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Foot strap and foot position question

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Created by sharkbiscuit > 9 months ago, 17 Jan 2009
sharkbiscuit
820 posts
17 Jan 2009 9:39PM
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Hi all. I've only been sailing for 6 months now. I do 95% of my sailing at beaches in
chop. I have just cracked the harness. I can beach start and am polishing my water
starts. I have a question about my foot straps and their positions.

Below is a link to a picture of my board (Bic Techno2 148L) and my current foot positions
I have hand drawn (excuse my poor art work):

www.seabreeze.com.au/Media/View/2219526/Windsurfing/Foot-positioning/

Right after a beach/water start, I'm in the back footstrap very quickly. I really like
having my foot there, as I can carve the board really easy and I have control in the middle
of high jumps when going airborne. However, I can't crack the front strap. If I put my foot
in the front strap, I immediately carve upwind, lose speed and stale. I've tried bearing away
the sail, but no cigar. I need arms that are 10cm longer by the looks.

Just a few questions:

Is my footstrap positions ok for sea sailing ? (ie: should I put the two back straps
where they are ment to be and just deal with it ?)

If I keep this positioning, will the front foot strap eventually come ?, or is there a tip
that will get me into that front strap ?

I'm 65kg. 176cm high, my sail is a 5.2metre crossover sail, and I am using a 33cm
freeride fin.

Thanks for any advice :). Ja

Bondalucci
VIC, 1579 posts
18 Jan 2009 12:30AM
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Shark biscuit, IMHO I reckon for 68 kilo's a 148 ltr board is pretty big. Looking at the picture, the front strap is set well outboard and doesn't look like it can be set further inboard. For people learning footstraps, more inboard is easier in the initial stages as it doesn't upset the sideways balance of the board as much if you put too much weight on it, or fumble a bit as you search to get your foot in.

Don't despair though. Yours is a good board and you will get the hang of it.
I'd suggest this drill:
While sailing along with the back foot in the strap, exert mast foot pressure down onto the board (front hand weighting down through the boom), practise lifting your front foot off the deck for a while (or toes lightly touching the deck).

When you can do this (and it wont be too hard) you'll be able to move your front foot into the strap at will, without overweighting it. From there you'll find life sailing in both straps is easier, faster and way more fun.

** Make sure you practise this on both tacks

Good luck, let us know how you progress!

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
17 Jan 2009 10:47PM
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Excellent advice from Bondy,

I might just add:

When going for the front strap, remember to push down with the toes on your back foot.

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
17 Jan 2009 11:58PM
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my advice would be forget the back strap and concentrate on getting into the front strap first with your back foot infront of the rear strap.

then as you feel comfortable slide your back foot back and into the straps.

i'm guessing but going into the rear strap first could be upsetting your stance making you lean back and not "out".

is your back leg really bent also?

NotWal
QLD, 7430 posts
17 Jan 2009 11:58PM
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Also, as soon as you have your front foot in the strap, or even before you do that, hook in to get your weight hanging from the booms.

sharkbiscuit
820 posts
18 Jan 2009 1:44AM
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Bondalucci said...

Shark biscuit, IMHO I reckon for 68 kilo's a 148 ltr board is pretty big.


Yeah. Everybody tells me tha :). However, back in Sept when I brought it, I didn't have
the experience for anything smaller.

Bondalucci said...
Looking at the picture, the front strap is set well outboard and doesn't look like it can be set further inboard. For people learning footstraps, more inboard is easier in the initial stages as it doesn't upset the sideways balance of the board as much if you put too much weight on it, or fumble a bit as you search to get your foot in.


Yes... I do a fair bit of fumbling with the front foot and that sometimes causes the board to
swing back and forth (it's not too bad). I used to fumble the back foot too (and would often
cause a lose of control), but through time, the back foot knows where to go and I don't have
to move it.

Bondalucci said...
While sailing along with the back foot in the strap, exert mast foot pressure down onto the board (front hand weighting down through the boom), practise lifting your front foot off the deck for a while (or toes lightly touching the deck).


Ok. I'll give that a crack :)

Bondalucci said...
When you can do this (and it wont be too hard) you'll be able to move your front foot into the strap at will, without overweighting it. From there you'll find life sailing in both straps is easier, faster and way more fun.

