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Downhaul tension and batton position

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Created by Daneli > 9 months ago, 3 Jan 2009
Daneli
QLD, 1538 posts
3 Jan 2009 9:23PM
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Some of my lower sail battons (particularly the one immediately above the boom) seem to be extending part way past the sail side edge of the mast when my Gastra 7m sail is fully rigged. I have a similar problem but not quite as bad with a smaller 6.0m sail. This has the effect of needing a good flick on the boom to have it "pop" over to the leeward side of the mast once changing tack. Is this correct rigging? If not how do I get them in the correct position. Is it by more downhaul/mast bend. I seem to have the sail down hauled as far as I physically can. Any further would require additional mechanical assistance other than the pully system provided. I believe I am using the correct mast length although I do use a mast step extension for the 7.0m sail. Any suggestions? I fear I am going to break something particularly next time it blows.

Mark _australia
WA, 23464 posts
3 Jan 2009 8:35PM
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More downhaul or more outhaul.... probably the former.

What model sail?

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
3 Jan 2009 10:39PM
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Could be perfectly normal, you'd need another owner of same sail to confirm.
My old KA's rig like this, and for minimum outhaul on my newer KA Koyotes I'll have the batten above boom about half way across mast. They flick around without needing any extra pop though.

decrepit
WA, 12770 posts
3 Jan 2009 9:09PM
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Put some weight on the window of the sail to check how much draft you have, If you can touch the boom on the other side, it's probably too much and you need more outhaul or downhaul.
If the leech is nice and loose, and you don't have too much draft, you'll either have to learn to live with it or get a better sail.
This is a pet hate of mine, big sails that need a lot of wind to rotate them and fill them out. Big guys don't have such a big problem with it, but for light weights like me, this sort of sail can be unusable in the wind range I need it for.
Think the 7.0 like this that hardy lent me was also a Gastra but can't be certain.

My wave sails have stacks of draft and even on the lightest wind setting all battens are behind the mast, means they rotate instantly and are fully filled out in about 10kts.

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
3 Jan 2009 11:37PM
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I have a gastra 7m Pilot & sounds like more downhaul needed, even set mast extension higher so you can get more downhaul...
make sure you downhaul til you start getting looseness in the top part of leech

lalalamort
NSW, 160 posts
4 Jan 2009 12:44AM
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Ive had a similar problem with 7m North Natural....more downhaul needed

Wet Willy
TAS, 2317 posts
4 Jan 2009 2:05AM
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You said:

"I seem to have the sail down hauled as far as I physically can. Any further would require additional mechanical assistance other than the pully system provided"

...but this should be beside the point. Regardless of how difficult you find it, the sail needs a certain amount of downhaul in order to be rigged properly.

Perhaps try to rig it with some expert help, eg at the beach with more experienced windsurfers around, who will help while they are drinking the cold beers you have just given them?

lanky
QLD, 213 posts
4 Jan 2009 7:58AM
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If the top of your sail looks like a plastic bag flapping in the wind and the battens are still that far past the mast your mast is 2 stiff or has the wrong bend curve. If your sail is really flat and the battens are past the mast you need to apply more downhaul. If you struggle to get enough using your own power (and your harness bar) then force some nice big guy on the beach to do it for you. your bottom battens should be sitting roughly in line with the middle of the mast.

NotWal
QLD, 7430 posts
4 Jan 2009 12:19PM
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Could be the wrong mast too.
Gaastras, I believe, have a hard top curve. ie they are relatively soft in the bottom.
An NP mast and some others are soft top and relatively stiff in the bottom. If you are using one of these you will need quite a bit more downhaul than specified to bend the bottom of the mast sufficiently. This will make the top of the sail very loose.

If your downhaul pulleys are all good and you have the downhaul wreathing right you should be able to downhaul a 7 with no more mechanical assistance than a tug cleat or hydro puller or similar. You might try some Formuline downhaul rope too. That makes it easier.

Daneli
QLD, 1538 posts
4 Jan 2009 12:57PM
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NotWal said...

Could be the wrong mast too.
Gaastras, I believe, have a hard top curve. ie they are relatively soft in the bottom.
An NP mast and some others are soft top and relatively stiff in the bottom. If you are using one of these you will need quite a bit more downhaul than specified to bend the bottom of the mast sufficiently. This will make the top of the sail very loose.

If your downhaul pulleys are all good and you have the downhaul wreathing right you should be able to downhaul a 7 with no more mechanical assistance than a tug cleat or hydro puller or similar. You might try some Formuline downhaul rope too. That makes it easier.


Thanks Notwal. What does everyone do - try to stick to the same mast/sail manufacturer to prevent this problem?

Does this mean that when I am looking to buy a new sail I should also get a mast to match?

I was intending to get a 5.0ish in the near future for weekends such as this. I had intended to just get a good condition secondhand sail to save on $$ as I am still trying to get into the sport and accumulate all I need. I will need another mast as well. Should I get one made by the same manufacturer as the sail?

Also, whats a hydro puller? is this one of the windup tensioners I sometimes see people using? I have thought about getting one of these but am frightened of snapping a mast with too much tension. I believe someone once told me these were not necessary as if you can't pull it on by using a piece of timber with the downhaul would around it then it was tensioned enough.

Cheers

lanky
QLD, 213 posts
4 Jan 2009 8:27PM
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When you go to buy a new sail even if its in a shop take your mast and try the sail out. All shops should let you do that.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
4 Jan 2009 10:18PM
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Daneli said...

Some of my lower sail battons (particularly the one immediately above the boom) seem to be extending part way past the sail side edge of the mast when my Gastra 7m sail is fully rigged. I have a similar problem but not quite as bad with a smaller 6.0m sail. This has the effect of needing a good flick on the boom to have it "pop" over to the leeward side of the mast once changing tack. Is this correct rigging? If not how do I get them in the correct position. Is it by more downhaul/mast bend. I seem to have the sail down hauled as far as I physically can. Any further would require additional mechanical assistance other than the pully system provided. I believe I am using the correct mast length although I do use a mast step extension for the 7.0m sail. Any suggestions? I fear I am going to break something particularly next time it blows.


it's karma telling you to share the equipment with your daughter

Wet Willy
TAS, 2317 posts
5 Jan 2009 12:18AM
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Paul Kelf said...

[


Also, whats a hydro puller?


It's one of these




Um, so this thing downhauls your sail for you? Or would you still have to pull it?

There's also the ever-trusty downhaul crank, which lets you winch the bugger all the way to kingdom-come without exerting so much as an ounce of pressure on your lower back. Or, the harness method explained on www.carbonsugar.com



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