Hi all,
Hey I?m looking at breaking into some new territory with my equipment and i?m after some thoughts and advice on a new sail that i?d like to add to my quiver.
Here is where i am at... Let me know what you think... I?m an advanced freerider, weighing in at about 67kgs, with a strong preference for sailing overpowered. Over the last few years I?ve been doing some long upwind, offshore missions out around the harbor and islands of Auckland. My biggest sail is currently a 6.6 TR9. I totally dig the TR9, but it is very much about top end and it leaves me wanting if the wind gets a bit light. So i?d like to get a bigger sail to open up more sea breezy offshore adventures. Perhaps something about 7.5m maybe? My board will be able to handle up to about an 8. I?ve never owned a sail bigger than 7m so would be keen on some 'big' sail advice, especially from light weight sailors.
The biggest challenge that i am likely to face out on the harbor is changeable conditions. My wife tells me i have excellent pumping technique ;) and given my whopping 67kgs, getting on the plane in light winds is not a problem at all. However if i?m running a bigger rig then i am likely to have my hands full if the wind really picks up. In my mind a rig with excellent top end stability, balance, control and forgiveness is going to be essential. In order to obtain these qualities i think what i am looking for is a cammed sail that is light weight, has a very smooth power delivery, an excellent ability to twist off, and forgiveness in the mast. A tight, grunty, aggressive sail is not going to suit me at all.
My long shortlist currently consists of:
Maui Sails TR9 7.7
Maui Sails Titan GTX 7.5
Avanti Condor 7.4
Ezzy Lion 7.5
Hot Sails GPS 7.3 or 8.0
GA Phantom 7.8
Mast wise: the Ezzy and the Hot both run on a rdm. I've never sailed on a 460 rdm before but could imagine that mast may well work to my advantage. If i understand the GA website correctly the Phantom can rig on a 430 +40, which sounds sketchy but the idea of running a softer mast appeals. I'll look into it further...
Do you have any experience on these rigs? How appropriate do you think they will be for my needs? I?d love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks heaps
Todd
I am not as light as you (75Kg +-) but have been running a 7.8 Loft Racing Blade 9 (4cam)on a 460 powerex skinny for the last couple of years.
Before that I had a 7m on a 430 skinny and I also run a 6.3 and 5.6 on rdm.
As a lighter sailor the rdm flexes more in the gusts allowing the sail to breathe and retain control in the gusts. I can hang on to it into the low 20 knots. The 7.8 does lack the bottom end grunt that an sdm would give but you can rig it with a tighter leach to help that. I don't think the sail has the top end speed it would have with an sdm for the same reason. Personally I think that 7.8 is as big as I want to go and on my 120L slalom I can get going in 12knots.
The Hot Sails GPS seem good (but I have not sailed one) although not as robustly built as the Loft.
Dude! thanks for the reply. valuable feedback. Yeah what you were saying about the rdm makes perfect sense. I've got a definite sway in this direction.
I have never come in contact with loft sails before. I checked out the website. They look nice. Good materials. Clean design. Only 7 battens? that should make them light for a race sail. You have any ideas how much they might weigh? How would you describe the blade's ride when maxed out in the rough? What about the rotation on the rdm... Any sticky cams? How durable do their masts appear to be? hmmm lots of questions... I'll definitely do a bit of research into this one.
Yeah i've never sailed Hot either. I have seen a few in the flesh and their build quality it excellent also. But i'm just not sure that the sizing of the GPS is going to work for me. 7.3 is really close to my 6.6, and the 8.0 is a bit bigger than i wanted to go. 7.5 to 7.8 has got to be the sweet spot i reckon.
