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Mast Ferrule Crack?

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Created by TonyC > 9 months ago, 29 May 2009
TonyC
WA, 410 posts
29 May 2009 12:36AM
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Out of action :(( and had a very close look at my kit. Found the tiny crack on the ferrule of my X6 mast - can't tell whether it is through the actual ferrule (can't see any crack inside) or just the top of the bonding glue holding the ferrule in place. Don't want to find out the hard way when sailing. I use this mast with one of my best sails, a 7.8 RSS, and don't want to stuff the sail. Any ideas?


555
892 posts
29 May 2009 4:56AM
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Looks dodgy to me..

I'd be thinking along the lines of putting the top half on, but not all the way, and then having someone bend it while you look into the suspect area (wearing glasses of course ;-) if it moves, it's stuffed.

The three exploded NP's I've seen first hand have failed further down, around the bottom of the ferrule insert, so hopefully it's just the bonding glue.. That said - you are left with the question of why the bonding glue has come under stress, and what else has moved from where it's supposed to be to cause that?

WindmanV
VIC, 788 posts
29 May 2009 9:03AM
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Hi, Tony,

A Victorian member had a similar problem about 12-15 months ago: sorry, can't find the thread (I'll have another try later this morning), but perhaps he'll reply to you.

I recall that cracking was a known concern with "older" X6's, but the problem had been cured just after he wrote in.

I like the idea that 555 put forward: bending the ferrule to see if it opens up.

Regards,

WindmanV

Mark _australia
WA, 23440 posts
29 May 2009 7:57AM
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The thinner inside part is just glued in the outer tube, so a crack is not a major big deal compared toa crack in the mast tube itself. For example, a crack anywhere else that big would be guaranteed to explode very soon if used.

I would glue it with a thin to medium CA from a model shop (superglue that is designed to be used when the two surfaces are not touching, or else epoxy it and keep adding little bits as it soaks down into the crack. Should be good for a while longer (cos they are glued in with epocy anyway!!) but I would not sail miles offshore or alone etc.

WindmanV
VIC, 788 posts
29 May 2009 10:31AM
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Hi, All,

I Googled "X6 mast cracks" and got this result:

www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=103650&sid=acc6aee3b201741a8132f0c2df24e676

There are other "hits" too, but this summed it all up.

Regards,

WindmanV

TonyC
WA, 410 posts
29 May 2009 1:23PM
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Thanks for the advice and links (very interesting articles on those links on mast construction/flaws). Will try the "555 bend test" with the top just slightly out, having someone bend the rig whilst I see if the crack moves / opens up at all. It is an old X6 but would like to keep it going if i can.

I was thinking (as suggested in one of forum link replies) that maybe i could get a section of a busted rdm mast and maybe glue inside the ferrule for the length of the ferrule (+4") (if I can find the right diameter). From what I can see there is no problem with the mast elsewhere below the ferrule or bottom of the top section, apart from some general cam wear. Anyone have any bits/sections of an old busted rdm?

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
2 Jun 2009 6:12PM
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TonyC said...

Out of action :(( and had a very close look at my kit. Found the tiny crack on the ferrule of my X6 mast - can't tell whether it is through the actual ferrule (can't see any crack inside) or just the top of the bonding glue holding the ferrule in place. Don't want to find out the hard way when sailing. I use this mast with one of my best sails, a 7.8 RSS, and don't want to stuff the sail. Any ideas?





I freaked out when I noticed many cracks below the ferrule in my 430 X6 early this year and promptly contacted NP, refer photo below.



Question to NP and solution (reply) as follows:


Question:

Hi,

I recently discovered at least 8 hairline cracks in my X6 430cm mast just below the ferrule. I purchased the mast new in September 2007 from Windsurfing Perth and have since only used it for flat water freeride sailing not more than 20 times since new.

Referring to the attached photo, before taking this pic I rubbed chalk into the mast surface then wiped it off in order to highlight the hairline cracks as mentioned (each crack travels around the circumference of the mast).

Can you please advise if this type of 'wear & tear' is normal for an X6 mast of this age/usage?

Also, would you consider that there a risk of mast failure due to the possibility of the hairline cracks weakening this section of the mast?

Regards,

Garry


Solution:

Hi Garry,

This is a mast with an integrated ferrule design, for that reason there needs to be some build up for the top part of the mast to saddle on. So right under the connection between top and base there is a wrap around the mast at 90 degree to prevent the top section from sliding over the bottom, with the mast bending these 90 degree layers come separate and show some hair line cracks.

Even though the visual might not look it but the mast is perfectly fine, the structure of the mast is actually underneath this build up.

Regards Pieter Bijl
NPDC



I have since use the mast at least 6 times with no sign of it breaking, though I have on occasions thought that I may need to get a new mast soon!

