Hi all -
I am pretty sure there've been similar questions on this forum before, but I am looking for some help with regards to my next gear purchase.
As a bit of background, I've been windsurfing for the past ~10 years, mostly focused on longboard sailing. I own 2 windsurf / SUP hybrid boards, my main board being the Fanatic Fly 10'6 at 177 lts. I'd call myself an intermediate windsurfer, my sweet spot being planing sailing in conditions up to 5-6 bft. Usually sailing with a harness, but no footstraps. No water-starting either.
I've decided to take the plunge and switch to more modern-like shortboard freerides for my next gear purchase, and would appreciate some view shortlisting the options I am considering.
Basically, I am considering buying one of the below:
Tahe (ex-BIC) Techno Foil 160
- 255 x 82 @ 160 lts
- Typical freeride shape, based on the earliest Techno models
Naish Titan 150
- 248 x 85 @ 150 lts
- shorter and wider, also featuring a more fish-like shape
JP Fun Ride 155
- 265 x 75 @ 155 lts
- Elongated freeride shape, giving it a more longboard-like feel
- Looks very evenly distributed as well, I suspect this board could even be SUP-ed
Leaving price considerations aside, the questions I am trying to evaluate are the following:
1. As all these boards have similar volumes, how should I be examining the "shorter / wider VS. longer / narrower" topic? As a longboard windsurfer, I'd be naturally inclined towards the Fun Ride (as it is the longest one of that lot), but from a practical perspective: can I expect a drastically different experience (from a usability and technique perspective) coming from these boards?
2. With my 10'6 and 177lts Fanatic, I am usually sailing with a 5.5 sail (for winds up to 5 bft), and a 4.7 (for 5-6 bft). Empirically speaking, what is the wind range I could use my 5.5 with the above 3 boards?
Apologies for long rant, hopefully the questions make sense. I really appreciate any view or similar experience anyone could share.
Thanks a lot - best regards
I'd go the JP , even though it's the longest and thinnest it is way different to what you are riding and will blow your mind . It will work fine with the 5.5 . I'd also think of getting a 6.5 .
All will offer a similar ride but Techno will be far more durable than a JP or Naish and much cheaper with good resale value..
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
I'd go the JP , even though it's the longest and thinnest it is way different to what you are riding and will blow your mind . It will work fine with the 5.5 . I'd also think of getting a 6.5 .
Thanks Imax1!
Indeed, I will also be buying a >6m sail as well. How do you think the 5.5 would work with the other 2 boards, around 4-5bft for example?
Firstly.... 10yrs windsurfing and you only have 2 boards and 2 small sails??
Need more info
how heavy are you? Was wondering maybe a plan suggested by Imax may work especially looking at sail choice as you have listed biggish boards similar size (wider) than your sup. However need to understand how you selected the board sizes nominated?
are you keeping the sup?? May give more choice in selecting a smaller board
have you tried any windsurf boards?
cheers Jeff
I'd be looking at boards around 120 or less, unless you are very large. Don't get stuck with long board technique. It's time you got the need for speed!
Select to expand quoteremery said..
I'd be looking at boards around 120 or less, unless you are very large. Don't get stuck with long board technique. It's time you got the need for speed!
Hi Remery - thank you for your views.
I weigh around 85-87 kgs.
Isn't a drop from 170 to 120 lts, a bit over-optimistic? Especially with not being able to water-start and all?
Just try beach starting in deeper and deeper water, all of a sudden you'll be water starting. Just don't learn with both feet on the board. With a board around 120L you will be able to rope start of you get stuck.
Select to expand quotejirvin4505 said..
Firstly.... 10yrs windsurfing and you only have 2 boards and 2 small sails??
Need more info
how heavy are you? Was wondering maybe a plan suggested by Imax may work especially looking at sail choice as you have listed biggish boards similar size (wider) than your sup. However need to understand how you selected the board sizes nominated?
are you keeping the sup?? May give more choice in selecting a smaller board
have you tried any windsurf boards?
cheers Jeff
Hi Jeff - thanks for your views.
I weigh 85-87 kgs. I think I am keeping the SUP, both as a SUP as well as a longboard option.
I have been looking for a volume reduction of ~20lts, hence the board selection of around 150 lts. I could also look at extending it down to 135-140lts, but don't feel confident going below that. Especially with not being able to water-start and all.
Any advice or particular recommendation, more than welcome!
Select to expand quoteanodizer said..remery said..
I'd be looking at boards around 120 or less, unless you are very large. Don't get stuck with long board technique. It's time you got the need for speed!
Hi Remery - thank you for your views.
I weigh around 85-87 kgs.
