hasn't been much wind for a week so Rant on!
Manufacturers and Brands are eager to suggest windsurfing is an expensive sport when punters question the current costs of gear. Maybe the reality is brands just don't care. Or maybe the reality is brands aren't able to think in new ways. Or maybe the reality is there are many factors out of brands control.
One thing manufacturers can control is the design integrity and strength of the gear they sell. If I'm going to spend 4k on a new board, or 1.5k on a sail i EXPECT it's going to work to a certain level.
Unfortunately, this just isn't the case.
boards delaminating or breaking in 2.
boards that one year work a treat and the next get performance complaints
boards that are dogs! plain and simple. that should never have been released.
a quiver of sails. one or 2 sizes from that quiver just don't have the pizzazz of others in the quiver.
I replace the sails next year and it's a lottery again.
sails that don't rig to spec
sails that won't rotate, cambered or raf.
board bags whose zip handles break within months
harness lines that corrode and stop being adjustable.
mast extensions that bind up and won't release or let go without warning
fins that just don't work. slow to plane, spin out, noisy.
I know that brands can produce outstanding gear. I've got gear thats created memorable sessions. Is worthy of the high price of entry.
Puts a smile on my face, works no matter the conditions and makes every session fun.
But this just isn't and hasn't been the case for all my gear over the past 30 years from every manufacturer in the sport. It's completely hit and miss. When i read comments from people saying a certain model or a certain brand is reliable across the years i question the posters knowledge. Reviews in mags that don't call a spade a spade are just part of the problem.
when brands wonder why their sales are reducing they should think hard about why people aren't buying their gear. there is a plethora of gear i refuse to buy because it's just not up to snuff for me. I've kept the gear that worked, removed the brands that didn't and are very cautious with every purchase. every piece of kit in my garage is there because it deserves to be there.
how's about manufacturers start designing gear that is worthy of the price tag. It's not that hard. stop putting out poorly designed gear and start focusing on the designs that work.
Being out in the country I don't have the privilege of demoing gear before i buy, in saying that most of my gear has been great can't recall and duds.
Apart from terrible board shapes, most in the above has to do with quality control and the fact that most of our gear is hand made by a human that just does it as their job. If they can get away with delivering poor results and quality control doesn't pick it up, we are the one suffering. Brands can spend more on quality control but in the end, things will slip through. Particularly the last few years, Cobra boards from some brands are just not reliable enough to buy without inspecting first. Sadly, if they break within warranty it is still a pain and a long wait to get a replacement while the brand probably files a case with the manufacturer.
Lay up, similar, cost aspect. And with everything getting more expensive, companies have to make compromises. In the end, they are in the business to make money. We should choose wisely which brands we want to keep supporting...
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
It's completely hit and miss.
Yep agreed. This is why I think (in SA at least) we have a Seabreeze Seagull market - "I'll give yer 200 bucks for it". Not many sailors here seem to buy brand new gear, and Windsurfing equipment seems to be the highest depreciating goods I know of. Most likely the result of everything you said above. I don't think the disposable incomes here are as high as interstate.
My oldest board is from 1990 and my newest is from 2000, I'd go as far as to say that they were the glory days of windsurfing when new boards were within someone's price range! I'd say to someone, that you can still have a great time of some of the 20 year old gear, so long as it has been looked after!
Select to expand quotechoco said..
Being out in the country I don't have the privilege of demoing gear before i buy, in saying that most of my gear has been great can't recall and duds.
Didn't you once cut a speed board in 2 or at least threaten to.
Select to expand quotejn1 said..Gestalt said..
It's completely hit and miss.
I
Yep agreed. This is why I think (in SA at least) we have a Seabreeze Seagull market - "I'll give yer 200 bucks for it". Not many sailors here seem to buy brand new gear, and Windsurfing equipment seems to be the highest depreciating goods I know of. Most likely the result of everything you said above. I don't think the disposable incomes here are as high as interstate.
yup, everything I said above has had a massive impact on what I buy.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
hasn't been much wind for a week so Rant on!
Manufacturers and Brands are eager to suggest windsurfing is an expensive sport when punters question the current costs of gear. Maybe the reality is brands just don't care. Or maybe the reality is brands aren't able to think in new ways. Or maybe the reality is there are many factors out of brands control.
One thing manufacturers can control is the design integrity and strength of the gear they sell. If I'm going to spend 4k on a new board, or 1.5k on a sail i EXPECT it's going to work to a certain level.
Unfortunately, this just isn't the case.
boards delaminating or breaking in 2.
boards that one year work a treat and the next get performance complaints
boards that are dogs! plain and simple. that should never have been released.
a quiver of sails. one or 2 sizes from that quiver just don't have the pizzazz of others in the quiver.