Looks like crack in your mast is somewhat different, though I would suggest you do the same and contact them via online enquiry form.

TonyC
WA, 410 posts
2 Jun 2009 8:23PM
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Thanks Garry, will contact them and post their reply.

kato
VIC, 3506 posts
2 Jun 2009 11:38PM
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I think I might send them a email as well as mine X6 has the same cracks around the ferrule. Used this mast about 30 times or about 5000k,s

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
3 Jun 2009 12:49AM
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Tony C,

I also talked to Reg at Windsurfing Perth prior to contacting NP about the cracks and he said he knew of people who had been using their X6 masts with the same hairline cracks below the ferrule for a number of years without any failures. Maybe worth showing him your mast with the cracked ferrule and get his opinion as well.

Regarding sleeving a section of an rdm mast inside the ferrule, I suspect that if you did this then you may strengthen the ferrule area considerably but this may create two weak points, one at the bottom of the sleeve and one at the top where the greatly increased ferrule wall thickness meets the normal tubular wall thickness.

With respect to others who have given their advice re X6 masts, it could be misleading to believe that the ferrules on all X6 masts are actually glued in to the bottom section based on what Peter Bijl of NP said in his reply to my question:

This is a mast with an integrated ferrule design, for that reason there needs to be some build up for the top part of the mast to saddle on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his comment indicates that the ferrule is actually an extension (or continuation) of the mast bottom section where it reduces in diameter to sleeve into the mast top section, hence the build up of material below the ferrule. I've heard that recent builds of X6 std dia masts don't have the same problem with hairline cracks as earlier X6 masts due to different ferrule design, though not sure how X6 masts prior to 07 were built for that matter.

How old is your X6 Tony?

TonyC
WA, 410 posts
3 Jun 2009 1:16AM
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Hi Garry, not sure on the age, I would say atleast 3 yo - bought it used (from Reg actually). Inspecting the mast - it has an integrated ferrule - not a smaller diameter tube glued in (like most masts). So it is a continuation of the mast with I presume build up leading to the outside where the top section sits (actually looks like a combination with internal build up as well).

Haven't done the bend test yet - will try the next day or so. Will be interesting to see what NP say as the mast appears in great condition everywhere else. I understand what you are saying about the extra stiffness of a sleeve causing point loadings at each end of the sleeve - thanks, I hadn't considered that. Only other way to increase strength I suppose would be to vacuum / balloon pressure some carbon directional vertically and then some weave cloth on the inside of the ferrule.

Would be fun to try but have to make sure it can get some bite on the existing mast - would just sanding be sufficient? The weave should hold the directionals in place and literally blow up a balloon inside some protective plastic to press it firmly in place.

Cheers, Tony

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
3 Jun 2009 1:37AM
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Shame it's got an integrated ferrule! A number of years ago, I busted a fiberspar 30% carbon mast clean at the join and luckily found an identical bottom section which had snapped off around boom level. I managed to get the remains of the broken ferrule out without damaging the inside of the mast too much and also removed the good ferrule intact. Glued the good ferrule into the good bottom section and got at least another 2 years out of the mast!

TonyC
WA, 410 posts
4 Jun 2009 9:18AM
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Attached correspondence with Neil Pryde:


I found the tiny crack on the ferrule of my X6 mast (see photo attached) - can't tell whether it is through the actual ferrule (can't see any crack inside) or just the top carbon layer. Don't want to find out the hard way when sailing. I use this mast with one of my best sails, a 7.8 RSS, and don't want to stuff the sail. Can you please advise. It is an older X6 mast

Neil Pryde Response:

These cracks appear in the mast just around the ferrule. This is because the mast has an integrated ferrule, so the ferrule comes from the mast. So about 20 cm from the ferrule the structural part of the mast is starting to taper, to be able to connect it to the top, then there is a build up layer that is only there to keep the top from sliding over the base. This buildup layer is wrapped around the mast and not to effect the bend there is no structure in the layer, meaning you have nothing to worry about as well as this being the reason the cracks appear in the first place. As the mast bends these fibers get compressed and separated, this in the long run would result into some small cracks in the aria, nothing to worry about.

Regards Pieter Bijl
NPDC


Further Question:

Thanks for your prompt reply - however the crack I am concerned about is on the ferrule itself, not on the built up material below the joint. Please see the attached photo which shows the crack just above the built up area where the top section slides over.

Neil Pryde Response #2:

Just looking at your photo and here it is same thing, there is a still
a small layer that is used as filler to machine into to ensure a proper
fit of the top onto the ferrule.

So again nothing to worry about.

Regards Pieter Bijl
NPDC



Think I will take the mast into Windrush and have them do a carbon layer or two just inside the ferrule to be safe.



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"Mast Ferrule Crack?" started by TonyC