Forums > Windsurfing General

A replacement for my beloved DH hand cleat tool ??

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Created by Waiting4wind > 9 months ago, 13 Jun 2011
Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
13 Jun 2011 10:43AM
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A while back I lost my down haul tool, its the little hand (one hand) held aluminium thing with a cleat in it. I've been trying to find the same one for ages but not luck

The one I had was split at one end for the rope go though to the cleat. It was very compact and easy to tuck in the wetsuit or harness.

I've seen the Powergrip by Camcleat but thats a little chunkier, and I've tried the plastic one which broke after a few sessions.

Does anyone know where I can find a replacement.

longwinded
WA, 347 posts
13 Jun 2011 8:45AM
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Ronstan used to make them, try yacht chandler.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
13 Jun 2011 10:10AM
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowline


FormulaNova
WA, 15084 posts
13 Jun 2011 10:32AM
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Surf Sail Australia? They seem to have lots of this sort of thing, and a reasonable website too.

CJW
NSW, 1726 posts
13 Jun 2011 12:38PM
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Using Barns more technical approach or my alternative 'wrap rope around hook lots' technique, apply to below. Profit.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
13 Jun 2011 12:48PM
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Thanks guys, I have actually downhauled my sails since losing the tool, using the various methods. I even have a couple of the dowhhaul bars. However none have been as small, quick and convenient to use as the one I lost.

Thanks Formulanova, Surfsail have the Clamcleat Powergrip which is a bit bigger than the one I had. If I can't find the one I want I'll order one of those.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
13 Jun 2011 11:26AM
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But you can tie a bowline in literally 3 seconds..

It's..

- smaller (nonexistent)
- more convenient (it's everywhere and nowhere)
- practically free (you need to buy the rope)
- and you can never loose it. (unless you have alzheimer's)

Plus when you need to change the downhaul again, the knot is still there, saving even more time.

I worked at a centre where we downhauled sails all day long, we had a box full of those cleats, still in their packets..

Carantoc
WA, 7175 posts
13 Jun 2011 11:57AM
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Cut about 4" off the top of a wooden broom handle

Drill two holes through it, equal spacing apart

Do this 4 times

Put one in car, one in sail bag, one in pocket and one in box of mast foot bits.

Now you can always find one.

To sweep floor bend over a bit more.

To downhaul sail thread rope up one hole, back through the other and then around and under the rope that goes between the two holes.

Downhaul, slide wooden thingy up rope, down haul again. Tie figure of 8 in rope, wrap around mast foot. Now you got the the thingy on the sail, can downhaul on the beach.

If you loose one, go look for another - you have 3 that cost all up $0.


If you don't understand send me $19.95 +p&p and I will send you one fully biodegradable downhaul hand cleat tool.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
13 Jun 2011 12:10PM
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If you have a stick like object, forget drilling holes and use this knot..




Whoever just red thumbed the bowline needs a reality check.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
13 Jun 2011 3:17PM
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barn said...

But you can tie a bowline in literally 3 seconds..

It's..

- smaller (nonexistent)
- more convenient (it's everywhere and nowhere)
- practically free (you need to buy the rope)
- and you can never loose it. (unless you have alzheimer's)

Plus when you need to change the downhaul again, the knot is still there, saving even more time.

I worked at a centre where we downhauled sails all day long, we had a box full of those cleats, still in their packets..



I get the knot (but I do have trouble remembering knots, maybe I have got alzheimer's ) But you still need to attach the rope to something to get the purchase.

I'll give you an example (maybe I'm lazy). I was sailing yesterday on my 5.2m it was gusting 30 knots. I stopped to adjust the outhaul, near the shore in the water. With cold wet hands and rough water I couldn't even get enough power (w/o pain) to uncleat the outhaul. Normally with my nifty tool which was in my harness pocket, the adjustment would be done in 20 seconds and pain free. So yesterday I did wade through the shore break on to the beach, took my harness hook off, tied a gumby note and did the OH. The point is, it's a much quicker exercise, in the water or out, with the tool.

BTW it wasn't me that red thumbed!

Carantoc, I have the aluminium commercial version of the DH bar with the 2 holes. It's not as quick and convenient and doesn't fit in my wesuit or harness.

I bought a few of these DH tools in Hong Kong many years ago and gave them to my mates, I might have to reposses one of the ones I gave away!

CJW
NSW, 1726 posts
13 Jun 2011 3:19PM
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Unless you are downhauling a formula sail which requires a lot of D'H, hence most people use a winch, I do not understand why people don't use the harness bar? You always have it and you never lose it. Why would you go about buying/building all sorts of contraptions when you have a perfectly good D'H handle built into part of your sailing gear? I am yet to see any negative of using it?