I replace the sails next year and it's a lottery again.
sails that don't rig to spec
sails that won't rotate, cambered or raf.
board bags whose zip handles break within months
harness lines that corrode and stop being adjustable.
mast extensions that bind up and won't release or let go without warning
fins that just don't work. slow to plane, spin out, noisy.
I know that brands can produce outstanding gear. I've got gear thats created memorable sessions. Is worthy of the high price of entry.
Puts a smile on my face, works no matter the conditions and makes every session fun.
But this just isn't and hasn't been the case for all my gear over the past 30 years from every manufacturer in the sport. It's completely hit and miss. When i read comments from people saying a certain model or a certain brand is reliable across the years i question the posters knowledge. Reviews in mags that don't call a spade a spade are just part of the problem.
when brands wonder why their sales are reducing they should think hard about why people aren't buying their gear. there is a plethora of gear i refuse to buy because it's just not up to snuff for me. I've kept the gear that worked, removed the brands that didn't and are very cautious with every purchase. every piece of kit in my garage is there because it deserves to be there.
how's about manufacturers start designing gear that is worthy of the price tag. It's not that hard. stop putting out poorly designed gear and start focusing on the designs that work.
A valid rant
Select to expand quoteptsf1111 said..
Apart from terrible board shapes, most in the above has to do with quality control and the fact that most of our gear is hand made by a human that just does it as their job. If they can get away with delivering poor results and quality control doesn't pick it up, we are the one suffering. Brands can spend more on quality control but in the end, things will slip through. Particularly the last few years, Cobra boards from some brands are just not reliable enough to buy without inspecting first. Sadly, if they break within warranty it is still a pain and a long wait to get a replacement while the brand probably files a case with the manufacturer.
Lay up, similar, cost aspect. And with everything getting more expensive, companies have to make compromises. In the end, they are in the business to make money. We should choose wisely which brands we want to keep supporting...
I dunno. Sure QC gets a lot of airtime and so it should but I'd suggest majority of what I wrote is centred around design issues.
if a freestyle wave board has a high failure rate between the straps then that to me is a design issue. Materials need to be fit for purpose. End of the day brands need to take responsibility for the qc as it's their name on the product.
I'm guessing a lot of gear doesn't get the r&d it deserves, sizes are scaled up in cad.
or brands are using the agile approach to product design.
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..Gestalt said..
hasn't been much wind for a week so Rant on!
Manufacturers and Brands are eager to suggest windsurfing is an expensive sport when punters question the current costs of gear. Maybe the reality is brands just don't care. Or maybe the reality is brands aren't able to think in new ways. Or maybe the reality is there are many factors out of brands control.
One thing manufacturers can control is the design integrity and strength of the gear they sell. If I'm going to spend 4k on a new board, or 1.5k on a sail i EXPECT it's going to work to a certain level.
Unfortunately, this just isn't the case.
boards delaminating or breaking in 2.
boards that one year work a treat and the next get performance complaints
boards that are dogs! plain and simple. that should never have been released.
a quiver of sails. one or 2 sizes from that quiver just don't have the pizzazz of others in the quiver.
I replace the sails next year and it's a lottery again.
sails that don't rig to spec
sails that won't rotate, cambered or raf.
board bags whose zip handles break within months
harness lines that corrode and stop being adjustable.
mast extensions that bind up and won't release or let go without warning
fins that just don't work. slow to plane, spin out, noisy.
I know that brands can produce outstanding gear. I've got gear thats created memorable sessions. Is worthy of the high price of entry.
Puts a smile on my face, works no matter the conditions and makes every session fun.
But this just isn't and hasn't been the case for all my gear over the past 30 years from every manufacturer in the sport. It's completely hit and miss. When i read comments from people saying a certain model or a certain brand is reliable across the years i question the posters knowledge. Reviews in mags that don't call a spade a spade are just part of the problem.
when brands wonder why their sales are reducing they should think hard about why people aren't buying their gear. there is a plethora of gear i refuse to buy because it's just not up to snuff for me. I've kept the gear that worked, removed the brands that didn't and are very cautious with every purchase. every piece of kit in my garage is there because it deserves to be there.
how's about manufacturers start designing gear that is worthy of the price tag. It's not that hard. stop putting out poorly designed gear and start focusing on the designs that work.
A valid rant
,lol it's hot here too
Good rant!
But in my opinion things have gotten better (or I've been lucky).
My first shortboard was a Vinta 2 nine five. Nearly impossible to get planing and on my first outing on the sea, I lost the finbox and the baseplate (cheap plastic) had me swimming for quite a bit. Later changed to Tiga Wave 250, that board was a hoot (but wouldn't survive one season), had a good insurance in those days and just got a new one every year.....
