The wind here isn't super great in the summer, so I end up doing a lot of pumping on either foil or fin. Last week, I went out 3 times, on either a 9.5 cheetah or 9.0 IQ sail, and the second days at around 2 hours the inside of my elbows were toast. Just bending my arms sent them into cramping and wanting to lock up.
I usually drink quite a bit of electrolyte powder (Nuun) to avoid this, but I think that all the pumping I'm doing is contributing.
Having long harness lines seems to help me from using any arms when I'm already up and going, but getting planing is I think what's contributing the most to my cramps.
Any thoughts on how to alleviate this? Exercises I can do? I've been doing some forearm work to help, even some high weight negative curls in the gyms to help the tendons out, but these cramps keep chasing me. I seemed to have had a lot less of a problem in the windy fall/winter when I could be powered up on 5-8.0 and didn't really pump and could be out all day.
Creatine mono hydrate 5 gr before and after every session, you can work out harder (more endurance) and not get sore. But if you are sore the next day take it again that morning and soreness should go away in 1-2 hrs. Also may need Aleve or Tylenol to initially get rid of the pain so when you go out for the next session you are not in pain, avoid working out with a joint that is in pain, can get tendonitis and that can last months.
So 1) get rid of pain using oral pain killers, 2) then use creatine before and after every session, and 3) if you are going to do a session with a sore joint take a rapid release oral pain killer before so joint does not hurt before hitting the water, 4) avoid working out in pain at all cost!
The other option is to get a kit that does not require much or any pumping, I rarely pump the sail even in 8-10 knots. You can also try pumping the foil instead of the sail, that takes way less energy with better results, but I rarely do that as well. For foil pumping load up the sail and then rhythmically pump the board tail, 2-3 gets me up off the water, that is with an 8.0 sail and F1080 cm2 wing in 8-10 knots, I weight 86 kg.
Now when I pump the tail/foil I am on a Bolt 135 so the tail does not catch a lot of water like a wide tailed foil board, so I think that allows me to put more pressure on the foil, have only been on a wide foil board once and it felt very floaty SB Foil 147.
It's been discussed somewhere. Check a few things, wash boom grip, maybe sand it down, more downhaul, different mast with more flex, use your legs, more slippery board.
Good pumping technique uses legs not arms. Keep your arms straight and pump with your hips.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
Good pumping technique uses legs not arms. Keep your arms straight and pump with your hips.
This! Elbows aren't involved in efficient pumping.
Thanks guys. I'm going to down some creatine and focus on more legs. I've definitely been arms heavy and have noticed that when I use my legs more it seems to get going better.
Really happy to finally get pumping on either foil or fin, but clearly my technique needs improvement still.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Creatine mono hydrate 5 gr before and after every session, you can work out harder (more endurance) and not get sore. But if you are sore the next day take it again that morning and soreness should go away in 1-2 hrs. Also may need Aleve or Tylenol to initially get rid of the pain so when you go out for the next session you are not in pain, avoid working out with a joint that is in pain, can get tendonitis and that can last months.
So 1) get rid of pain using oral pain killers, 2) then use creatine before and after every session, and 3) if you are going to do a session with a sore joint take a rapid release oral pain killer before so joint does not hurt before hitting the water, 4) avoid working out in pain at all
This is just a terrible idea and very unhealthy.
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
The wind here isn't super great in the summer, so I end up doing a lot of pumping on either foil or fin. Last week, I went out 3 times, on either a 9.5 cheetah or 9.0 IQ sail, and the second days at around 2 hours the inside of my elbows were toast. Just bending my arms sent them into cramping and wanting to lock up.
I usually drink quite a bit of electrolyte powder (Nuun) to avoid this, but I think that all the pumping I'm doing is contributing.
Having long harness lines seems to help me from using any arms when I'm already up and going, but getting planing is I think what's contributing the most to my cramps.
Any thoughts on how to alleviate this? Exercises I can do? I've been doing some forearm work to help, even some high weight negative curls in the gyms to help the tendons out, but these cramps keep chasing me. I seemed to have had a lot less of a problem in the windy fall/winter when I could be powered up on 5-8.0 and didn't really pump and could be out all day.