]** Make sure you practise this on both tacks
Good luck, let us know how you progress!


:)

nebbian said...
When going for the front strap, remember to push down with the toes on your back foot.


Ok :)

I've learnt to control the board by pressing down the back foot when jumping.
I'll try to apply the same thing when going into the front strap.

Note: I was reading one of Guy Gribbs articles (I can't remember which one it was),
but I remember him writing about where the force directions are in the straps.
He said the back foot should be pushing down, and the front foot should be
pulling up. Do you guys find this the case when you are sailing ?


Gestalt said...
my advice would be forget the back strap and concentrate on getting into the front strap first with your back foot infront of the rear strap.

then as you feel comfortable slide your back foot back and into the straps.

i'm guessing but going into the rear strap first could be upsetting your stance making you lean back and not "out".

is your back leg really bent also?


Ok. I'll give that a go as well. This is pulling down on the boom so I'm
not putting any pressure on the board with my front foot ?. That is a good
theory you have about my lean. back leg bent ?, yes, but I am not sure how
much. I would say lots (especially if it's blowing hard).

NotWal said...[/b]
..as soon as you have your front foot in the strap, or even before you do that, hook in to get your weight hanging from the booms.


Ok.

Thanks for your advice all :). The common theme is getting the weigth off my front foot.
I'll definately give it a go when i'm down at the beach next.

I should really practice this stuff on flat water. The problem is that my closest flat water is
125km away. So the beach is the best I can do. When I get going, I have to contend with
a 0.5 - 1.0 metre chop every 3 seconds or so (I am still in "hang the F* on" mode when I'm
air borne hehehe ;).. and so it's a slow process experimenting. .. anyway, I'm dealing with
it :)

I'll let you know how those tips go :). Cheers Ja

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
18 Jan 2009 10:34AM
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sharkbiscuit said...

Bondalucci said...

Shark biscuit, IMHO I reckon for 68 kilo's a 148 ltr board is pretty big.


Ok.

Thanks for your advice all :). The common theme is getting the weigth off my front foot.
I'll definately give it a go when i'm down at the beach next.




hi biscuit.... it's hard to tell without watching you sail, but i don't think getting the weight off your front foot is the problem

i think you may be trying to get into the back straps to much. having a really bent back leg with your bum hanging over the back of the board is a sign of this.

i asked that question because it is a sure sign of stance problems. especially when it gets very windy. it is also a sign that the board is way to wide for you in the said wind strength. it happens to formula sailors when they are well powered.

what you need to do is forget about the rear strap for the time being. focus on getting into the front strap and when you feel comfortable you can start to go for the rear strap. plus don't forget. you are leaning out and not back.......

going for the straps too early in your learning curve can be "bad" for technique. you should only be putting your feet in the straps when your feet are postioned beside the straps.

sail along for a while with only your front foot in. you will be going half speed but you can work on leaning out and stance outcomes. (moving the front strap inboard is a must at this time of your learning) once you get your stance sorted my money is that when you look down you will notice your rear foot just in front of the back strap. once this is the case. place your back foot into the strap also and watch your speed double.

sharkbiscuit
820 posts
18 Jan 2009 5:25PM
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Thanks Gestalt. I'll give it a crack :). I'm sailing next weekend (back at work -- too
difficult to get to the beach during the week). I'll let you know how I go :)

Ja

windwarning
VIC, 600 posts
18 Jan 2009 10:32PM
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they are like the most outward foot straps i have ever seen looks more like a speed board. i would not be able to sail that as well.

sharkbiscuit
820 posts
18 Jan 2009 9:11PM
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windwarning said...

they are like the most outward foot straps i have ever seen looks more like a speed board. i would not be able to sail that as well.


Hi WW. Yeah, thats was one of my doubts. The front straps are outward, and the back strap
is inward. Not sure if this would work. I read on here a few weeks ago that people put their
straps inward for control (the sea), so that's why I put my back strap in the middle (there are
screw holes for this possy).. but I wasn't sure if this was practical (you would think so, as
as BIC have provided the screw holes). However, another member PM'ed me and said that
these positions are ok and it's just a matter of knack. My board is a freeride.

windwarning
VIC, 600 posts
18 Jan 2009 11:38PM
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sharkbiscuit said...

windwarning said...

they are like the most outward foot straps i have ever seen looks more like a speed board. i would not be able to sail that as well.


