There's a lot of really good advice on the board and if anyone has time - I'd appreciate some more of it.
I'm getting back into the sport after many years out, sailing dinghies and surfing. I still have my old board, a Mistral Garda but its perished in my absence. I set it up for a sail and the boom snapped at the outhaul, so I bought a replacement NP carbon boom. I set up again and the foot pedal that controls the mast movement in the track snapped off and the original sail has started to delaminate. I guess it is 30 years old after all.
Anyway, - its clear I need a new board/rig. I'd like a freeride board about 130l which I can uphaul if I have to and use to sail in Port Philip Bay. I think I just want to go quickly and relatively comfortably in 12-20knts and the usual bay chop. I have a limited budget ($1500 all up) so will have to buy 2nd hand gear. I'm 95kgs and would say a rusty intermediate sailor (used to sail in footstraps and occasionally waterstarted the Mistral back in the day). The equipment is so different to the 1980s, I don't really know how its going to feel. I think I'll need a 6m and 8m sail to begin with and the appropriate masts and fins.
I am about to make a purchase and thought I'd ask for advice. I have narrowed my choice down to a Thommen 1 FastX 127L (probably about 2010) or a Starboard Carve 135L (probably 2002). Both are in great condition. The Carve is much cheaper but a lot older. The Thommen looks a treat and is a bit narrower and probably harder to sail. I have read heaps of good stuff about the Carve but the Thommen is a bit unique and I haven't read a lot of independent stuff about it.
Any help with this decision would be appreciated.
Cheers
Hi I can only report on the carve, which is the board I progressed to planing in the straps. It is a great board and for the volume can take quite a bit of wind and chop, being long and narrow for today's standards. Being so old make sure there are no soft spots on deck.
Select to expand quotepowersloshin said..
Hi I can only report on the carve, which is the board I progressed to planing in the straps. It is a great board and for the volume can take quite a bit of wind and chop, being long and narrow for today's standards. Being so old make sure there are no soft spots on deck.
Thanks
I went through similar 18 months ago, but was less capable than you and is 72kg. I settled on a 08 Starboard Kode 122l which gives it 50kg capacity over my weight. The Kode is a good board to re-learn on as it was quite lightweight and modern shape. However, it was still a very steep learning curve for the first 9 months. I was frequently frustrated at failling off and hitting my shins / knees and half drowning. Being a epoxy wood board, I was also smashing the nose a bit.
If I had to do that over again, I should have gotten a slightly larger (maybe 130-140l) board, but with a tougher build and a softskin.
If there is no other option other than above for you, I would say the Carve 135 is the better option, however, I think that board shape is getting on a bit and a newer board will be a better long term keeper for lightwind once you have progressed (as my Kode 122 is for me now).
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's an aggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep making boards. I just love their work.
Hi Cluffy,
Great video.
It looks like a great flat water location. Where exactly is it ?
I like the board it looks fast.
Do you have thoughts on the relative merits or disadvantages of the Speedster, Rocket and perhaps the Thunder.
How would they go in the ocean amidst a fair bit of chop and swell ?
How would they go in downwind , relative to each other ?
Can we read any negatives into the fact Tabou no longer make the Thunder ?
Thanks for your feedback...
Cheers....
Thanks Cluffy
loved the video - really keen to being doing something like that. The Tabou ones look fun. Would you recommend relearning on the 145?
Hoadles
Select to expand quoteGrumpySmurf said..
I went through similar 18 months ago, but was less capable than you and is 72kg. I settled on a 08 Starboard Kode 122l which gives it 50kg capacity over my weight. The Kode is a good board to re-learn on as it was quite lightweight and modern shape. However, it was still a very steep learning curve for the first 9 months. I was frequently frustrated at failling off and hitting my shins / knees and half drowning. Being a epoxy wood board, I was also smashing the nose a bit.
If I had to do that over again, I should have gotten a slightly larger (maybe 130-140l) board, but with a tougher build and a softskin.
If there is no other option other than above for you, I would say the Carve 135 is the better option, however, I think that board shape is getting on a bit and a newer board will be a better long term keeper for lightwind once you have progressed (as my Kode 122 is for me now).Select to expand quoteCluffy said..
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's anaggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep making boards. I just love their work.Select to expand quoteCluffy said..
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's an aggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep makSelect to expand quoteCluffy said..
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's an aggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep making boards. I just love their work.