Edit: Just saw above. Once your sail is Downhauled your rope will be long enough to downhaul it further by using the harness bar without taking the harness of; think leg power. It's easy and once you know the knot like in the ezzy vid (or even just wrap the rope around the hook a few times and 'clamp' it with your hand) you'll be able to do it just as fast as having to break out some random tool...that you also have to carry with you.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
13 Jun 2011 2:18PM
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Waiting4wind said...

I'll give you an example (maybe I'm lazy). I was sailing yesterday on my 5.2m it was gusting 30 knots. I stopped to adjust the outhaul, near the shore in the water. With cold wet hands and rough water I couldn't even get enough power (w/o pain) to uncleat the outhaul. Normally with my nifty tool which was in my harness pocket, the adjustment would be done in 20 seconds and pain free. So yesterday I did wade through the shore break on to the beach, took my harness hook off, tied a gumby note and did the OH. The point is, it's a much quicker exercise, in the water or out, with the tool.



I find it easier just to unwrap the left over outhaul from the mast base, tie that ezzy knot (it literally takes me around 1 second), slide it onto my harness, and push the board away with my hands. As the harness is still attached to me it works quite well. Then cleat off and wrap back up as normal. The benefit is you don't have to try using something that might fall out of your harness or into the sand -- all the bits stay attached the whole time. I've done this in waist deep water often.

Mark _australia
WA, 23450 posts
13 Jun 2011 2:19PM
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Nebbs if your outhaul is around the mast base, you have a different technique to most of us

Tying a knot is surely slower than just threading rope thru two holes in the downhaul tool described by Carantoc

That is what I've always had, and for the rare occasion I want to downhaul a bit more on the beach, the harness spreader bar works just fine

I lost my "Hydropulla" and the only dowel I had was too thin so I have just put the dowel inside a bit of 1" alum pipe, filled the gap with epoxy and drilled two holes in it like Carantoc said. Voila - free, made with offcuts, surely faster than tying a bowline (OK, 1 sec vs 1.3 sec ) and bl00dy indestructable

barn
WA, 2960 posts
13 Jun 2011 2:44PM
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Mark _australia said...




Tying a knot is surely slower than just threading rope thru two holes in the downhaul tool described by Carantoc




Tying a knot is only slower if you can't tie knots.

DavMen
NSW, 1508 posts
13 Jun 2011 5:31PM
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buy an alu - boom.... in 12 months time you'll have more little down haul tools than you know what to do with - just add the Ezzy knot to each 250mm section of ex-boom material.

gregc
VIC, 1299 posts
13 Jun 2011 6:18PM
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meh I cant tie knots at all I use the spreader bar to do the downhaul for the sail and also for undoing the outhaul when its really cold and I have been out for a while.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
13 Jun 2011 7:14PM
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barn said...

If you have a stick like object, forget drilling holes and use this knot..



Whoever just red thumbed the bowline needs a reality check.




Harden up and use this method. It is just as fast if not faster that threading rope through holes etc. and you can get a much better grip. Knowing the knot (which is trivially easy to learn) will help you out when making on-the beach adjustments with your spreader bar.

Oh and the knot is not a bowline. That's something entirely different.

SWS
SA, 196 posts
13 Jun 2011 6:54PM
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If this is what you are looking for:





You should be able to get it from Sunshine coast sailboards as they import them.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
13 Jun 2011 7:50PM
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SWS said...

If this is what you are looking for:





You should be able to get it from Sunshine coast sailboards as they import them.


Its not the one I had, mine was a little thinner and lighter looking. But I'd settle for one of those. I still reckon it would be up upgrade to the piece of broom handle with holes in it !

barn
WA, 2960 posts
13 Jun 2011 5:53PM
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ikw777 said...


Oh and the knot is not a bowline. That's something entirely different.




Yep, I should have made myself clear.. I first was talking about the bowline, which is perfect for using your hands to pull the downhaul on..

Then I posted this Ezzy knot video for anyone who uses a stick like object as a tool, rather than drilling holes in it..

The Ezzy knot will not work on a harness hook, and a bowline is inferior to the Ezzy knot if your using a stick..


Paying money for a tool which literally grows on trees? priceless..

snides8
WA, 1731 posts
13 Jun 2011 6:28PM
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Yep surf sail have them
There all i use for down hauling
Race sails.
I keep it in the the mast base while sailing.
No knots easy..

FormulaNova
WA, 15084 posts
13 Jun 2011 6:55PM
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Waiting4wind said...

Thanks guys, I have actually downhauled my sails since losing the tool, using the various methods. I even have a couple of the dowhhaul bars. However none have been as small, quick and convenient to use as the one I lost.

Thanks Formulanova, Surfsail have the Clamcleat Powergrip which is a bit bigger than the one I had. If I can't find the one I want I'll order one of those.