Hi WW. Yeah, thats was one of my doubts. The front straps are outward, and the back strap
is inward. Not sure if this would work. I read on here a few weeks ago that people put their
straps inward for control (the sea), so that's why I put my back strap in the middle (there are
screw holes for this possy).. but I wasn't sure if this was practical (you would think so, as
as BIC have provided the screw holes). However, another member PM'ed me and said that
these positions are ok and it's just a matter of knack. My board is a freeride.



How long have you had the board for? because it does not seem to be designed right. You should have some screw holes to put your front foot strap more inward. But going by your pic i cant see any. I had the same problem with my jp excite then i moved my back one in the middle and my front ones as far in as possible. I have about 3 different positions on my front foot straps i can put them in. I can set mine so far inwards that it looks like a big wave board. It feels so nice to sail now with the straps inward and a single foot strap at the back. If it was me I would take it to ya local windsurf shop or board builder and see if they can mount some foot staps more inward for you.

DavMen
NSW, 1508 posts
19 Jan 2009 12:01AM
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Bic techno's (the 150l ones) have always supplied extra holes for a centre rear strap, some times these are covered by the deck pad but nevertheless they are there.

The main purpose for the centre rear footstrap is for first learnes of footstraps/harness and is only meant to be a learning position, its not really an inboard/out board set up option for that board.

The user will never get the best out of his board and progress until the rear strap is set to the proper outboard position and then it will all start to feel much more balanced.

windwarning
VIC, 600 posts
19 Jan 2009 12:24AM
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want balance just get longer harness lines and a seat harness. with the single foot strap and front straps inward it will be sweat as

ddevil
WA, 43 posts
18 Jan 2009 10:32PM
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Hey I learned on the same board (older version) and I still have it .

Do as the other guys before me suggested: 1) hook in (to be able to unweight the front foot), 2) front foot in and then back foot in last.

Also as a beginner I found it easier to get into the front strap only after the board was fully planing (unfortunately the Techno has only outward footrap positions at the front). Sometimes I used to put my front in too early when the board was only half-planing resulting in the immediatly going upwind etc.

If you go into the front strap early make sure you put all the weight onto the toes in order to avoid pushing the rail down.

And don't waterstart with feet in the straps. On smaller boards this may be ok, but on this size of board it's bad technique IMHO. I have actually seen somebody doing it and it looks very awkward.

And don't use two back straps until your comfortable getting in front+back stap using the centre back strap. Outer back straps are more difficult to get in.

Hope this helps.

sharkbiscuit
820 posts
28 Feb 2009 5:47PM
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Hi Guys. Well for the past 6 weeks, I have slowly progressed to the foot straps. Today I managed to go into both foot straps. I can also do it in the common order: front strap, harness, rear strap (however, the rear strap is still in the middle position -- the outer ones will come in time). Thanks for your tips :)

Ja

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
28 Feb 2009 6:58PM
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WOOHOOO!!!!

Well done sharky, now the sky's the limit!


Haircut
QLD, 6490 posts
28 Feb 2009 8:36PM
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and catapults, here we come

mineral1
WA, 4564 posts
28 Feb 2009 7:41PM
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sharkbiscuit said...

Hi Guys. Well for the past 6 weeks, I have slowly progressed to the foot straps. Today I managed to go into both foot straps. I can also do it in the common order: front strap, harness, rear strap (however, the rear strap is still in the middle position -- the outer ones will come in time). Thanks for your tips :)

Ja



Can feel your stoke,s'all good fun regardless of how many get offs and over the handle bars you get.

Fall off boy
25 posts
28 Feb 2009 11:25PM
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i don't bother useing footstraps. I just get a nail gun and bail my foot to the deck of the board.

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
1 Mar 2009 1:40AM
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Haircut said...

and catapults, here we come


How much of that do you reckon is technique vs having the correct gear/gear setup correctly, which is a skill in itself?