I have a 7.8 and 8.5 loft racing blades. They are well built, stable and powerful but they could never be described as light. If you want a lighter sail, then look at the Loft Switchbalde, or Severne Overdrive or KA Concept. these all have 3 cams instead of the 4 on the loft racing blade. You can go even lighter with the Severne Turbo (2 cams) or Severne NCS (no cams). Each manufacturer has their version of these free ride / free race sails.There is a compromise between stability and weight. I know plenty of sailors who swear by the no cam sails and others who like the stability of cam sails. Ultimately its a matter of personnel choise. For what its worth, I'm 93kg and I like the loft 7.8 but find the 8.5 too heavy, hence I'm looking to replace with something lighter. I really like the look of the KA Concepts.
Ezzy mast and sails for ofshore work. Your second biggest danger is breakage. Ezzy masts are the toughest. At 80* kg i have no qualms about the ezzy 460 mast either. I use 7.5 cheetah on mine and love it.
What are the conditions like where you plan on sailing- how steady is the wind, are there reef/point breaks, currents etc, what board and fin are you planning on using, how many other craft are typically in the vicinity when you head out?
I think the conditions really dictate the choice of gear for "offshore missions", and the board choice needs to be considered as part of the package.
I do a fair bit of my sailing offshore, along fairly sparsely populated coastline. I have had gear failure before, which, provided the wind is onshore, is a nuisance rather than seriously dangerous. Either way, you want to minimise it happening. After I had a monofilm sail disintegrate on one such trip (it ended up at the bottom of the ocean, with the mast) I am progressively switching over to ezzys, as they appear to have the most relaible construction. I think cams can be a bit risky for extended offshore sailing also. When I am shooting a channel between a reef break and a headland, I am always far more comfortable with a non-cammed sail. The ability to uphaul or waterstart quickly when things go bad cannot be underestimated. Simplicity and strength is a more important factor than weight and performance in such situations generally speaking.
The other major consideration for sailing long distances along coastlines is the substantial variation in wind around headlands and other major geographic features. This can cause substantail variations over very short distances, on top of natural variations in wind speed. I nearly always rig a size down, just in case. I sail a mistral one design raceboard (230L), so can afford to downsize the sail somewhat.
Regarding the board-sail combo, I really like some advice from iceman on another topic- select a board for the lulls, and a sail for the gusts.
I would suggest that an adjustable outhaul would be a very important part of the package as well, especially if you are sailing on a range of angles in the one session.
Have you considered the ezzy cheetah/legacy or zephyr 7.5?
Clarence.
I really only sail open ocean and have done some long swims in the past, my thoughts...
RDM mast, I used to break SDM's but never any RDM's in I guess about 8 years
Carbon boom, I'm 80 odd to 90kg, I couldn't get more than 9 or so months out of alloy ones (few brands) but then you're a bit lighter 
Forget and I repeat forget race sails, go for a narrow luff freeride or as Clarence said a no cam, much easier water starting when the wind drops or you're tired. Any brand sail will be ok now days, I like Loft Switchblades but no Aus supplier now I think.
And just use common sense, always check your gear and replace the uni joint yearly.
Cheers Bob.
Select to expand quotefume said...
Dude! thanks for the reply. valuable feedback. Yeah what you were saying about the rdm makes perfect sense. I've got a definite sway in this direction.
I have never come in contact with loft sails before. I checked out the website. They look nice. Good materials. Clean design. Only 7 battens? that should make them light for a race sail. You have any ideas how much they might weigh? How would you describe the blade's ride when maxed out in the rough? What about the rotation on the rdm... Any sticky cams? How durable do their masts appear to be? hmmm lots of questions... I'll definitely do a bit of research into this one.
Yeah i've never sailed Hot either. I have seen a few in the flesh and their build quality it excellent also. But i'm just not sure that the sizing of the GPS is going to work for me. 7.3 is really close to my 6.6, and the 8.0 is a bit bigger than i wanted to go. 7.5 to 7.8 has got to be the sweet spot i reckon.
Have never had any rotation issues on rdm mast with the Loft Blade. I don't think there is much difference in 7.8 to 8.
I have tried cammed and non cammed back to back and the cammed are much better in gusty conditions where they retain their shape and therefore power. Less important in small sizes but makes a difference in bigger sizes.
