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How to improve CAM rotaion on sails

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Created by knots > 9 months ago, 8 Jul 2009
knots
WA, 114 posts
8 Jul 2009 7:28PM
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Have tested spray on silicon( food additive).Spray on mast where cam's contact mast.
It is water resistant and increases the rotational performance of can sails.Smooth rotation , no effort ,all cam's rotate together.
In Australia you can buy the product from Bunnings.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
8 Jul 2009 9:54PM
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i don't know what it is but dont get silicon anywhere near epoxy it will soften the epoxy and snap your mast ,
i had this problem with my pryde rs6 6/7 so i packed the inside of the cam 5mm each side so that the batten hits the cam early and problem sorted

Mark _australia
WA, 23441 posts
8 Jul 2009 8:11PM
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errr silicone lubricant spray is not cooking spray (which is just vegie oil in a can).

Vegie oil on mast hmm messy but not life threatening. I hope you don't fry your food in silicone

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
8 Jul 2009 10:22PM
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In my early-days as a joiner I was talked into using silicone spray on the beds of our woodworking machines...made the timber slide beautifully. Unfortunately, anyone who's tried to polish/paint over silicone knows what the outcome was...

Not related to this thread, but as it's already totally confusing, I thought I'd add to the muddle.

Not sure how it would work but there's a product we used to use called 'silverglide' (or 'silbergleiten'...or something, as it was imported at the time). From memory, it's a graphite paste, use it sparingly ($$$) it makes anything slide well!

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
8 Jul 2009 10:22PM
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i hope you have done your sum's mark trust me silicon will make epoxy soft, epoxy is a resin and it doent like silicon

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
9 Jul 2009 9:58AM
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keef said...

i hope you have done your sum's mark trust me silicon will make epoxy soft, epoxy is a resin and it doent like silicon


I think mark's comment was more based on the fact that the term 'food additive' was used when describing silicone spray.
Personally I wouldn't use silicone spray to grease my scone trays either...

sailpilot
QLD, 785 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:16AM
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But, is it the friction on the mast that stops the cams from popping across anyway? My RAM F9 has roller bearing in contact with the mast and the top two cams need punching across unless I use bugger all downhaul.

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:29AM
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you could try this stuff. it's very good.

www.mclubemarine.com/

just don't spray the bottom section of mast or your boom won't stay attached.

club309
QLD, 66 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:29AM
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if you must use a lubricant on your mast I'd try using a dry lubricant like "Mclube". on sailingboats it is used on everything and it won't effect resins. olympic 49er sailors spray most of the front end of their boats with it to make spinnaker handlign and gybing quicker.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:47AM
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Sailhack said...

keef said...

i hope you have done your sum's mark trust me silicon will make epoxy soft, epoxy is a resin and it doent like silicon


I think mark's comment was more based on the fact that the term 'food additive' was used when describing silicone spray.
Personally I wouldn't use silicone spray to grease my scone trays either...


sorry mark & sailhack ill have to pay more attention

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:56AM
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sailpilot said...

But, is it the friction on the mast that stops the cams from popping across anyway?

not allways in some cases it's the batten on the inside of the cam not pushing it across

sailpilot if you haven't tryed putting some packing on the inside of the cam and there still sticking, give it a go nothing ventured nothing gained

sailpilot
QLD, 785 posts
9 Jul 2009 12:59PM
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Thanks Keef, I was thinking (I guess wrongly) that there was too much tension pushing on the cam stopping it from rotating, I'll give the packing it out idea a go next time I rig it up and see what happens.

AUS1111
WA, 3621 posts
9 Jul 2009 1:18PM
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I'd be interested in seeing Knots' recipe for "Silicon Chicken"

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
9 Jul 2009 3:20PM
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i htink this has already been tried.

from memory someone added silicon to the breast!

AUS1111
WA, 3621 posts
9 Jul 2009 4:22PM
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Gestalt said...

i htink this has already been tried.

from memory someone added silicon to the breast!


Boom boom!

Ya gotta love it when a perfectly reasonable thread drifts completely off track.

choco
SA, 4175 posts
9 Jul 2009 6:35PM
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Be careful when using silicon sprays! don't get any near the boom area on the mast because you will forever be adjusting your sliding boom...i'm talking from experience
You could try taking some material off the back of the cam to help the cam pressure.

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
9 Jul 2009 9:50PM
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AUS1111 said...

Gestalt said...

i htink this has already been tried.

from memory someone added silicon to the breast!


Boom boom!

Ya gotta love it when a perfectly reasonable thread drifts completely off track.


reminds me of a band i used to listen to.

the lubricated goat.

isn't drifting the aussie way.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
9 Jul 2009 11:23PM
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choco said...