The answer to this is more training. Forget Nuun, if you want a 'energy/electrolyte' drink then search google for torq nutrition. UK company but I believe there's an Aussie importer. Won't help with your problem but will make everything else feel better.
Just stretch your forearms 3 or4 times a day. Maybe get strap and place around your upper forearm to help with the pain until it stops.
and lots of masturbation to build up strength
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
The wind here isn't super great in the summer, so I end up doing a lot of pumping on either foil or fin. Last week, I went out 3 times, on either a 9.5 cheetah or 9.0 IQ sail, and the second days at around 2 hours the inside of my elbows were toast. Just bending my arms sent them into cramping and wanting to lock up.
I usually drink quite a bit of electrolyte powder (Nuun) to avoid this, but I think that all the pumping I'm doing is contributing.
Having long harness lines seems to help me from using any arms when I'm already up and going, but getting planing is I think what's contributing the most to my cramps.
Any thoughts on how to alleviate this? Exercises I can do? I've been doing some forearm work to help, even some high weight negative curls in the gyms to help the tendons out, but these cramps keep chasing me. I seemed to have had a lot less of a problem in the windy fall/winter when I could be powered up on 5-8.0 and didn't really pump and could be out all day.
Can you get it going hooked in and bouncing the board? I'm a weakling and prefer that as I don't have to use my arms..
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..aeroegnr said..
The wind here isn't super great in the summer, so I end up doing a lot of pumping on either foil or fin. Last week, I went out 3 times, on either a 9.5 cheetah or 9.0 IQ sail, and the second days at around 2 hours the inside of my elbows were toast. Just bending my arms sent them into cramping and wanting to lock up.
I usually drink quite a bit of electrolyte powder (Nuun) to avoid this, but I think that all the pumping I'm doing is contributing.
Having long harness lines seems to help me from using any arms when I'm already up and going, but getting planing is I think what's contributing the most to my cramps.
Any thoughts on how to alleviate this? Exercises I can do? I've been doing some forearm work to help, even some high weight negative curls in the gyms to help the tendons out, but these cramps keep chasing me. I seemed to have had a lot less of a problem in the windy fall/winter when I could be powered up on 5-8.0 and didn't really pump and could be out all day.
Can you get it going hooked in and bouncing the board? I'm a weakling and prefer that as I don't have to use my arms..
Not effective for foiling AT ALL. Only really useful on boards which are passive planing in well powered conditions.
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..
Can you get it going hooked in and bouncing the board? I'm a weakling and prefer that as I don't have to use my arms..
I've never had much effect from pumping strapped in. Try to get as much hip movement as possible, and as much pressure per pump on the back foot as I can without upsetting the board sailing angle. Front foot trying to push the board forward/keep it downwind, back foot giving it power. And I'm testing the "low as I can go" with sometimes the wind meter reading 4-8kts and getting foiling.
But the mix of arms and hips here, and likely not using my hips enough once harnessed, is likely a problem.
Using LOTS of elbow bend is actually vital at times for effective pumping. The top guys often use heaps of elbow bend, which is one reason they are the top guys.
Check out RSX champ Dorian Van Rijsselberghe at 14 and 30 seconds (very light air) and 2m 18s etc here ;
A magnesium tablet works very quickly to reduce cramping. I am pretty sure that is what they give footballers who get cramps during a game. The magnesium relaxes the muscles so only take it after you are getting the cramps. It does work!
A great side effect from wingfoiling with no harness has made me stronger and I can pump like a demon now when I use a slapper I mean windsurf that could've been taken the wrong way lol
Select to expand quoteBen1973 said..Sandman1221 said..
Creatine mono hydrate 5 gr before and after every session, you can work out harder (more endurance) and not get sore. But if you are sore the next day take it again that morning and soreness should go away in 1-2 hrs. Also may need Aleve or Tylenol to initially get rid of the pain so when you go out for the next session you are not in pain, avoid working out with a joint that is in pain, can get tendonitis and that can last months.
So 1) get rid of pain using oral pain killers, 2) then use creatine before and after every session, and 3) if you are going to do a session with a sore joint take a rapid release oral pain killer before so joint does not hurt before hitting the water, 4) avoid working out in pain at all
This is just a terrible idea and very unhealthy.
And why?, we make creatine naturally in our bodies, but as we get older we make less, so supplementation with creatine helps a lot if you are doing high exertion activities.
