Forums > Windsurfing General

Measuring wind speed, real time versus averaged 15 seconds

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Created by Sandman1221 > 9 months ago, 20 Feb 2021
Sandman1221
2776 posts
20 Feb 2021 1:15AM
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My old wind meter, anemometer, just gave real time wind speed and min/max, got a new one that averages wind speed for 15 seconds, thinking the average speed will help me better select the right sail, wing and shims, for foiling. Too often I am over sailed, or under winged, using real time wind speed.

Ben1973
1007 posts
20 Feb 2021 10:24AM
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You try working out what average they are using in the forecast, there's no standard. It can be any where from 1sec to 20mins

Gorgo
VIC, 5098 posts
20 Feb 2021 2:01PM
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BOM readings are average over 10 minutes with peak gusts over 3 seconds.

www.bom.gov.au/catalogue/observations/about-weather-observations.shtml

I gave up messing around with hand held wind meters decades ago. There is no way they can give you a meaningful number to base your gear choice on. They are too vulnerable to local factors and user error. It's far better to use your senses and experience.

Rule 2 is to get out on your gear and just make it work. You would be surprised at how much range you can get foiling when you work on your technique and attitude.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
20 Feb 2021 7:43PM
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Select to expand quote
Gorgo said..
I gave up messing around with hand held wind meters decades ago. There is no way they can give you a meaningful number to base your gear choice on. They are too vulnerable to local factors and user error. It's far better to use your senses and experience.




Hmmmm, I use my anemometer (it's a good one - pure analog) almost every single time I go sailing and know exactly how to interpret it for my needs. Yes, sometimes there is not a good way/place to get a meaningful reading, but there mostly is in the places I sail.

And then, I use my analysis of the readings and my experience to set up my gear.

I might add that it doesnt really matter how you measure it, or in what units, or even if you personal anemometer is calibrated way off standard. All that matters is if you know from experience how to interpret it for your needs.

Sandman1221
2776 posts
20 Feb 2021 10:23PM
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Select to expand quote
sailquik said..
Gorgo said..
I gave up messing around with hand held wind meters decades ago. There is no way they can give you a meaningful number to base your gear choice on. They are too vulnerable to local factors and user error. It's far better to use your senses and experience.




Hmmmm, I use my anemometer (it's a good one - pure analog) almost every single time I go sailing and know exactly how to interpret it for my needs. Yes, sometimes there is not a good way/place to get a meaningful reading, but there mostly is in the places I sail.

And then, I use my analysis of the readings and my experience to set up my gear.

I might add that it doesnt really matter how you measure it, or in what units, or even if you personal anemometer is calibrated way off standard. All that matters is if you know from experience how to interpret it for your needs.


well spoken sailquik!, my old anemometer certainly helped, but it was hard to judge how much time the wind spends at a certain speed in gusty conditions, so I would mentally record the wind speed range, but that was not always accurate. By using 15 sec. averaged wind speed I am hoping I will more accurately interpret the wind speed range.

I figure the 15 sec. average will work because I only need about 5-10 sec. to get in-flight, once in-flight can handle lower and higher winds.

Grantmac
2317 posts
21 Feb 2021 4:42AM
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If you rigged by sensor where I sail you would be wrong 95% of the time. The Mk1 eyeball works far better.

LeeD
3939 posts
21 Feb 2021 5:34AM
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If only engineering was applicable.

Sandman1221
2776 posts
21 Feb 2021 7:06AM
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Grantmac said..
If you rigged by sensor where I sail you would be wrong 95% of the time. The Mk1 eyeball works far better.


glad I do not sail there, I usually have onshore winds so easy to read.

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
21 Feb 2021 10:25AM
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Grantmac said..
If you rigged by sensor where I sail you would be wrong 95% of the time. The Mk1 eyeball works far better.





Quote: "...you would be wrong..."

Not the sensor.

