Hello brains trust After a quick discussion with some of the guru`s at my local it has been recommended that I purchase a Jacket.
Now after a few hours of googling I have become a touch confused about different brands and different styles. There is pfd jackets, and impact protection jacket etc.
Previously I purchased a pfd from bcf but the clips covered the hook rendering virtually usless.
Theres a few different types on the market. But sorta narrowed it down to the NP high hook.www.psasailing.com.au/shop/clothing/brands/neilpryde-sailing/neilpryde-elite-bouyancy-vest/www.amazon.com/NP-Surf-High-Hook-Flotation/dp/B00HLAD4PKwww.amazon.com/Neil-Pryde-Elite-Buoyancy-Vest/dp/B0151U454K/ref=pd_sbs_468_17?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=6JH2BJZZPM75P70SGTZA
I use the NP Rise impact vest. It is not a compliant life vest, but provides sufficient buoyancy to assist me in flying race sails when water starting. I also use in local slalom racing as my life vest.
I have not used the NP High Hook, but it has a good reputation. It provides more bayancy than the Rise. Its 50 rating may or may not be WA waterways compliant.
Compliance does not have a simple answer. It depends on where you sail and how far you venture from shore.
I do not know if it would be compliant for use in the Ledge to Lancelin marathon
LOC and similar allow a lower rating because of all the vessels assisting etc.
50N - N50. NOT the same as 50S where the S is for sheltered waters (?)
If you were just sailing alone 1km offshore you'd need a higher rating to be compliant.
I use the NP C724 "high hook" and it is a very good vest. I use a seat harness but do not put the hook through the opening as it tends to pull the harness up and/or the vest down. This is easily solved by putting a short piece of cord or webbing between the hook opening on the vest and the spreader bar. The advantage of having some attachment is that the vest is less likely to ride up.
There is a vest which ronstan makes which is very similar in style and performance to the NP ones, and well worth looking at also. It does not have a hook opening.
Regarding compliance typically an Australian vest will meet the Australian Standard AS 4758.1 Level 50 (eg Ronstan), whereas the overseas vests (eg NP) will meet a European/international ISO 12402-5 "50" standard.
The Australian Windsurfing Association (of which Windsurfing WA is a member group) has been reviewing the policy on vests- and it is pretty safe to say that whether a vest meets AS 4758.1 "level 50" or ISO 12402 "50" and is NOT an inflatable yoke type, it will be acceptable for WWA events (or any other AWA affiliated club sanctioned event).
If the vest does not meet one of these standards (which will be clearly indicated on the item), it will NOT comply for either state laws or organised windsurfing (AWA affiliated/sanctioned) events.
The 50S designation (under AS 4758.1) is NOT abour floatation performance, but visibility (presumably for Search and Rescue operations). The international standard (as far as I am aware) does not differentiate between colours in the level 50 vests.
Clarence
Ive got the NP high hook. meets the requirements.
I only use it if i know im heading out further offshore than the 400m or further than i can swim though. The high hooks got side straps that get it quite snug/help stop it riding up.
If youre planning on competeing you need to make sure whatever you get carries the 50N rating or above though. Otherwise you might find yourself being turned away/back at the shop buying another jacket.
OOOPS I was wrong, seems now what they approve for us in a race is good all the time:
Type 2 (Not approved for general use in unprotected waters).
*Standard: AS 4758 or ISO 12402 - level 50 or AS 1499.
Level 50 lifejackets have a lower level of buoyancy than the Level 100 and higher lifejackets and are:Not approved for general use in unprotected waters.Not fitted with head and neck support.Not designed to keep you in a face up floating position.Manufactured using high-visibility colours.Normally used for sailing, kayaking, canoeing, wind surfing and on personal water craft.
* 'General use in unprotected waters' includes all vessels except for: PWCs operating within 400 metres of the shore, paddlecraft, sailboards and kitesurfers.
Thankyou gentlemen for the valuable imput and knowledge. I have gone with the np high hook. Im a pretty strong swimmer but nearly drowned in a bad diving accident. I understand the need for a personal flotation device. ;-) Thanks to the gentlemen at my local for the key safety advice. I guess you don't have to listen to people But when it comes to safety I guess these people are trying to save your life! Take care stay safe Once again thanks for the iNput!.
Tried that NP high hook yesterday And its really good Rode up towards the neck a couple (needed to tighten the side strap more. of times and unhooked itself in 2half hours out on the water. Makes us feel a lot safer in the water . Lifted the boom so it dosent sit on the back of the board now sailing position a lot better and the extra buoyancy makes it a lot easier to water start!
Givin it the thumbs up!
I recently bought a life jacket for wakeboarding and I wanted to get something I could use for kiting as well.
I ended up with a 50S, and from what I saw at the shop, type 50 is just without the bright colours.
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/kite-and-windsurfing.asp
When I was looking this up it is curious that they seem to allow 50S for unprotected areas as well:
It is a requirement that lifejackets are worn when operating more than 400 metres offshore in unprotected waters. This lifejacket can be a level 50S or higher.It is strongly recommended that an approved lifejacket is worn at all times when kiteboarding or windsurfing.If using inflatable lifejackets, it is recommended that they be serviced regularly in accordance with manufacturers advice.Find out more about lifejackets.
Like Mark's post above, it does seem that they allow this for windsurfing and kitesurfing.
I have to say I think they are a good idea, but at least with mine they are not that good to swim in. They float the whole body and as a result your legs are half out of the water. I think if I was intent on a long swim in I would refit is somehow.