Had a Trapper waveboard built in Australia and it was great in Torquay (in those days on NP Cambat waves) but it never really worked for me in the Netherlands.... Wasn't the fault of the board though....
Fast forward to the 2000's: I was lucky to be supported by our local Hotsails importer. Great sails, but the sail specs were always of by miles.... The SOS boards (Sean Ordonez) were very radical but I don't think that that the volume was always as printed on the board.....
Later I moved to goya and quatro boards and goya sails. Good quality and sails pretty much rigged to the specs.
Now on Ezzy, wow rigging sails is a no brainer! Fantastic! I will have to see how they hold up, but first impressions: build to last!
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
a quiver of sails. one or 2 sizes from that quiver just don't have the pizzazz of others in the quiver.
Rant quoted :) Ah, the above one, had it 2 times in a row in otherwise good quivers of the same manufacturer..
Verified not masts or circumstances or whatever..just completely different aspect ratio, foil and behavior.
Made me switch brand, fool me twice shame on me :)
Also worth noting... and I'm sure it's not just me , sometimes I use the same combo of gear rigged the same way and it feels great and other days it feels like a dog. Depending on my fungshway.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..choco said..
Being out in the country I don't have the privilege of demoing gear before i buy, in saying that most of my gear has been great can't recall and duds.
Didn't you once cut a speed board in 2 or at least threaten to.
Nothing to do with the board but customer service, board was great got many PB's on it, service crap
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
Depending on my fungshway.
I am trying to rig to the weathers fungshway now and it ain't happening.
I've had mostly good luck with boards, with just one exception years ago where the board was way over-marketed. The same seems to be true for many folks I often sail with. But there's one manufacturer who makes sails that seem to last just half as long as other brands, or even sails from the same manufacturer 8-10 years ago. One big thing is that the luff sleeve design completely ignores what happens to the sail when rigging and de-rigging. The sails crinkle a lot more than sails with a proper luff sleeve design, so panels need to be replaced a lot sooner. I love some old sails I still have from the brand, but would not consider buying new sails from them. This is based not just on personal experience, but also on how often sails come in for repair, and what top-level sailors have stated. Perhaps it's understandable for the specialized sails top-level sailors use in competition, but it seems to now be common for the brand's freeride sails, too. And yes, the same brand has some sizes that just don't rig and work well at all, while other sizes are great.
At least with respect to durability, Ezzy's are at the other end of the spectrum, in a class by themselves in this respect. That said, I prefer lighter sails that depower completely, even if that means having to replace them more often.
The sail bags on the first two sails I bought suffered badly from corrosion and the zips eventually froze up altogether. A few years later, I purchased a new sail, same brand, and the zip is perfect. No problems with corrosion and it works easily every time. It would appear that the manufacturer made a point of fixing a minor but exasperating issue.
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
Also worth noting... and I'm sure it's not just me , sometimes I use the same combo of gear rigged the same way and it feels great and other days it feels like a dog. Depending on my fungshway.
Can't understate your point, but to be fair (to me) I've sold gear that I didn't rate only to have the buyer move it on after a few months or had the buyer review the piece of kit and give it the same rating for the same reasons or even seen comments on Seabreeze that match my thoughts.
Select to expand quoteMarkSSC said..
The sail bags on the first two sails I bought suffered badly from corrosion and the zips eventually froze up altogether. A few years later, I purchased a new sail, same brand, and the zip is perfect. No problems with corrosion and it works easily every time. It would appear that the manufacturer made a point of fixing a minor but exasperating issue.
Yup how hard is it to make zips that work. Well not hard because some gear bags are excellent
Why do some board manufacturers sell boards with such **** fins? I don't get it.
I'd rather save a couple of hundred off the board price, and have them keep their ****ty fins so I can buy fins from someone that knows how to design fins. Better still tell me what fins the testers prefer.
it was very refreshing to see a sponsored sailor this week release a video with comments about tails being too narrow and rocking a set of fins from another brand. 2 reasons why I don't buy that brand laid out in plain sight. Their tails are too narrow and their fins suck nuts. Actually there fins get critiqued regularly online and yet...
To continue in grumpy old man mode I've wasted thousands of dollars on fins that sucked. The problem is I can tell immediately but I persist with the fin. Eventually the fin gets relegated to the bottom of the bucket. In future I'm just going to send them back for a refund.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
it was very refreshing to see a sponsored sailor this week release a video with comments about tails being too narrow and rocking a set of fins from another brand. 2 reasons why I don't buy that brand laid out in plain sight. Their tails are too narrow and their fins suck nuts. Actually there fins get critiqued regularly online and yet...
starboard?
Looks like a good forecast incoming so I may get over it soon. But while I'm at it ..
What's with screws stripping and every fricking brand needing a different tool