Your 'eyeball' is just another sensor.

mareks360
119 posts
22 Feb 2021 12:20AM
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I will have multiple takes on the Topic of: "Measuring wind speed, real time versus averaged 15 seconds"

1. Estimating Wind for selecting the Right Sail:
When I started windsurfing in the year of 1980, there was probably a choice of Standard Sail 6.3m and maybe 5.5m for "stronger" winds therefore it was simple: "use one of 2 sails and either go out or not".
Things have changed for me moving to Australia in March 1997, having more sails in range from 4.1m to 8.8m made it more important to not only pick a right sail for the conditions but also "calibrate my senses". After each session I started to take screenshots of Sydney Airport Wind Graph (when Windsurfing Botany Bay). It was in km/h at the time. Here is an example from August 29th 1999:

Here is a almost 22 year old screenshot:

So I started to take notes and in my Electronic Journal I made the following entry for the period of time I was on the water:
"29/8/99, wind6.gif - 8.8m, BB, max north (almost perfect for 8.8m), light2moderate+ (28-38 km/h), "
"BB"-Botany Bay, "max north" - means location: Bestic St intersection with The Grand Parade at Kyeemagh.

Conclusion: You can "calibrate your senses" by watching what is on the water and later analyze graphs on iWindsurf, Weather Underground, and many other websites.


2. Calibrating Specific (on-line) Weather Station for Wind Direction:
Do also "calibration of specific weather station" for specific wind direction, I always have anemometer with me while Windsurfing/Windfoiling and often take the reading at the dock (if the beach has a dock) or at least the furthest point least affected by e.g. trees on the shore.
Later compare it with the weather station reading for that specific timestamp.
Then I know, for the e.g. specific SW wind direction I need to substract 5mph from specific Weather Station reading near by.


3. My own personal approach to sail selection
"Scrolling the tape" 40+ years forward since I started windsurfing, I own 24 Windsurfing/Windfoiling sails in range from 4.6m to 12.0m.
BUT I mostly use only several sails in the range from 9.1m to 12.0m and actually my most favorite 10.8m Loft Oxygen 10.8m for the wind range from 1mph to 20mph. While some of my friends like to go to the shore and change sails multiple times during the day for what I refer as "ping pong table sailing" (short distance BAF), I like to use one sail for 5 to 6 hours at a time. I am a Roamer, Rambler, Rover, (I guess it gets a bit into a Pirates theme: R..,R..,R..,).
Please note it is Winter Here and temperature outside while Windsurfing from ~0C (32F) & ~10C (50F)
Here is n example report so you can get some idea what I am doing and how from our "NW Windtalk" for Windsurfers Windfoilers Forum (Pacific North West of the USA and Canada):

"2/19/21 Sun & Rain Patrol - Coulon Lk Wa - Report"

groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/topic/2_19_21_sun_rain_patrol/80778557


4. Making your Own Weather Station on the Water or Near the water
Well, I tried to brainstorm some ideas and also share some of my own thoughts, concepts, BUT I got greatly misunderstood.
You can see what I wrote and what were some of the responses:

"Any thoughts how to have inexpensive but accurate measurement of actual wind speed while windsurfing ?"
groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/topic/80387233


5. Analysis of Your Specific Windsurfing Area can get quite complex:
Analysis of you local area, in my example it is Lake Washington Seattle WA USA, can really get complex with all different sensors on the shore.
Even one airport like: "Municipal Renton Airport" having 3 different wind graphs (3 different sensors I suppose) ?!
Only one on a lake buoy, but you can only get "current reading", you can't get history graph from it.
Here is my analysis.

"Wind Sensors for the South end of the Lk Wa + wind history: Re: Weekend Sailing"
groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/topic/80458164


PS: Some People Think I am going too deep with my analysis.

Well, I am not only Sailor, Windsurfer/Windfoiler, Swimmer, Ex Lifeguard but also a SCUBA Diver & Underwater Photographer.
Photo from Puget Sound, Whidbey Island, Possession Sound (Possession Point Fingers) where I got "Bizarre Encounters with Stellar Sea Lion" and lived to tell the tale with a documentary & photo analysis - but that is completely another story.

What do you expect from Scuba Diver ?!
Stay on the surface of any topic only or... "Dive Deep"



Sandman1221
2776 posts
22 Feb 2021 8:35AM
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Wow, that is some interesting and helpful information, thanks Mareks360.

Sandman1221
2776 posts
22 Feb 2021 8:41AM
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Used meter on 15 sec. average mode today in very gusty conditions, rigged correctly for the conditions. Also started using knots as the units, normally I use mph but I have stab. shim and wing ranges in knots, going to knots on the meter worked good.



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"Measuring wind speed, real time versus averaged 15 seconds" started by Sandman1221