Thanks Grumpysmurf
i expect I'm going to find it harder than Cluffyloved makes it look. Your advice is noted. I hadn't thought of the soft deck benefits.
hoadles
Any freeride board from the last 8 years or so is going to be great. You shouldn't be worried about the larger volume, it's the shaping that matters. For choppy stuff, freerides are excellent. At 95kegs a 135 will be good for mid wind range, a great allrounder and a good place to start.
Select to expand quotearibenasher said..
Hi Cluffy,
Great video.
It looks like a great flat water location. Where exactly is it ?
I like the board it looks fast.
Do you have thoughts on the relative merits or disadvantages of the Speedster, Rocket and perhaps the Thunder.
How would they go in the ocean amidst a fair bit of chop and swell ?
How would they go in downwind , relative to each other ?
Can we read any negatives into the fact Tabou no longer make the Thunder ?
Thanks for your feedback...
Cheers....
The video is Swansea channel the area is known as the sand islands by locals. I actually made the movie about the sand island more than the speedster for facebook friends to show people one of my favourite spots. During the video you can see me chatting to Andrew haigh. This is more than just a social chat if you can hear the dialogue I'm actually getting the lowdown on how deep the narrow section was that day. This local knowledge is a must if you want to get into the flat water of the sand islands without faceplanting your head into a sandbar. Andrew knows the area as well as anyone and I added that bit as sort of a warning/info for people going there.
I haven't ridden a rocket but I've seen a few and heard a lot of positives about them. They seem to have a more freeride rocker line and slightly deeper concaves. I've seen a thunder up close and they actually have a fairly aggressive rocker line, very similar to the speedster. I think the funny outline of the thunder turned a lot of people off but the concept of the thunder was a good one and was sort of a precursor to the newer Jp magic ride/starboard atom concept in terms of early planning without big sails but the magic rides and atoms refined the concept a bit further. Tabou has added the rocket wide boards which is probably why the thunders were dropped.
As far as straight line speed goes, I reckon the speedster, some daylight and then the thunder with the rocket close behind. In open ocean I'll be on my 3S but failing that definitely the rocket for that stuff.
Select to expand quoteHoadles said..
Thanks Cluffy
loved the video - really keen to being doing something like that. The Tabou ones look fun. Would you recommend relearning on the 145?
Hoadles
Mate I don't often get wet on the speedster as the 79 width makes is very stable but I see you are 95 kg's so a bit more volume might be the go. Mine is 125 litres so maybe 135 to 145 would be about right. I find above 80cm's in width, gybing becomes a little bit more technical but not impossibly so. What I find does wonders when gybing my 79 and 90 wide is simply moving your backhand back along the boom, to at least the halfway point of the boom. I can't explain it exactly but it sort feels like you can "get inside" the big gear and get more rail pressure without having to over commit yourself to the turn. This is especially true of my JP SLW 90, the difference that simply sliding my back hand back makes to the gybing of that board is staggering. Instead of a forced grunt fest of a gybe trying to get rail pressure with the rig getting in the way it becomes a nice easy free carving turn.
Select to expand quotearibenasher said..
Hi Cluffy,
Great video.
It looks like a great flat water location. Where exactly is it ?
I like the board it looks fast.
Do you have thoughts on the relative merits or disadvantages of the Speedster, Rocket and perhaps the Thunder.
How would they go in the ocean amidst a fair bit of chop and swell ?
How would they go in downwind , relative to each other ?
Can we read any negatives into the fact Tabou no longer make the Thunder ?
Thanks for your feedback...
Cheers....
If you're sailing in ocean chop and swell, go with the rocket. It'll eat that crap up and sh!t out knots for breakfast 
where abouts in aus are you , if you can buy locally and pick it up because freight can be expensive
Go with weight plus 50litres.
I'm 75kg.
I have 4 boards.
86, 101, 118, 170.
And I sail in the bay.
The 170 is like a sidewalk. Too stable.
The 118 is great for learning tacks etc.
At my weight and your level, I would would get myself a 135l. At 95kg I suggest you get a 150l.
If you love it you will keep it as your big board.
Select to expand quoteCluffy said..
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's an aggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep making boards. I just love their work.
Love this, wish it was my backyard. Can't get water like that anywhere near home. How do you find the durability of the Tabou? I've dinged mine a couple of time and have no idea how. I've really wiped out on other boards and nothing. In terms of performance, I love mine, just not really impressed by durability.