Isn't a drop from 170 to 120 lts, a bit over-optimistic? Especially with not being able to water-start and all?
BTW, you don't need a smaller board to waterstart. You could learn on your existing boards. It will just be harder to push the board under the sail to re-orient it properly. If I was using sails as small as you due to weather I'd be doing it as much as possible.
I got a shortboard, a Blast 145, when I weighed 95kg. Now I'm closer to 83-86kg depending on how much I've pigged out, and that board is nice and floaty. At my weight I can also uphaul a 115L, but that's after some practice on the 145L, and trying to uphaul a sinky 102L (and failing many times).
The 145 DID feel a bit wobbly compared to my 11'8" 220L exocet link when I was first uphauling, and it is a bit awkward to uphaul in swell (the 115L too), but in flat water it hasn't been hard. You should be able to uphaul a 120 in flat water without too much drama.
A 120L is going to be a lot easier to carry around. When you get into both straps and are planing, there will be some differences. It's also super easy to get in the rear strap if it's set up as a 3 strap board, and not 4 more outboard straps. If you get a smaller board that is still uphaulable that can be set up for 3 or 4 straps, you could progress very well with one board. If not, you can just use the inboard position.
I went from not being able to plane in both straps, learning to foil, and getting into the outboard straps with ONE board. If you grabbed a 130L Blast or something similar with good fin sailing characteristics but with a foilbox, you could literally learn to waterstart, plane in both straps, and foil with one board.
Unless you want to ride waves, then that may be a different story.
I'm wondering why, if you sail in 20kn plus, are you looking at what are essentially beginner boards? I think you need to go much smaller
There are all sorts of setup issues when trying to use a 5-6m sail for planing on a very wide board, you can't get outboard like you need to and its just all wrong. It would not handle the chop you find in "5-6 bft".
These sizes/shapes are designed for beginners, or 8m- big fin - planing - outboard straps.
I think it makes people stagnate as they are stuck with a setup that doesn't really work in stronger winds. Sometimes its better to just bite the bullet and go smaller to get out of your comfort zone for a bit.
Planing in 20kn on a 120L is going to feel a LOT better than on one of these battleships, esp as you are sued to the longboard glide
Further, they are hard to waterstart as u can't get your foot over to the centreline with a 85 wide board unless you're a gymnast..
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
I'm wondering why, if you sail in 20kn plus, are you looking at what are essentially beginner boards? I think you need to go much smaller
There are all sorts of setup issues when trying to use a 5-6m sail for planing on a very wide board, you can't get outboard like you need to and its just all wrong. It would not handle the chop you find in "5-6 bft".
These sizes/shapes are designed for beginners, or 8m- big fin - planing - outboard straps.
I think it makes people stagnate as they are stuck with a setup that doesn't really work in stronger winds. Sometimes its better to just bite the bullet and go smaller to get out of your comfort zone for a bit.
Planing in 20kn on a 120L is going to feel a LOT better than on one of these battleships, esp as you are sued to the longboard glide
Further, they are hard to waterstart as u can't get your foot over to the centreline with a 85 wide board unless you're a gymnast..
second this.... keep the longboard for your lightwind setup and get a proper freeride shortboard.. say 110-120 lt to start with then smaller later on.
the key to transitioning from longboard to short board is finding a spot that has a big area of knee to waist deep water. wait till it's pumping then go there and try the short board. beach start and blast, beach start and blast and repeat. other than smashing the nose off your board not much can go wrong and you can walk back if needed.
in the meantime use your longboards to practice waterstarts, harness etc. waterstarts are easier in stronger winds.
^^ Yeah I think people missed the part about 5-6 Beaufort......
I agree about go out when its windy and waist deep. Then once that's done - My first tip for deep waterstarting is go when its so windy its hard not to be lifted out of the water. 85cm wide board, 12kn and drifting downwind so u only feel 10kn in the sail is frustrating no wonder people are put off. However something 30L over your bodyweight, slightly overpowered conditions - noice. They'll be lifted up and standing in no time, and learning to sheet out when coming up won't take long. 
+1 for something around 120L. I'm heavier than you and wear thick wetsuits all the time, 120L isn't a tough uphaul.
Is your focus waves or speed?
When you get a short board you'll need to learn what mast foot pressure is all about.
Personally I'd get something like 135/140 litres, then when its light wind you can still get home and uphaul it.
I recon just the 15 or so litres less than the 155 litre boards that you were previously looking at will be way better in higher winds, like Mark said, they are beginner sizes for most people.