If your skill level means you are likely to drop the rig a bit then as Bob/ clarence said a smaller luff tube will make life much easier.
Guys! thank you all for joining the conversation.
Wow there is a heap of great stuff here. Your input is going to be a big help in making this decision. I'm really glad i posted.
I jumped on with the intention to fire a few quick questions john340's way before heading off to work. Now that i've read all of the other posts im out of time. I'll sit down proper tonight and get back to you all.
Cheers!
I've got a solid love of cammed sails. Their glide through the lulls, their insane control at the top end and everything in between. And provided they are well balanced and have a smooth rotation, the extra weight doesn't bother me. Nor do wide luff pockets. I have owned a number of camberless freerace sails and do really appreciate how easy and super light they are but, for the time being, that isn't me.
But that said, i'm wary of what i am getting myself into when choosing to go bigger than a 7m. There is a whole lot of mass to some of these bigger rigs. There is definite appeal for going for a full race sail but the practical side of me knows that something with two or three cams is probably going to serve me better. However I'm not going to entirely cut the race sails out of it at this point. I have got plenty of years ahead of me in which i can choose to be practical if i wish so i'm going to leave the race sail door open 
we'll see....
I'm glad that a number of you have mentioned Ezzy as i do have a number of questions. Its actually Ezzy that kinda got me into this situation in the first place. I've happily bought the new incarnation of the same 7m three cammed freerace sail every year for the last 7 or 8 years. Only last summer the importer forgot to add my sail to the order. Duh! I had already found a new home for the older sail and so i was left looking for a new alternative. I have taken more and more notice of Ezzy over the last few years and have hell of a lot of respect for the brand. No Bull***t. Just good honest service, good vibes and top top quality. And i would have gone for the Lion there and then, except they did not do a 7m... so i was left in limbo. In the meantime i picked up a this second hand 6.6 tr9 to fill the gap. About the same time took delivery of a Carbon Art SP49. These two are this insanely awesome match. Truly mental. There is no way i'm letting go of the TR9. So now I am looking to fill this light wind void in my gear. Short story long...
From the outset it is obvious that there is nothing else like Ezzy on the market. To give myself a feel for what Ezzy was all about i picked up a second hand 2013 5.3 and 4.7 Tiger at the beginning of last summer. I've had a bunch of sessions on them over the last half a year and, to be perfectly honest, the just have not gelled with me. I have never become comfortable with the way they pull. Its weird. Its like there is a lot of power coming from up high in and sail or something. While i'm hooked in and balanced everything is sweet, but they seem to be constantly pulling hard on either the front or back hand when in a maneuver or transition. I tore a rotator cuff a number of years back and these sails really aggravate it. The mast is right and i've tried all sorts of variations in downhaul and outhaul. So it has left me thinking that it may just be a poor combo between the unique, preshaped profile of ezzy and my light weight. Which has left me with doubts about the Lion.
Have any of you had a good play around with the Lion? How would you describe the feel and ride? Any thoughts for me here?
But what you guys have said about the rdm mast is bang on. I think that this is going to be a must. So what is my list of options given that i want a cammed sail that rigs on an rdm? So far we have got:
Ezzy Lion 7.5
Loft raceblade or switchblade 7.8
Hot GPS or GP2 7.3 or 8m
Do you know of any other sails i should add to the list?
I really like Clarence's quote: select a board for the lulls, and a sail for the gusts. Very true.
So i'm currently riding a custom Carbon Art FR61. Its 100lts with a tail width very close to that of the the SL62. So i've got a board with good float, and it will take a 8m at the limit. The 6.6 is good fun in anything over 15knots so i'm really looking to open up the days that are averaging 10-15. But that said, the conditions out on the harbour change real quick so the sail is going to have to be able to handle the jandle if things get hairy.
Most of the Waitamata harbour (Auckland's north east harbour) is protected by islands so unfortunately its not often that we get ocean swells. But the wind and wind swells that we get do wrap around the islands, creating variations in wind speed, wind direction and swell direction. Throw an outgoing tide in the mix and there are a few of channels that i might pass through that can get pretty trying. The rest is just open sea bliss.