]
You could try taking some material off the back of the cam to help the cam pressure.
it sounds more like a mast issue try a different mast

knots
WA, 114 posts
11 Jul 2009 10:38AM
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have been testing H4000 silicon spray for 3 months under extreme conditions and have not experienced any of the issues mentioned in the thread.
All I can say is sail rotation is greatly improved.Testing still on going.


nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
11 Jul 2009 10:59AM
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it sounds more like a mast issue try a different mast


I agree: since switching to RDM masts I haven't had any sail rotation issues at all...

Bender
WA, 2235 posts
11 Jul 2009 11:03AM
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nebbian said...


it sounds more like a mast issue try a different mast


I agree: since switching to RDM masts I haven't had any sail rotation issues at all...





Too true Nebs, mind you that nice rotation you have using a RDM mast is no good if you cant waterstart the sail

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
11 Jul 2009 11:32AM
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Bender said...

Too true Nebs, mind you that nice rotation you have using a RDM mast is no good if you cant waterstart the sail



Touché

evets
WA, 685 posts
11 Jul 2009 5:40PM
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Anyone care to give the scientific reason silicone spray would damage a mast?

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
11 Jul 2009 8:40PM
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keef said...

i don't know what it is but dont get silicon anywhere near epoxy it will soften the epoxy and snap your mast ,


ive been meaning to retract that statement and i deserved a red thumb and i don't think it would harm a mast but after saying that, years ago i made a race board of carbon and k/glass and i wanted to have a finnish like a polyester surfboard, so i used a yellow tint in the resin rather than paint so you could see the pattern of the carbon, the board had a windrush sliding mast track so i sprayed it with silicone to make it slide better, well that was befor vacuum bagging and the resin would fall into the core and the glass had to be filled with bog Qcells ect, well the Qcells mixed with epoxy makes the laminate porous and seeing it wasnt sealed with paint ect after spraying the track and silicone( being moisture base) the bog absorbed the moisture from the silicone and the laminate went soft
after saying all that there is a lesson to be learnt, if your doing a repair on your board and your useing bog Qcells /microballoons ect make sure it is totally sealed other wise your board will absorb moisture through the epoxy/Qcell mix

Ben 555
NSW, 455 posts
11 Jul 2009 9:36PM
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Gestalt you have a good memory - the 'goat were a great band ..stu spasm...aah drifting the aussie way well leave it for Panda's excellent thread elsewhere

Had a huge problem with formula sail rotation - got lots of help from the usual suspects on Seabreeze - but wasnt solved until someone on the beach suggested playing with batten tension and then VIOLA - the whole sail rotated without me having to karate kick the bottom two cams across and still had good tension on the batten pockets

knots
WA, 114 posts
13 Jul 2009 10:40AM
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wind surfing guru's.Any feed back on options for increasing Cam rotation performance.Adjusting batten tension does not always work.What do the pro's do?

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
13 Jul 2009 1:35PM
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knots said...

wind surfing guru's.Any feed back on options for increasing Cam rotation performance.Adjusting batten tension does not always work.What do the pro's do?
they don't do anything they buy the correct mast for the sail

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
13 Jul 2009 1:38PM
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not only do the pros buy the correct mast.

they actually try 10 or so out and see which one rigs the best then give all of the others back or sell them on.

Rubby
65 posts
14 Jul 2009 10:13PM
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club309 said...

if you must use a lubricant on your mast I'd try using a dry lubricant like "Mclube". on sailingboats it is used on everything and it won't effect resins. olympic 49er sailors spray most of the front end of their boats with it to make spinnaker handlign and gybing quicker.


I've used this with ambiguous results. They recommend spraying your mast at the beginning of the season with it. Supposedly it will last a number of sessions, but I'm reapplying mine today. Some camber inducers are better than others, I believe. I have a North Spectra sail with excellently rotating cams, but it's harder to thread. There's the rub. Sailmakers face a public that wants their cake and eat it too.

Wannabe
NSW, 148 posts
17 Jul 2009 6:55PM
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Rubby said...

club309 said...

if you must use a lubricant on your mast I'd try using a dry lubricant like "Mclube". on sailingboats it is used on everything and it won't effect resins. olympic 49er sailors spray most of the front end of their boats with it to make spinnaker handlign and gybing quicker.


I've used this with ambiguous results. They recommend spraying your mast at the beginning of the season with it. Supposedly it will last a number of sessions, but I'm reapplying mine today. Some camber inducers are better than others, I believe. I have a North Spectra sail with excellently rotating cams, but it's harder to thread. There's the rub. Sailmakers face a public that wants their cake and eat it too.


On the 29ers and 49ers, it is generally used before every session. And lots of it too, far from sparingly.



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"How to improve CAM rotaion on sails" started by knots