+1 for around the 130 litre mark at your weight. The slightly bigger volume will increase your range of sails and sailable wind and is good size for learning to water start and when the wind drops out and you're miles from shore. If you, like me, have a few too many beers, meat pies and such it won't matter. Consider the new Tahe (Bic) Techno 130 Foil with deep tuttle fin box. If you really want something with a bit more float for extra security and even more sail range - the Techno 148 is also foil ready, (deep tuttle) uphaulable, fast and very durable (ps - you won't smash the nose on one of them). I went from a long board to the 148 Bic and have no regrets at all. I have sailed it with 5.0m in 30 knots and planing on 9.5m in 12 knots, and as others have mentioned, perhaps the cheaper price of a Tahe you could invest in a few more sails? and buy a foil later down the track.
anodizer,
In order to get the most satisfying answer and the shortest path to maximum joy windsurfing, every person needs to answer several questions and get them right:
1) What Do you enjoy the most:
a) Maneuvering - free style, free ride, etc ?
You may continue to consider your 3 boards with smaller sails.
b) Max Speed, Max Mileage UP Down Wind - race, slalom, distance, UP Down Wind ?
You may consider a wider board with wider tail like Formula Boards - these boards plane the soonest - if you like planing as early as possible
c) Max Speed, Max Mileage BAF - race, slalom, distance, more BAF (back and forth) beam reach ?
You may consider a wider board with oval tail like Go Boards - these boards plane the soonest - if you like planing as early as possible
d) Wave Sailing, Swell riding - on bigger bodies of water, seas, oceans & bays
You may consider smaller boards (like some suggested) as long as the wind is relatively steady and predictable
2) What is you average wind speed in your location?
If I were living in Hood River Oregon (Columbia Gorge), I would use 5m-6m sails mostly. I live near Seattle WA, at Lake Washington therefore I am using mostly 9m-12m sails and I am 205LB (93kg) in speedos while 225lb (102kg) in gear.
Get some statistics like from IWindsurf:
www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=119&siteID=1316&days=1&Isection=Wind+Yesterday
3) What is the wind variability at your location ? Can it drop from 30mph (26 knots) to 0-5mph (0-4knots) and you need board volume to get back ?
If I were to continue live in Sydney (20+ years ago), I would still use sinkers on Botany Bay next to the Sydney Airport because I had sandy beaches from 3 sides to walk back to my car if something broke. When you windsurf on a Lake that has a lot of private docks, concrete walls etc, you want more volume in particular when wind drops while boats still buzz around you and they create a lot of wake.
4) Is the water relatively flat in your Location or choppy, swell-y
That determine also what board is best to handle waves, (wave sailing), what sail to use e.g. wave sails, how durable your sail mast must be to to handle constant pounding.
These are several considerations that are important for You to get "the gear right" & get soonest to the maximum satisfaction. Specifically for You.
Everybody is a bit different.
Many have Great Intentions to share with You what works for Them. Though be aware what works for "Person A" (in their location) does not necessarily works for "Person B" (in another location).
This is still assuming you are not interested in hydrofoil yet and want to stick to "fin windsurfing" for now.
Select to expand quotemareks360 said..
anodizer,
In order to get the most satisfying answer and the shortest path to maximum joy windsurfing, every person needs to answer several questions and get them right:
1) What Do you enjoy the most:
a) Maneuvering - free style, free ride, etc ?
You may continue to consider your 3 boards with smaller sails.
b) Max Speed, Max Mileage UP Down Wind - race, slalom, distance, UP Down Wind ?
You may consider a wider board with wider tail like Formula Boards - these boards plane the soonest - if you like planing as early as possible
c) Max Speed, Max Mileage BAF - race, slalom, distance, more BAF (back and forth) beam reach ?
You may consider a wider board with oval tail like Go Boards - these boards plane the soonest - if you like planing as early as possible
d) Wave Sailing, Swell riding - on bigger bodies of water, seas, oceans & bays
You may consider smaller boards (like some suggested) as long as the wind is relatively steady and predictable
2) What is you average wind speed in your location?
If I were living in Hood River Oregon (Columbia Gorge), I would use 5m-6m sails mostly. I live near Seattle WA, at Lake Washington therefore I am using mostly 9m-12m sails and I am 205LB (93kg) in speedos while 225lb (102kg) in gear.
Get some statistics like from IWindsurf:
www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=119&siteID=1316&days=1&Isection=Wind+Yesterday
3) What is the wind variability at your location ? Can it drop from 30mph (26 knots) to 0-5mph (0-4knots) and you need board volume to get back ?
If I were to continue live in Sydney (20+ years ago), I would still use sinkers on Botany Bay next to the Sydney Airport because I had sandy beaches from 3 sides to walk back to my car if something broke. When you windsurf on a Lake that has a lot of private docks, concrete walls etc, you want more volume in particular when wind drops while boats still buzz around you and they create a lot of wake.