Gees i love this sport!
Thanks again for all your input :)
Select to expand quotefume said...
From the outset it is obvious that there is nothing else like Ezzy on the market. To give myself a feel for what Ezzy was all about i picked up a second hand 2013 5.3 and 4.7 Tiger at the beginning of last summer. I've had a bunch of sessions on them over the last half a year and, to be perfectly honest, the just have not gelled with me. I have never become comfortable with the way they pull. Its weird. Its like there is a lot of power coming from up high in and sail or something. While i'm hooked in and balanced everything is sweet, but they seem to be constantly pulling hard on either the front or back hand when in a maneuver or transition. I tore a rotator cuff a number of years back and these sails really aggravate it. The mast is right and i've tried all sorts of variations in downhaul and outhaul. So it has left me thinking that it may just be a poor combo between the unique, preshaped profile of ezzy and my light weight. Which has left me with doubts about the Lion.
Have any of you had a good play around with the Lion? How would you describe the feel and ride? Any thoughts for me here?
I have Panthers and Cheetahs, and they all need max downhaul to settle down. I mostly downhaul so the wrinkles are extending 3-10 cm past the high wind mark. I usually do this by setting the extension to the max recommended setting for the sail and then downhauling block to block. Then I play the outhaul for power. Set up like this the stability and top end are incredible, the Cheetahs in particular feel limitless in the amount of wind they can absorb and maintain quiet, dependable stability.
I use a Hotsails Speed Demon which is a no-cam free ride sail. I think it has been replaced by the "Speed Freak" which is likely to cause controversy due to the use of dacron rather than film. both the speed demon and the speedfreak have relatively short booms and masts which make them really easy to sail. I reckon the type of sailing you've described would benefit from this type of set up. also they rig on RDMs and if you break a mast you can sail home due to the insanely strong luff pocket (I've had to sail about a kilometre on my Superfreak 5.8 with a broken mast - no damage to the sail!)
The Speed demon is not the fastest sail i've been on, but it is the easiest free ride sail i've ever rigged, planes super early, pumps really easily and gybes really easily, all these things add up to a faster overall speed for me (i plane out of gybes, fall in less etc...)
I find it relatively easy to waterstart my 9.7 speed freak (my 8.0 is easier!) so that gives you an idea of the ease of these sails.
good luck.
Select to expand quoteikw777 said...
I have Panthers and Cheetahs, and they all need max downhaul to settle down. I mostly downhaul so the wrinkles are extending 3-10 cm past the high wind mark. I usually do this by setting the extension to the max recommended setting for the sail and then downhauling block to block. Then I play the outhaul for power. Set up like this the stability and top end are incredible, the Cheetahs in particular feel limitless in the amount of wind they can absorb and maintain quiet, dependable stability.
Cool. They sound solid.
I'll have another play around with the downhaul settings on the tiger. Maybe i've just never gone far enough?
Very important, use an adjustable out haul!! This will give you more bottom end and you will be able to hold on when overpowered .
Board use a wide modern board that can handle being overpowered and plane early.
Do lots of research on the net
BTW TR9 will be 7.6. A great sail I use a TR8 in WA. Good to 25k ( I weigh 75kg)
Terry
Select to expand quotebarbarian said...
I use a Hotsails Speed Demon which is a no-cam free ride sail. I think it has been replaced by the "Speed Freak" which is likely to cause controversy due to the use of dacron rather than film. both the speed demon and the speedfreak have relatively short booms and masts which make them really easy to sail. I reckon the type of sailing you've described would benefit from this type of set up. also they rig on RDMs and if you break a mast you can sail home due to the insanely strong luff pocket (I've had to sail about a kilometre on my Superfreak 5.8 with a broken mast - no damage to the sail!)