Someone has already posted it, but do a search on cleat at SSA and you get:

http://www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/showProduct/Windsurfing/Windsurfing+Accessories/353024/Clamcleat+Power+Grip

or the bigger one you don't want:

www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/showProduct/Windsurfing/Windsurfing+Accessories/cl262/Clamcleat+Power+Grip+No+2

I use one of these, but carrying it in my wetsuit just causes all sorts of questions:

www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/showProduct/Windsurfing/Windsurfing+Accessories/339458/Chinook+Rig+Winch

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
13 Jun 2011 10:09PM
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Thanks formulanova and snides, that is the one I had, don't know how I missed it on the SS site!

WINDY MILLER
WA, 3183 posts
14 Jun 2011 9:15AM
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i used to use the r1der method.

wrap the rope around your hand, grit your teeth and push the mast away with your leg whilst pulling.

due to lame hand i now use the harness bar method

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
14 Jun 2011 11:05AM
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snides8 said...

Yep surf sail have them
There all i use for down hauling
Race sails.
I keep it in the the mast base while sailing.
No knots easy..




I consider my clamcleat to be one of my most valuable pieces of equipment.
I have a powerex extension for downhauling, but with my soft little hands I still need the clamcleat to be able to tighten and uncleat my outhaul and uncleat the downhaul from the extension to loosen it.
I had never thought of storing it in the mast foot though. Now that's a good idea, except it means I'd have to detach sail from rig to adjust my outhaul...
I don't have a pocket in my harness or flotation vest. Any ideas?

hardpole
WA, 604 posts
14 Jun 2011 5:47PM
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Oh and the knot is not a bowline. That's something entirely different.




I hadnt seen that knot, I always do a clove hitch around my spreader bar. Works fine for me.


Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
14 Jun 2011 8:32PM
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Windxtasy said...

snides8 said...

Yep surf sail have them
There all i use for down hauling
Race sails.
I keep it in the the mast base while sailing.
No knots easy..




I don't have a pocket in my harness or flotation vest. Any ideas?


I used to wear mine around my neck like a necklace on a piece of rope. It fits snuggly under the rashie and between my man boobs!

On another note...I definitely think we are a weird lot us windsurfers... when a thread on on a downhaul tool beats the one on windsurfing girls...I guess we just like our tools!

patsken
WA, 713 posts
14 Jun 2011 6:42PM
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I just use the CamCleats etc I find left on the beach after the forgetful ones take off.....

barn
WA, 2960 posts
14 Jun 2011 7:00PM
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Waiting4wind said...

Select to expand quote

I used to wear mine around my neck like a necklace on a piece of rope. It fits snuggly under the rashie and between my man boobs!




For some reason I get really freaked out when I see windsurfers with downhaul grade rope around their neck.. I see it all the time..

Worst case scenario is it gets caught in something and pulls your head off.. And I get worried I'm gonna have to resuscitate some old fart who is being chocked to death by his self issued noose..


FormulaNova
WA, 15084 posts
14 Jun 2011 8:07PM
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barn said...

Waiting4wind said...

Select to expand quote

I used to wear mine around my neck like a necklace on a piece of rope. It fits snuggly under the rashie and between my man boobs!




For some reason I get really freaked out when I see windsurfers with downhaul grade rope around their neck.. I see it all the time..

Worst case scenario is it gets caught in something and pulls your head off.. And I get worried I'm gonna have to resuscitate some old fart who is being chocked to death by his self issued noose..



Yeah, I understand your concern. I ran into some low flying kite lines and it pulled my head right off.

I wanted to put it back on, but some said not to bother.

Kite lines in the neck hurt, although the initial anger at the guy that dropped the kite in front of me took care of it for a while [}:)]

snides8
WA, 1731 posts
14 Jun 2011 10:02PM
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Windxtasy said...

snides8 said...

Yep surf sail have them
There all i use for down hauling
Race sails.
I keep it in the the mast base while sailing.
No knots easy..




I consider my clamcleat to be one of my most valuable pieces of equipment.
I have a powerex extension for downhauling, but with my soft little hands I still need the clamcleat to be able to tighten and uncleat my outhaul and uncleat the downhaul from the extension to loosen it.
I had never thought of storing it in the mast foot though. Now that's a good idea, except it means I'd have to detach sail from rig to adjust my outhaul...
I don't have a pocket in my harness or flotation vest. Any ideas?


Hi windxtasy
I am a bit puzzled as to why you would need a cleat for the outhaul?
On your koncepts you prob shouldn't need much outhaul at all,unless your rigging on a super stiff mast?
The other solution would be to use an adjustable outhaul.
You should collar me on the beach next time.




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"A replacement for my beloved DH hand cleat tool ??" started by Waiting4wind