Hi All , I recently bought a couple of hardly used fins for my older single fin fsw boards 95L & 85L and they felt really good compared to the others I have collected over the years.so my question is what makes a good fin ? Is it flex , material, shape etc.
I understand that straight fin is generally for free ride and more sweep back for wave but I a few similar size in length fsw wave fins but have different thickness and widths and wondered have that effects the feel ?
Would have liked to add the pictures of my fins so people could comment but I can't for some reason !
define, "felt really good".
Fins have several properties.
Speed. stability. upwind performance, spin out resistance and to a lesser extent maneuverability,
a fin with great upwind performance will probably be a bit slower downwind. a really fast downwind fin, will probably have poor upwind performance.
I believe foil shape and thickness are a huge factor. Stiffness is another and optimum stiffness characteristics depends on the rake.
Lay up determines how the fin flexes under load, does it twist or bend. If a fin is too upright and twists it can be uncontrollable, as the angle of attack increases under load. this is positive feedback, the more the angle of attack increases the more load there is so the more flex, the more load, until the max angle of attack is reached and the fin stalls, and load vanishes, fin straightens and the process starts over.
So yes fins are complex, I guess what most of us want is a good all round fin. I can't comment on that as I mainly make weed fins. They need to be very stiff. But I guess if you aren't copping with weed you want a fin around 15deg rake with chord to thickness ratio around 9% no idea about twist or flex
All of those plus what board, sail combo your using plus everyone has there own idea of what feel good.
Speaking of fins, where can I get a delta fin to sail the shallow weedy waters at Paradise Beach, Sanctuary Point, NSW?
The 30cm weed fin I bought for just that spot hits the bottom of the bay from time to time.
I can relate to fins that feel good. I reckon it takes about 100m planing to know. Can't say I know exactly what it is. I've had plastic fins, g10 fins, carbon fins and glass fins that were epic and the same that were very disappointing. There are certain materials I think suit different disciplines but not sure that's the defining factor..
It's impossible to know what foil has been used so I look at shape a lot. I prefer certain outlines and flex for different uses and buy based on that.
maybe it's the philosophy of the designer. For whatever reason once I find a fin that works I tend to find that the brands works across the fin range and vice versa if a fin doesn't work for me then usually the brand doesn't work. So I tend to stick with brands because typically there is something in the dna.
its personal though. Some brands that are winning pwa podiums I relegate to the bottom of the bucket as I just don't like them yet they are clearly great fins
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..decrepit said..
you could PM fangy
+2
fangy fin good.
Great replies , hard to say what actually was good about my new fins other that it just felt really comfortable blasting around in choppy conditions.
The fins are black project wave , however for a wave fin they aren't very swept back thick. They look more like a free ride fin.
I understand carbon, plastic and glass fibre fin's but what is the difference with g10 as that looks like glass fibre still ?
If blasting it is likely to be that lack of rake and the stiffness.
I had a FSW that was a smidge stiff of a wave and a flexier fin transformed it into my best FSW ever. So yeah depends what criteria.
FSW boards are so great if you have a selection of fins and even better the thruster setup. eg I used 34cm and 7.5m for blasting, just planing in 16-17kn. Same board, 12.5 sides and flexy 23cm single, down to maxxed 5m in 30kn plus wavesailing. Not just barely doable, I mean comfortable and both session just magic. Same board.
All due to fins.
Select to expand quoteWindsurfing.tv have just recently done a podcast about fins.
>
Wasnt that only wave stuff? I didn't have time to watch it but if it covers singles too i may watch
Th 3 fins I use on my 94l Exocet Cross. I think they are all good fins.
Left to right:
OE Exocet 30cm G10. As you can see its raked, wide chord at the base. What you cant see is its relatively thick.
The rake means easy gybing on swells. The wide chord means more area to push against, which is handy when landing small jumps/chop hops as it doesnt spin out. Thickness means more slow speed power for early planing, plus the previous sentence.
I use it with 6.5m 2 cam Lion more usually 6m Cheetah no cam freeride. Mostly the 6m as the 6.5m is more for freerace.
The downsides is its not very fast due to large area and thickness.
Select Freeslam 29cm. Its thinner than the Exocet, so feels more slippery through the water and faster. Same 6.5 & 6m sails, but on flat water. Goes upwind well.
Black Project 26cm freewave. Its sort of halfway in design of the other 2. 4.5m & 5.2m B&J and choppy blasting. Fast enough, no vices.
I've also got a Angulo 24cm wave fin in power box, but rarely use it. Only if totally maxed out with 4.5m, but it loses grip going over chop/swell at speed.
They are all different fins, all good.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
G10 is fiberglass that's compressed and heated during curing.
Thanks, so I guess this turns out stiffer / better than a just fibreglass fin or are they all g10 apart from carbon and plastic fins ?
Select to expand quoteSurfing Uk said..
so my question is what makes a good fin ? Is it flex , material, shape etc.
All of the above, and more (including profile, twist, manufacturing accuracy) - and then, it depends on skill levels and what you use it for. Some designers understand the interplay of the different factors better than others. Fins that come with boards are sometimes limited by cost considerations, and getting a better fin can be an easy and cheap upgrade. But even the best fins won't work well if the size is wrong. The differences in performance get rather big when you look at weed fins, which get a bit more complicated than straighter fins. There are a couple of fin designers out there that make outstanding fins, based on a very deep technical understanding that others just can't match.