The Speed demon is not the fastest sail i've been on, but it is the easiest free ride sail i've ever rigged, planes super early, pumps really easily and gybes really easily, all these things add up to a faster overall speed for me (i plane out of gybes, fall in less etc...)
I find it relatively easy to waterstart my 9.7 speed freak (my 8.0 is easier!) so that gives you an idea of the ease of these sails.
good luck.
Yeah Hot sound really nice. I've never sailed one but i hear that they have got a really unique feeling. Really soft but with heaps of control. Do you know of anyone who has sailed any of their cammed sails?
Select to expand quoteTerryA said...
Very important, use an adjustable out haul!! This will give you more bottom end and you will be able to hold on when overpowered .
Board use a wide modern board that can handle being overpowered and plane early.
Do lots of research on the net
BTW TR9 will be 7.6. A great sail I use a TR8 in WA. Good to 25k ( I weigh 75kg)
Terry
Hi ya Terry,
Thanks mate. Yes i run an adjustable outhaul. Like you say... really important for opening up the range of the sail.
Yeah i'm super impressed with the TR9. Ive had so many awesome sessions on it. Totally balls to the wall. last saturday was epic! Scared the living ** out of myself. It was exquisite!
Broke another SRS mast though :( damn fragile things. I hit a sandbank and the mast just folded... Great news maui sails have upgraded their mast designs.
Too bad I can't choose to run any of the cammed mauisails on an rdm through. That is definitely the direction i'd like to head. For a big sail I'd happily forgo a bit of performance for a bit more forgiveness and mast strength.
or i could just eat more pie... 
SRS 75 should be stronger . Your comment on hitting the sand bar. Prob any race mast would have broken.
In my experience you could go 7.0 to 8.4 in sail size. If you are not racing and always looking for the perfect sail.
Terry
Not a fan of Ezzys- heavy, slow and design wise stuck in the 90's.
I've loved every Maui Sail, Gaastra and Loft I have had. Haven't tried the others.
I have 2 Naish Bullets, 6.4 and 7.0, that I rig on a Naish 430 RDM mast. They have great power stability from 3 cams, a narrower luff pocket, easy to water start, reasonable rotation, made from light weight scrim and work well with the RDM mast. They also do a 7.8 which needs a 460 mast,
Vando, one of Morton Bay's better sailors, swears by his quiver of Severne Over Drives. He switched to the ODs after using Loft racing blades for many seasons. He chose the ODs because of their weight advantage over the reflex race sails. They rig with SDM masts
Hi Everyone,
Hey so i ended up going for a severne OD 7.8. They sounded like a pretty full on freerace sail, which really appealed, but came with an rdm conversion kit so that i was able to run with your suggestions and rig it on a rdm.
I've had it for about three weeks now but until the new stock of masts arrive in august my only option is to run it on an old Naish 75% sdm. After 3 sessions I'm not sure that this mast is a particularly great match so i'm holding back on making a call on its handling for now.
I did, however, get the opportunity to demo a 7m OD rigged on a 430 Gorilla 75% rdm today. One concern i do have is that it bent my Chinook RDM extension. Not a major bend but a bend none the less. The chinooks are pretty tough... But obviously not tough enough?!
How have you guys got on with running big sails with heaps of curve on an rdm with a fair amount of extension? I guess that rigging a 7.8 on a 460 rdm is going to increase the loading on the extension even more that what i experienced today, which would mean that the Chinook would be totally inadequate. What works for you?
Hi Fume I've been using a Pryde alloy RDM extension at 28 cm with a 460 RDM on my 7.8 Loft Switchblade for a few years without any probs. It does take a fair bit of downhaul. There should be lots of brands on the market up to the job.
I was using 40 cm on carbon extension with Hot Sails 92% rdm 460 and 8M superfreak no problems, have since switched to 490 which is better.
You should get one of those North ratcheting extensions which by all accounts allow very easy on the water DH adjustments, combined with your adjustable OH you will have alot of flexibility with wind speeds you might encounter while far from shore.
