextop leaning constant curve mast like Ezzy, Goya or Chinook as mentioned would give him what he wants...
That is correct GS. It's a 100% carbon CC/Flex 370 RDM from a popular sail brand that is permanently bent as **** at the ferrule. I use a 30cm extender to make the 400 that this sail needs. So the challenge for me is sourcing a mast with the same specifications and defect. I'm not going to name drop. I've already alienated local dealer during a phone call over this strange query LOL. I think I have the rigging right. When you point up wind like a race sail, you blast past a dude your size and he is on a 5.0 in gusty marginal conditions for a 5.0, and you can do that with 1 hand, then you know you have nailed the rigging. This sail is the most stable 4.x sail I have ever used. It's like a race sail in a wave sail package. It was the 4.2 size I used to struggle with until I discovered the awesome power of mast tuning 
. I put 8 masts through this Hucker. 400s, 370s, CCs, CC/Flex etc. The above mentioned mast performed the best for me.
PS/ The above mentioned local dealer was not Wind Surfing Systems. Nb/ Chris is the nicest windsurfing dealer I have dealt with. He went out of his way to help me with my 4.2 purchase, and took a day out of his schedule to give me a guided tour of his product range when I visited Melbourne 4 years ago (plus he copped a parking ticket that day). I must say, some other Australian dealers need to take a page from Chris's book and learn some customer service skills. I'll be throwing Chris as much business as I can in future.
Select to expand quotejn1 said..gorgesailor said..
Not sure what mast the OP was using as he didn't say, but my guess is a Flextop leaning constant curve mast like Ezzy, Goya or Chinook as mentioned would give him what he wants...
That is correct GS. It's a 100% carbon CC/Flex 370 RDM from a popular sail brand that is permanently bent as **** at the ferrule. I use a 30cm extender to make the 400 that this sail needs. So the challenge for me is sourcing a mast with the same specifications and defect. I'm not going to name drop. I've already alienated local dealer during a phone call over this strange query LOL. I think I have the rigging right. When you point up wind like a race sail, you blast past a dude your size and he is on a 5.0 in gusty marginal conditions for a 5.0, and you can do that with 1 hand, then you know you have nailed the rigging. This sail is the most stable 4.x sail I have ever used. It's like a race sail in a wave sail package. It was the 4.2 size I used to struggle with until I discovered the awesome power of mast tuning . I put 8 masts through this Hucker. 400s, 370s, CCs, CC/Flex etc. The above mentioned mast performed the best for me.
PS/ The above mentioned local dealer was not Wind Surfing Systems. Nb/ Chris is the nicest windsurfing dealer I have dealt with. He went out of his way to help me with my 4.2 purchase, and took a day out of his schedule to give me a guided tour of his product range when I visited Melbourne 4 years ago (plus he copped a parking ticket that day). I must say, some other Australian dealers need to take a page from Chris's book and learn some customer service skills. I'll be throwing Chris as much business as I can in future.
Well looks like you are back to test rigging... hard to say what effect the defect has on the bend curve but I guess you could bend it & compare? ... Good Luck!
can i suggest possibly you have bought the wrong sail. you have a sail with a tight leech and full draft. 2 traits maybe not best suited for a lightweight..
by rigging the sail with an overly soft mast and a broken ferrule it sounds like you are encouraging the head to twist before it was designed to and i'd guess removed the full profile from the sail which speaks to your upwind comments.
the sailworks website says the sail suits taller heavier riders. who suggested you buy the Hucker? sounds like bad advice.
maybe the 3.7m might have served you better but truth here is you need to cut your losses and buy a different sail. im not sure how a shop could sell you a mast inline with the one you had. it was broken.
what mast brands do you have currently. surely there is a sail designed to suit smaller riders that would suit?
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
can i suggest possibly you have bought the wrong sail.
who suggested you buy the Hucker? sounds like bad advice.
what mast brands do you have currently. surely there is a sail designed to suit smaller riders that would suit?
Good points Gestalt. I didn't think about the possibility that I have turned my sail into something else that works amazingly well. Yes, they are designed for big dudes. That was apart of the attraction. Nobody talked me into buying it. It was project. I wanted to ride the Ford Mustang of the Windsurfing world. I'm just pinching myself about how well it worked
In the 12 years I have Windsurfed, I've found most sails are too stiff and twitchy. In the early days, I did not know anything different. I used to be one of those sailors who would spend more time in the rigging area changing my sails than being on the water. I used to regimentally buy a quiver of brand new sails with the same year recommended mast because everybody told me to do that. Even then, I still found some of the sail sizes twitchy and horrible to use. So why didn't they work ??. I put this down to a personal issues, not sheeting in enough, or defective equipment. Now days, I toss the rigging guide out the window. I have sold so many sails thinking they were defective when all they needed was a bit of experimentation. There is only one sail I currently own that uses the recommended size mast. For my 6 other sails, I run them with a smaller masts. In doing so, I've gained bigger wind range, I sail faster and I'm not changing up/down all of the time like I used to. It's not just me who does this. It's just not talked about on here. I'm not sure why people don't share awesome knowledge like this. I wish somebody had told me this when I started.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..
Well looks like you are back to test rigging... hard to say what effect the defect has on the bend curve but I guess you could bend it & compare? ... Good Luck!