OverviewCreatine is an amino acid located mostly in your body's muscles as well as in the brain. Most people get creatine through seafood and red meat - though at levels far below those found in synthetically made creatine supplements. The body's liver, pancreas and kidneys also can make about 1 gram of creatine per day.Your body stores creatine as phosphocreatine primarily in your muscles, where it's used for energy. As a result, people take creatine orally to improve athletic performance and increase muscle mass.People also use oral creatine to treat certain brain disorders, neuromuscular conditions, congestive heart failure and other conditions. Topical creatine might be used to treat aging skin.EvidenceResearch on creatine use for specific activities and conditions shows:Strength, muscle size and performance. Oral creatine use might allow an athlete to do more work during reps or sprints, leading to greater gains in strength, muscle mass and performance. Creatine is often used by athletes involved in high-intensity intermittent activities that require a rapid recovery during training and competition.Injury prevention. Oral creatine might reduce the frequency of dehydration, muscle cramping, and injuries to the muscles, bones, ligaments, tendons and nerves.Rare creatine-metabolizing syndromes. In children with the certain creatine deficiency syndromes, oral creatine supplements might improve some symptoms.Cognition and brain health. Creatine supplementation might improve performance during cognitive tasks, especially in older adults.Sarcopenia and bone health. Creatine supplementation might help counteract age-related declines in skeletal muscle and bone mineral density.Heart failure. There isn't enough evidence to recommend use of oral creatine as a heart failure treatment.Skin aging. Early research suggests that a cream containing creatine and other ingredients applied to the face every day for six weeks might reduce skin sag and wrinkles in men. Another study suggests that a cream containing creatine and folic acid improves sun damage and reduces wrinkles.People who have low levels of creatine - such as vegetarians - appear to benefit most from creatine supplements.Our take
www.mayoclinic.org/-/media/kcms/gbs/patient-consumer/images/2017/08/29/19/22/stoplight-green.svg
Generally safeCreatine might benefit athletes who need short bursts of speed or increased muscle strength, such as sprinters, weight lifters and team sport athletes.While taking creatine might not help all athletes, evidence suggests that it generally won't hurt if taken as directed.Although an older case study suggested that creatine might worsen kidney dysfunction in people with kidney disorders, creatine doesn't appear to affect kidney function in healthy people.Safety and side effectsWhen used orally at appropriate doses, creatine is likely safe to take for up to five years. As with any dietary supplement, it's important to choose a product that follows recommended manufacturing practices and subscribes to third-party testing to ensure the product's quality.Creatine can cause:Weight gain, generally as lean body massCreatine might be unsafe for people with preexisting kidney problems. However, further research is needed.InteractionsPossible interactions include:Caffeine. Combining caffeine with creatine might decrease the efficacy of creatine. Use of creatine with a daily amount of caffeine greater than 300 milligrams might also worsen the progression of Parkinson's disease. Further research is needed.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
It's been discussed somewhere. Check a few things, wash boom grip, maybe sand it down, more downhaul, different mast with more flex, use your legs, more slippery board.
I recommend against sanding the boom grip. I tried that on one side of a slippery boom and it only got more slippery
One of the upsides to bending the arms may be that when you extend them after the instroke, you can reduce the grip strength you're using for a second or so. Some research into other areas of sailing indicates that this brief easing may increase blood flow momentarily and therefore (if I remember correctly) allow the blood to take away the lactic acid etc more efficiently.
I don't think I explained well. YES the elbow bends, but the strength has to come from the back not the arms.
I spent around a decade as a nationally competitive archer, it's the exact same muscle group. Probably the same for rowing as well but I was only ever a recreational rower.
That whole biomechanic goes to hell if you don't keep the wrist inline with the forearm while generating power. Soon as you've got bends there you'll fatigue your arms very quickly.
For pumping the foil, like I said need to load up the sail and IF you have enough board speed/ wind when you start to pump the tail/foil the board will lift right off the water after 1-2 pumps, if the board is not lifting in 1-2 pumps then you do not have enough wind pressure on the sail. Was just doing it today in 5-8 knots, when the 8 knot gust came got right up pumping the tail, the board will feel bouncy like you are on a trampoline when you are pumping the tail with enough wind. Too little wind and the board does not bounce.