How do they define protected waters?
I broke my ankle quite badly a week and a half ago while sailing alone on Jervis Bay, and I'm glad I wasn't wearing a lifejacket.
I was about 2 1/2 km offshore at the time, the wind was quite strong resulting in big chop.
After I ditched the rig it took me between 1 1/2 and 2 hours to paddle back, probably covering about 6 km because I was angling up wind to avoid being blown into the middle of the bay.
If I had been wearing a lifejacket I would have been collecting more wind, thus being forced more downwind as I paddled.
I think I would have been knocked off the board more times than I was by the bigger breaking bits of chop.
Passively floating in a lifejacket would have been much scarier than relying on the board and paddling.
Much as I hate to repeat a cliche, the lifejacket rules for windsurfing are nanny state overreach.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
How do they define protected waters?
I broke my ankle quite badly a week and a half ago while sailing alone on Jervis Bay, and I'm glad I wasn't wearing a lifejacket.
I was about 2 1/2 km offshore at the time, the wind was quite strong resulting in big chop.
After I ditched the rig it took me between 1 1/2 and 2 hours to paddle back, probably covering about 6 km because I was angling up wind to avoid being blown into the middle of the bay.
If I had been wearing a lifejacket I would have been collecting more wind, thus being forced more downwind as I paddled.
I think I would have been knocked off the board more times than I was by the bigger breaking bits of chop.
Passively floating in a lifejacket would have been much scarier than relying on the board and paddling.
Much as I hate to repeat a cliche, the lifejacket rules for windsurfing are nanny state overreach.
If you lost your gear you would have drowned without a jacket
If a shark had eaten me I would be dead too.
A windsurfing board is a floatation device on its own. The sail falling into the water acts as a sea anchor most of the time. Sometimes a sail with camber inducers sits high enough out of the water so that the board and rig gets blown downwind, but most of the time the board stays anchored quite close to where you fell off.
In my situation, I think a life jacket would have been a hindrance.
These kinds of laws and regulations are imposed to make officious dogooders look effective in the eyes of unthinking morons slumped over their fast food while watching commercial TV
The Neil Pryde high hook buoyancy vest is accepted for racing in WA. It also makes a good impact vest.
I found it rides up less than other PFDs I tried, even without hooking to a seat harness.
The clips on the back for the hydrapak are really handy.
Even better now that they have a front pocket again as well.
My no#1 choice for sure.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
How do they define protected waters?
I broke my ankle quite badly a week and a half ago while sailing alone on Jervis Bay, and I'm glad I wasn't wearing a lifejacket.
I was about 2 1/2 km offshore at the time, the wind was quite strong resulting in big chop.
After I ditched the rig it took me between 1 1/2 and 2 hours to paddle back, probably covering about 6 km because I was angling up wind to avoid being blown into the middle of the bay.
If I had been wearing a lifejacket I would have been collecting more wind, thus being forced more downwind as I paddled.
I think I would have been knocked off the board more times than I was by the bigger breaking bits of chop.
Passively floating in a lifejacket would have been much scarier than relying on the board and paddling.
Much as I hate to repeat a cliche, the lifejacket rules for windsurfing are nanny state overreach.
They do have a definition of protected waters on the Transport WA website somewhere.
I have been using a wakeboarding lifejacket (50S) while learning kiteboarding, and it gives you a lot of comfort knowing that you can easily float without having a board. The downside to that one is that it does make it hard to swim as it floats my lower back as much as it floats my shoulders.
I also have a NP high-hook vest, and it also seems to be rated as a 50S. I think it provides the buoyancy higher up which appears to be better for swimming. Of course it also provides much better clearance for the harness spreader bar. Unfortunately I bought a size too big so it rides up when in the water.
I think that sailing alone or a decent distance off shore I would now prefer to wear one. It just gives that extra bit of safety. You could always take it off if it was somehow hindering you.
As an experiment, I wore the wakeboarding jacket while windsurfing a couple of weeks ago. When you first get going it feels like it intrudes too much, but after 2 hours, it felt fine and didn't get in the way at all.
Yesterday, I was floating a long way from shore off of Melville in the river, while my kite decided it preferred to sit on the water. I didn't think about it til now, but the jacket meant I didn't even have to tread water to float and spent all my time worrying about getting the kite back in the air. I wouldn't kite without one unless it was shallow.
There be different situation for different people but I don't understand why holding positive buoyancy in rough conditions would be a negative milk. There's a plethora of situations and scenarios people end up in. You can get gassed pretty easily in rough conditions. I have an account of drowning if you want to hear that ! ;-) Anyhow im not wearing it because i have to. I choose to wear it for my own safety.! it be that last thing id ever ditch, and ive ditched full rigs before. **** i remember getting on a big cocaine bender down in Busselton one winter launched at rocky point and a storm hit Like winds of 160kph Like ripping of house roofs n **** .got in a bit of trouble bit over powered started drifting to Africa . was like holding onto my back footstraps and the windsurfing gear was dragging me out to seas and bouncing up and down on the water (board included )Hit quick release and the rig did cartwheels out to sea. Was that fingered i started to talk to jezus and ****. Took hours to get back to the the shore and do walk of shame back to car.. Got back to car and mates smoking bongs like smoke bellowing out of the windows and they didn't even relize I was gone. . Hahah anyways i had a few beers aftera sick surf this arvo! stay safe out there fellas!
