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Cammed vs uncammd sails

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Created by Francone > 9 months ago, 17 Feb 2014
Francone
WA, 299 posts
17 Feb 2014 7:30AM
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Cammed vs uncammed sails : I never had a cammed sail before. My weight is 85 kg and I sail on a Bic 290 O.D. in an area here in Canada where the prevailing winds in summer are 10-15 knts max. (They can be a lot stronger but then the lake is frozen with a 1 ft solid ice layer and windsurfing is a bit problematic, even though there are some masochistic souls darting around in -20 degr. temperature with kite-propelled adapted boards or skis.., not for me thanks)
Currently, the sail I use in these SUMMER conditions is an 8.5 Severne Focus, but it doesn't move me around too much, if at all, in these light winds..
This is why I was considering a 9.6 m2 Gun Sail sail , which happens to be cammed. I hear cammed sails have more low-end power. The main concern I have, since I am dunked very frequently, is uphauling : I already find the 8.5 a bit hard , even more so that I end up in uphauling day-long.. I was wondering if a 9.6 would be really much much worse.

Also , how does a cammed sail (and one of this size, to boot !) score in terms of manoeuverability, especially when gybing? I cannot gybe on-the-fly-yet and I usually have to stop in order to reverse course with the gybe . I was wondering what should I expect with such a large sail as a dead-weight to lift .

Even at my ripe old age, I like exercising and I don't mind even suffering a bit to keep fit, but I am not masochistic. Enjoyment must prevail.. I wouldn't want to feel like having gone through a heavy weight-lifting session when I get back home..

Any comments on this? Cammed or not cammed? Speed is not my priority, provided I can move around.

Thanks

Francone



petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
17 Feb 2014 8:16AM
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I would not go bigger,8.5 is plenty big enough. Play around with max negative outhaul etc for better early planing. A crammed 8.5 is possibly another choice. Would not go full race sail though.

If you have a spare 2k floating around the I-sonic 117 W model is a great board for getting going in 10 to 12 knots with a 8.5 and big fin. A super light board will make a huge difference to getting going.

Big sails I hate the feel,and there"s no getting away from it I"m afraid.

SeanAUS120
QLD, 769 posts
17 Feb 2014 11:15AM
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Cammed sails are heavier, and often the jump +9m sails can go up a boom size / mast size which is heavier again. Cammed sails have a wider luff pocket which fills up with water when you drop it which is EVEN heavier again if you are regularly uphauling.

I can't remember the 'Focus' but is it a 6-batten sail? Typically in those sizes above 8m sails have 7 battens so jumping up to the 9.6m might actually be a radical weight difference. You will definitely get better early planing and some more stability in high winds with a cammed 9.6m though ...

To be honest, if the wind strengths permit you to stay on the 8.5m, I would STAY with no-cams. They are tons more fun, easier to rig, less bits to break, lighter and MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to flip in the gybe so you can focus on the footwork and positioning till you get it right. If you're still in the learning gybing phase, smaller sails are MUCH easier as you don't have to worry so much about keeping the sail in the neutral (weightless) position as you flip it and can recover if you drop the sail too far etc etc.

I think LIGHTER is better always. ALWAYS. You might be more out of getting a newer NCX 9.0m with no cams and maybe down the track upgrading the board to something lighter ... the BIC's are kinda heavy.

FormulaNova
WA, 15086 posts
17 Feb 2014 9:19AM
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Buy an easy-uphaul. You hook it on, lean back, and your sail lifts itself out of the water. Heaven for a big sail.

You can also balance the rig against your body weight and have a bit of a rest while standing up

I don't know what a Bic 290 is, but given the 290 probably means centimetres, you might find a newer wider board can help you plane a little earlier, and the width will suit bigger sails well.

flatout
85 posts
17 Feb 2014 10:01AM
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I would definately get a fomula board if i were you. I gives you crazy early planing compared to normal boards, while maintaining a large base for uphauling. I spend many summers on a formula board with an 8m2 in 10-12knots. It was always my go-to freeride setup, even though i had a 9.8m2 and a slalomboard.
The 9.6 really is going to be quite a bit heavier, cams don't mean more power quite the opposite, when it comes to full-on race sails. But in the larger sizes they do provide stability.