4) Is the water relatively flat in your Location or choppy, swell-y
That determine also what board is best to handle waves, (wave sailing), what sail to use e.g. wave sails, how durable your sail mast must be to to handle constant pounding.
These are several considerations that are important for You to get "the gear right" & get soonest to the maximum satisfaction. Specifically for You.
Everybody is a bit different.
Many have Great Intentions to share with You what works for Them. Though be aware what works for "Person A" (in their location) does not necessarily works for "Person B" (in another location).
This is still assuming you are not interested in hydrofoil yet and want to stick to "fin windsurfing" for now.
Sorry, I think you mean well, but that's way too much information and over complexifies a relatively simple choice. I'd say Mark is on the money about going a bit smaller and narrower out of the OPs comfort zone. I think the key is nailing water starts, it just makes life so much easier and once you do that, you'd end up regretting buying the bigger gear, especially if you often get force 5 to 6 conditions. Just my 2c worth
Select to expand quotemusorianin said..mareks360 said..
anodizer,
In order to get the most satisfying answer and the shortest path to maximum joy windsurfing, every person needs to answer several questions and get them right:
1) What Do you enjoy the most:
a) Maneuvering - free style, free ride, etc ?
You may continue to consider your 3 boards with smaller sails.
b) Max Speed, Max Mileage UP Down Wind - race, slalom, distance, UP Down Wind ?
You may consider a wider board with wider tail like Formula Boards - these boards plane the soonest - if you like planing as early as possible
c) Max Speed, Max Mileage BAF - race, slalom, distance, more BAF (back and forth) beam reach ?
You may consider a wider board with oval tail like Go Boards - these boards plane the soonest - if you like planing as early as possible
d) Wave Sailing, Swell riding - on bigger bodies of water, seas, oceans & bays
You may consider smaller boards (like some suggested) as long as the wind is relatively steady and predictable
2) What is you average wind speed in your location?
If I were living in Hood River Oregon (Columbia Gorge), I would use 5m-6m sails mostly. I live near Seattle WA, at Lake Washington therefore I am using mostly 9m-12m sails and I am 205LB (93kg) in speedos while 225lb (102kg) in gear.
Get some statistics like from IWindsurf:
www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=119&siteID=1316&days=1&Isection=Wind+Yesterday
3) What is the wind variability at your location ? Can it drop from 30mph (26 knots) to 0-5mph (0-4knots) and you need board volume to get back ?
If I were to continue live in Sydney (20+ years ago), I would still use sinkers on Botany Bay next to the Sydney Airport because I had sandy beaches from 3 sides to walk back to my car if something broke. When you windsurf on a Lake that has a lot of private docks, concrete walls etc, you want more volume in particular when wind drops while boats still buzz around you and they create a lot of wake.
4) Is the water relatively flat in your Location or choppy, swell-y
That determine also what board is best to handle waves, (wave sailing), what sail to use e.g. wave sails, how durable your sail mast must be to to handle constant pounding.
These are several considerations that are important for You to get "the gear right" & get soonest to the maximum satisfaction. Specifically for You.
Everybody is a bit different.
Many have Great Intentions to share with You what works for Them. Though be aware what works for "Person A" (in their location) does not necessarily works for "Person B" (in another location).
This is still assuming you are not interested in hydrofoil yet and want to stick to "fin windsurfing" for now.
Sorry, I think you mean well, but that's way too much information and over complexifies a relatively simple choice. I'd say Mark is on the money about going a bit smaller and narrower out of the OPs comfort zone. I think the key is nailing water starts, it just makes life so much easier and once you do that, you'd end up regretting buying the bigger gear, especially if you often get force 5 to 6 conditions. Just my 2c worth
Hey musorianin,
I have been windsurfing for 40 years. I expanded from long boards to funboards / freeride boards / wave boards about 23 years ago and was at "the expansion" crossroads where anodiser is now.
Yeah, whatever. Did you read my first few words? I just have a different view about how much info the guy needs. I'm sure anodiser can decide what info is useful or not... Maybe he's studying your comments eagerly, and if so, great. (PS a lot of folks on this forum have windsurfed a great many years)
Yep, learn to waterstart.
Dedicate a session to it, then practice it at every opportunity.
You can start by sitting in shallow water manipulating the sail until you feel the lift and point the board with your feet.
There are plenty of tutorials on YouTube.
Select to expand quotefelix1111 said..
+1 fanatic blast. the light version.
Yup, I've learned so much on my Blast, best bang for the buck I've gotten with windsurfing