Nobody said Windsurfing was easy 
Select to expand quotejn1 said..Gestalt said..
can i suggest possibly you have bought the wrong sail.
who suggested you buy the Hucker? sounds like bad advice.
what mast brands do you have currently. surely there is a sail designed to suit smaller riders that would suit?
Good points Gestalt. I didn't think about the possibility that I have turned my sail into something else that works amazingly well. Yes, they are designed for big dudes. That was apart of the attraction. Nobody talked me into buying it. It was project. I wanted to ride the Ford Mustang of the Windsurfing world. I'm just pinching myself about how well it worked
In the 12 years I have Windsurfed, I've found most sails are too stiff and twitchy. In the early days, I did not know anything different. I used to be one of those sailors who would spend more time in the rigging area changing my sails than being on the water. I used to regimentally buy a quiver of brand new sails with the same year recommended mast because everybody told me to do that. Even then, I still found some of the sail sizes twitchy and horrible to use. So why didn't they work ??. I put this down to a personal issues, not sheeting in enough, or defective equipment. Now days, I toss the rigging guide out the window. I have sold so many sails thinking they were defective when all they needed was a bit of experimentation. There is only one sail I currently own that uses the recommended size mast. For my 6 other sails, I run them with a smaller masts. In doing so, I've gained bigger wind range, I sail faster and I'm not changing up/down all of the time like I used to. It's not just me who does this. It's just not talked about on here. I'm not sure why people don't share awesome knowledge like this. I wish somebody had told me this when I started.
rig it to spec and it's possibly a ford mustang. rig it out of spec and it's not even a ford.
i've had a few sails over the years i didn't like much. usually a particular size out of a quiver. i'd give them a good run then just sell them on knowing it was a dud for me. sometimes the dud for me made another guys time on the water go up a notch. some sails suit some people more than others.
my current sails seem to be right in the pocket. no duds at all and everything is rigged to spec on the right mast and boom and extension. i have different models in different sizes across different years and they are all exceptional. finding a brand that suits you is really worth the effort.
can you divulge what sails and masts you are using?
Gestalt, I've PM'ed you my mobile. If you want to discuss further, then I'm happy to share my knowledge. I can't do loops and backies, nor crack 40 kts (I'm working on it !), but I think I sail well, and enjoy my sailing in most conditions with no or minimum equipment changes.
As for this topic, it has gone off course. Any takers to my question in my top post ????
Hi Jason,
thx for flicking me the PM. not sure what more i can add. you asked for advice to buy the ideal mast for the sail and that mast is the mast the sail was designed on.
not sure if there is a sailworks forum. could that help? i did some digging after your message and found this review from a lightweight sailor with rigging tips.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Review/Sailworks-Hucker-Review?page=1
Select to expand quotejn1 said..
^^^ You know his 6'2 don't you ?. That's not a small dude
I think you are going to find my answer is as close as you will get... try a variety of masts until you find your magic curve. Reason being is most sailors are either rigging it to spec, or choosing a different sail that suits their needs better. The thing about the Hucker is it generally has a higher C.O.E which tends not to suit lighter sailors IMHO. So, by rigging with a different mast you have changed the designed character of the sail & you are on your own... plenty of other very stable sails with lower C.O.E, but to each his own...
It is NOT Sailworks specific.
Every sailmaker offers multiple sails for wave application.
You pick the one that suits your style....not always directly tied to weight.
NP offers lightfeel, low COE, all around, and power, high pull sails since 1997.
Hucker is a high aspect, high COE, short boom jump sail.
If you want lighter feel and more twist, you chose the wrong sail.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..
The thing about the Hucker is it generally has a higher C.O.E which tends not to suit lighter sailors IMHO. So, by rigging with a different mast you have changed the designed character of the sail & you are on your own... plenty of other very stable sails with lower C.O.E, but to each his own...Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
NP offers lightfeel, low COE, all around, and power, high pull sails since 1997.
Hucker is a high aspect, high COE, short boom jump sail.
If you want lighter feel and more twist, you chose the wrong sail.
But it feels so great though, and different to anything I've sailed !. I'm so happy with it !
But I heed your warnings. You are saying to take this sail purchase as a complete freak of nature, and buy no more Huckers ?. I was thinking of getting the 4.8 Hucker at the end of the year, but you could be both right and will struggle with the tuning on the bigger size.
Huckers are fine for lightweights if they respect the windrange limits and like higher coe.
For instance, Robbie uses hugh draft, powerful wave sails.
Select to expand quotejn1 said..gorgesailor said..
The thing about the Hucker is it generally has a higher C.O.E which tends not to suit lighter sailors IMHO. So, by rigging with a different mast you have changed the designed character of the sail & you are on your own... plenty of other very stable sails with lower C.O.E, but to each his own...LeeD said..
NP offers lightfeel, low COE, all around, and power, high pull sails since 1997.
Hucker is a high aspect, high COE, short boom jump sail.
If you want lighter feel and more twist, you chose the wrong sail.
But it feels so great though, and different to anything I've sailed !. I'm so happy with it !
But I heed your warnings. You are saying to take this sail purchase as a complete freak of nature, and buy no more Huckers ?. I was thinking of getting the 4.8 Hucker at the end of the year, but you could be both right and will struggle with the tuning on the bigger size.
Maybe you can try to demo it before you commit.... even testing on different masts.