Typically, finding great fins has required some testing and/or spending, and sticking to the same brand once you find something great. But now, with lots of windsurfers aging out or switching to winging, there are tons of hardly used fins available really cheap (we just listed about 20 just from a garage cleanup). So buying a few used fins cheap just based on looks, brand, and curiosity has become a good strategy. You may end up with fins that really improve your fun on the water.
These are the fins I currently have for my 85/95 L single fin fsw , it's the black project ones (24/26cm wave) I found to work really well compared to some older drake ones I had.
The other 4 are similar sizes 21-22cm but completely different in shape and have only used the Mfc and stix but now keen to experiment with the other two after feeling the benefits of the black project ones etc.
Is the general guide with the fin size 5 x sail size in length ? I used to use that mfc 21cm with 3.7 - 5.3 and seemed to make it work most the time.
When I first joined this site many years ago, it was a which fin question. The best answer was...buy as many fins as you can and keep the ones you like. Rules don't apply to fins.
Select to expand quoteSurfing Uk said..Gestalt said..
G10 is fiberglass that's compressed and heated during curing.
Thanks, so I guess this turns out stiffer / better than a just fibreglass fin or are they all g10 apart from carbon and plastic fins ?
Fiberglass and g10 are same material. g10 is stiffer yes but I wouldn't say better. It depends on what you want the fin to do.
G10 is stronger, it's made under high compression, (I think 10 tons/square inch, and possibly from a higher quality glass,) there's more fibers and less resin, per size.
Those fins on the right (and far left) are too small unless for wave riding type use and you're right on it with less back foot pressure. It's unsurprising that you found the more lifty / stiffer / higher aspect ratio Black Project to be good for powered B&J. An 85-90 single fin FSW typically comes with a 27-28cm upright fin that is almost like a freeride fin with a bit more rake.
The Select fin, being quite flexy, would be super good in your board if it had little side fins.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
If blasting it is likely to be that lack of rake and the stiffness.
I had a FSW that was a smidge stiff of a wave and a flexier fin transformed it into my best FSW ever. So yeah depends what criteria.
FSW boards are so great if you have a selection of fins and even better the thruster setup. eg I used 34cm and 7.5m for blasting, just planing in 16-17kn. Same board, 12.5 sides and flexy 23cm single, down to maxxed 5m in 30kn plus wavesailing. Not just barely doable, I mean comfortable and both session just magic. Same board.
All due to fins.
This is good stuff.
I have a Tabou 3s+ with a thruster setup. This works great in waves and for smaller sails (up to 6.3).
For lighter wind conditions and blasting I am looking for a single fin.
Which 34 cm fin did you use and which sail? and if you dont mind me asking what is your weight 
?
7.5 seems big! I was thinking about adding a Gun Torro 6.9 to the 6.3 I already have. Love that sail and it is a good combo with the 3s+.
Should give a decent bump in the low end.
The 3s classic has a MFC HF Ride Carbon 34 cm. Seems like an easy choice. What do you think?
^^^ At that time I was 105kg, board 122L FSW.
7.5m Gator and the 34cm was a MFC Liquid Pro. I also used a 29cm Select freeride with the 12.5 sidies and it was slower but more control. But nice to leave the sidies in after the freeride session and just change centre fin to 24cm Dyno fin and wave sail for the 30kn session. Very alrounder setup :)
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
When I first joined this site many years ago, it was a which fin question. The best answer was...buy as many fins as you can and keep the ones you like. Rules don't apply to fins.
I've seen loads of rules for fins.
5 * sail size + 4cm for larger boards.
5 * sail size for smaller boards.
1/2 the width of the board for slalom/freerace. I've heard Ben Proffit and Nico Prien and/or Nils Bach mention that, although I dont think they actually believe it.
None take into account the OFO measurement, which is where your feet go and has a big influence.
Or if you have your straps inboard or outboard, or single strap, which changes the leverage on the fin so would affect size.
Or the sails used. My older Ezzy sails didnt have so much twist as the latest, or most fast freeride sails and dont make the board fly as much, so needed a slightly larger fin.
Or planing flat. I've found the shorter planing flat of my AV Volari (119/71cm) compared to the Exocet S3 (110l/67cm) means I can use a 37cm fin for 7.5m, The Exocet needed 40cm. The boards have the same OFO. I also use the 37cm fin for 6.5m as well now. Select s-max.
If you have a slalom board and going over 30 knots you dont want a fin as large as I use for cruising along at 25 knots like me. When I've been on 6.5m I use 36cm/37cm the slalomers on 7.0m or larger are on 34cm.
Then for FSW add into do you ride decent waves, onshore waves, flatter choppy water.
I think if you dont have any fins for a board, really dont know what to get, pick a rule and have a stab.
So my advice to the OP is the same as yours. Use the one you like keep another as a spare, clog up your garage storage drawers with the others.
Best rule is google what it came with.
If its slalom or freeride then its a size too big so as to get good reviews re planing threshold
If it is wave the fin set is one size too small so its radical
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Best rule is google what it came with.
If its slalom or freeride then its a size too big so as to get good reviews re planing threshold
If it is wave the fin set is one size too small so its radical
I'd never thought of it that way, but now you mention it, that pretty much rings true for every new board I've seen that came with a fin.
Great reply's everyone, I've definitely been using to smaller fins for a very long time ! Interesting reading the comments about tri fins and they seem to have a better range but that's another thread if ever get rid of my much loved rrd 2008 fsw !