Select to expand quoteSputnik11 said..Cluffy said..
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's an aggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep making boards. I just love their work.
Love this, wish it was my backyard. Can't get water like that anywhere near home. How do you find the durability of the Tabou? I've dinged mine a couple of time and have no idea how. I've really wiped out on other boards and nothing. In terms of performance, I love mine, just not really impressed by durability.
I recently did a few repairs to my 3S 106 although I have beaten the absolute crap out of it at every opportunity. I had a couple of cracks in the nose, one from the mast and one from my shin. The shin impact left leg hairs sticking out of the crack like some sort of weird moustache it was kind of funny in a painful way. The nose cracks were superficial and not taking water but I patched them anyway with carbon and micro balloon bog. The other crack was on top of the board just in front of the footstraps. It was a small longitudinal crack in the outer layer of glass which I can only assume was from to many bad jump landings. after sanding it out it turned to be the outer layer of glass only the divinycell wasn't cracked. My speedster 79 has no dings as it never gets jumped and it seems strong enough. BTW the 3S is the std and the speedster is the ltd version. I'm not sure if the ltd is stronger or lighter or both.
Select to expand quoteCluffy said..Sputnik11 said..Cluffy said..
Allow me to throw Tabou into the mix. A Speedster or a Rocket will give you great service. I have a speedster 79 ltd and it's my second favourite board after my 3S. It's very quick, I've had 29 knots out of it which is decent for 79 wide with a vegetable on it. My speedster is also very versatile regarding fin choice, when I run a Vmax 2.0 in it it's an aggressive tail skipping rocket ship but it calms right down with a freeride fin in it. Fabien Vollenweider of Tabou has a simple but awesome philosophy, it has to be fun. That definitely shows in tabou boards they are real grin makers. I have no vested interest in tabou other than hoping they keep making boards. I just love their work.
Love this, wish it was my backyard. Can't get water like that anywhere near home. How do you find the durability of the Tabou? I've dinged mine a couple of time and have no idea how. I've really wiped out on other boards and nothing. In terms of performance, I love mine, just not really impressed by durability.
I recently did a few repairs to my 3S 106 although I have beaten the absolute crap out of it at every opportunity. I had a couple of cracks in the nose, one from the mast and one from my shin. The shin impact left leg hairs sticking out of the crack like some sort of weird moustache it was kind of funny in a painful way. The nose cracks were superficial and not taking water but I patched them anyway with carbon and micro balloon bog. The other crack was on top of the board just in front of the footstraps. It was a small longitudinal crack in the outer layer of glass which I can only assume was from to many bad jump landings. after sanding it out it turned to be the outer layer of glass only the divinycell wasn't cracked. My speedster 79 has no dings as it never gets jumped and it seems strong enough. BTW the 3S is the std and the speedster is the ltd version. I'm not sure if the ltd is stronger or lighter or both.
My shins feel your pain.. I have bruises from hitting the mast a fortnight ago and got more last sail..
Boy they hurt!
Hi,
I just got back into it after many years also (20!). I bought a used 2005 120L JP X-Cite Ride epoxy sandwich board. I am 75kg or so and was a competent sailboarder back then.
I can't believe how light the board is compared to the stuff of the 80s and this is not even a very recent board.
Had my first sail on it in Canberra last Friday evening - my first short board sail for 20 years. It was really windy with peaks in the mid 20knts. I got smashed!
Had one "run" out to an island where I adjusted some stuff and then back in...... probably about 500m or more downwind lol. Let's just say that I quckly recalled what being catapulted was like. Luckily I could water start because that pretty much what I spent probably an hour doing in between catapults and swimming...
I made many mistakes before I even got onto the water. Lots of lessons re-learnt from years ago.
The board feels tiny and unstable but I can uphaul on it so it is not too small. We are in fresh water here also so things don't float quite as well here. Any smaller and I'd have a heap more trouble. I am convinced that this is a good sized and shaped board for me to get back into sailing. It just might take a bit longer to re-master it than I had thought.
I've met some great people already and have encouragement, advice and a great used rig to go with the board (thanks Pete!) that has already taken a beating and can't wait to get back out there.
It is awesome seeing guys like Hoadles getting back into it also. To anyone else reading this who is thinking of getting back into it, be encouraged and go for it.
Cheers,
James