For catapult free sailing I'd recommend:
+ Downhaul > Front foot > Back foot > Harness.

Then move to:
Harness > Front foot > Back foot.

... but then you'll miss out on the thrill of a completely overpowered, high speed, knockout-punch, still hooked in and twisted while underwater catapult.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
1 Mar 2009 12:00AM
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Fall off boy said...

i don't bother useing footstraps. I just get a nail gun and bail my foot to the deck of the board.


Closely followed by learning to waterstart switch-stance

sharkbiscuit
820 posts
1 Mar 2009 8:51AM
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Thanks guys. Well, next is the Gybe and Carve gybe.. and then it's on to thinking about getting a board better suited to surf. Welcome to Autumn :)

Ja

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
1 Mar 2009 11:13AM
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evlPanda said...


Then move to:
Harness > Front foot > Back foot.


This is the sequence I use Panda, but I've been told I should be putting my back foot in first?!? I've tried, but it's too awkward. Also, I've changed front hand grip to palm up (makes a huge difference! albeit foreign to start with), and underarm grab on gybes (this one's doubled my percentage of actual 'dry' gybes).

Keep at it sharkbiscuit, progress = fun times!

sailpilot
QLD, 785 posts
1 Mar 2009 10:41PM
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Here's a link to Guy Cribbs technique page, there's a section on footstraps that might help, plenty of other good stuff too

www.guycribb.com/windsurfing_technique_holiday_DVD_0076v01.htm

oldie
VIC, 356 posts
4 Mar 2009 9:47PM
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So I read Cribbie with Robby Swift article (good stuff) but there and a few things to mention-

Cribbie says your harness hook should start a few inches below your belly button to get lines pointing properly downwards and he spends a lot of time dragging his harness down. Seat harness seems pretty obvious solution?

Back strap on the mid line is so wave sailors can stay in the straps and carve the board both ways with heel or toe. I see beginners planing at half speed because they think this has goota be the right setup. Remembering that formula sailors call the middle strap the "chicken strap" , more control but less speed.

oldie
VIC, 356 posts
4 Mar 2009 9:48PM
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PS Beer gut does seem to locate waist harness about right...

elray
VIC, 6 posts
4 Mar 2009 10:41PM
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im still a newbie 12months sailling im going harness, back foot, start planning then front foot. reading this thread it seems im doing this wrong any idears is my setup wrong. i still do alot of cartweels if i dont get back foot in.

Ellobuddha
NSW, 625 posts
5 Mar 2009 1:34AM
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I reckon back strap first, then front as you start planing. I used to do front foot in first until a mate picked it up. Since I started backfoot in, I have a lot less catapults, early in the run as you are far more locked in.

Its amazing how much more speed you can get out of a board with the straps in the furthest outboard position. Though I have had a few "moments" when my heel has done a "Fred Flintstone foot brakes" on me at speed in chop.

FlickySpinny
WA, 657 posts
5 Mar 2009 10:34AM
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If overpowered, going for the back strap might not be a problem. However, in light / marginal conditions, going for the back strap is going to place pressure on the tail of the board as you got for the front strap. This in turn is going sink the tail and make planing difficult.

I always go front foot first, but I can't remember how I learnt.

Wet Willy
TAS, 2317 posts
5 Mar 2009 2:45PM
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Hope you don't get confused by all this advice. Try one thing at a time, visualize what you are going to do, and when you stuff up, stop and run thru it in your mind, to figure out what went wrong.

oldie
VIC, 356 posts
6 Mar 2009 1:16AM
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sharky said
Note: I was reading one of Guy Gribbs articles (I can't remember which one it was),
but I remember him writing about where the force directions are in the straps.
He said the back foot should be pushing down, and the front foot should be
pulling up.

I read more than sail. I think he was telling how to point a few degrees more when going upwind. Wave sailing (up and down the waveface without moving out of the straps) is supposed to need lots of front foot pressure to keep the rail engaged. Back foot to tilt the board. But that is pretty advanced stuff. To get enough speed to gybe without a wave to help back foot should definitely be in the outboard position.



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"Foot strap and foot position question" started by sharkbiscuit