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
17 Feb 2014 10:14AM
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I agree with those saying a a newer wider early planing board would be the first priority. It will make learning to gybe MUCH easier too, and you'll probably be able to tack it also. Much easier to uphaul on also.
Personally I love cammed sails, but they are a lot harder to uphaul, and the big ones are a lot heavier to gybe, and if you are already struggling to uphaul the one you have, do not go bigger.

joe windsurf
1482 posts
17 Feb 2014 8:34PM
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Hey Franco:

Joe from Montreal here...
I weigh much more than you - 100 kilos.
and obviously sail in the same winds - same place...
i am actually starting to go back to NO camber sails - for ease and maneuverability
however, currently use
in < 12 knot winds - Mistral Equipe longboard with 8.x sail (camber or not)
in 12 to 15 knots - BIC Techno Formula of 93 cm width with 10 m2 sail - with cambers
over 15 knots - freeride time
anything over 8 m2 i have the EZ uphaul - just in case

with your weight on a BIC 293 OD and an 8.5 sail, I would hope that you could plane in about 12 to 13 knots
sometimes just changing the fin helps - is your fin around 48 cm ??
you should be good to go - let it go downwind a bit to plane if necessary

paddymac
WA, 939 posts
17 Feb 2014 9:44PM
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One thing to keep in mind is that different types of sail have different low wind ranges.

For instance, a grunty 5.3m wave sail may be used by wave sailors in the same conditions that a slalom racer uses a 7.8m race sail. The wave sail will be heaps easier to gybe and turn a board on a wave, the race sail will handle being overpowered, and give heaps of power for staying planning out of a gybe.

For the sailing you are doing, 10 - 15 knots on a longish board, you might consider a race board sail or a twin cam freeride sail. Both these types of sails focus on bottom end power. No cam freeride sails should also have great bottom end and may be a little lighter but in my opinion will not be as powerful in a lull of 8 knots and not quite as stable in a gust of 15 knots.

Good twin cam freeride sails are made by most brands, here are some examples:
http://www.ezzy.com/sails/2014-sails/2014-ezzy-lion/ 9.5m
www.gaastra.com/sails/2014/freeride/cosmic 9.0m
www.naishsails.com/2013/INDY-2-cam%20Freeride-Slalom/ (only up to 8.2m)
www.north-windsurf.com/eng/nodes/display/product/s-type-3 9.5m
www.severnesails.com/freeride-sails/severne-turbo 9.2m
www.tushingham.com/windsurfing/sails/lightning 9.4m
www.neilpryde.com/sails/freerace/2014-h2-racing.html 9.3m, 10.0m (might be more freerace than the freeride Hornet which only goes to 8.2m)

A few brands also offer raceboard sails, these are normally designed for longer race boards that need one rig from 5-30 knots.
www.severnesails.com/race-sails/severne-raceboard 8.5m, 9.5m
www.tushingham.com/windsurfing/sails/xr-race 7.5m, 8.5m, 9.5m

I only have experience with Tushingham Lightning and Severne Turbo. Both are great sails with heaps of bottom end, a light feeling, ok stability and speed.

Beaglebuddy
1595 posts
18 Feb 2014 6:18AM
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Some of the cammed sails are used by pros for racing totally overpowered by our standards, they will have many battens and weigh a lot to remain stable while overpowered. Other cammed sails may only have 2 or 3 cams and be fairly light. It would be a bad call to be out on a heavy race sail while underpowered.
Cammed sails will really need to have the correct mast or the cams won't go on and will pop off or won't rotate properly.
A cammed sail will keep it's deep profile as you sail thru a lull and perhaps keep you planing.
A magazine did a test of two similar sails from the same maker, one cammed and the other not, they found the only real difference was the cammed sail worked better going upwind.
Maybe you should try a slow tack instead of a gybe.

plettil
64 posts
23 Feb 2014 10:20PM
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I always sailed cam, the S-Type are quite easy rigged. The locked profile gives power but if the wind is low....
I think you're question is more about what type of combo you should use.
I don't sail below 13-14knots. If I would, I would focus on the board more than on the sail. 9.5cammed sail will be huge and most are designed for formula race.
You might better trade off for a big light wind free ride board or a race board (not a formula).
My 2 cents



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"Cammed vs uncammd sails" started by Francone