Hi All,
I'm thinking about getting a 3 cam sail like severne overdrive or anything else thats compatible with severne masts but not sure about the size.
first let me explain the decision..
I've selected the cam sail because of the wind range, i sail in Melbourne Port Phillip bay (choppy) and wind is not that consistent and also I have limited time after work. I rarely rig a different sail during a session either and frankly I cannot bother with rigging, I'd rather adjust downhaul outhault and enjoy 1/2 hour to hour more even if its overpowered/under powered. Have a NCX 6.5 I use with my 85ltr freestyle wave board. As you can guess I love overpowered sailing and need max power all times. weight is 72 kg and extremely fit. I have only two boards , 85ltr freestyle wave and 107ltr (69cm) slalom board. all the masts are RDM. have sailed a 7.5m twin cam turbo last year, had the bottom end but bit unfriendly when the wind picks to high teens...
so far I'm considering either 7m or 7.8m sail but not sure which one is best for 14-20kt wind range? On paper 7.8m is the correct size for 107ltr slalom board but the problem is this assumes consistent wind and changing boards/sails when the wind changes.
thanks
I'm 70kegs, sail in predominantly choppy water, happiest when I'm blasting right on the upper range of my sail. Mostly I'm on a 100l carbon slalom board.
I sail OverDrives, and predominantly a 7.0 which I personably would be rigging for the 14-20kt range with a big expectant grin. It holds a heap of wind comfortably. At the lower ends, it really depends on your ability to get a board planning in marginal conditions, but I'm confident I could get mine going in less than 14kts.
So I think a 7.0 fits your bill, and likely your existing mast as well; the 7.0m OD takes a 430, but noting they ship with SDM cams, so you'll need to source RDM cams to go with it.
Going to a 7.8 is perfectly reasonable, I see guys using them when I'm on my 7.0, but they're usually heavier than me. The OD has quite a few things you can do to de-tune it if you need to dump power, but that's true of most big race-oriented sails.
If you like the 6.5 NCX then how about a 7.5 NCX? Would make a nice combination that will cover a large wind range and will be lighter and easier to waterstart than the cammed sails.
6.5 to 7m is not a big enough difference to be useful.
Your second sail should be more around 7.5. The 7.8 would be good.
The NCX would be lighter and easier to waterstart and uphaul if the wind really drops. If you are used to the NCX I would get another, because they gybe differently to a cammed sail, and rigging is so much quicker when all your sails are the same type.
I have a 7.5 in a no cam and a three cam and in terms of power I can't feel the difference except in gybing (cammed is better), but I prefer the no cam because it is so much lighter.
All my smaller sails are 3 cam, so in general I do love cammed sails.
If you are going for a no cam sail you need one with a very stable foil. The NCX are good.
I would say 7.0 because it has more bottom end than the NCX yet still not so big that you will have to come in if it really blows. Having said that, last Friday I was starting to think that my 6.7 convert was feeling a little big as the wind increased yet there was still a guy out holding a 7.8 overdrive. He said he couldn't be bothered changing down sail sizes, so those sails have some top end.
I recommend Ka koncept 7.5 awesome rang, low swing rate and lots of grunt. You will never regret it.
Whatever sail you decide to get, the trick is as I found recently, after years of being too tight, is to get a carbon boom. Stops the draft moving around when a sail is really powered up. Really helps to get on the plane as your energy isn't expended bowing aluminium and helps at the high end, to keep control.
If you want wind range try a reflex, that is what they are for, massive wind range and saing fully powered up. I can sail my 9.7 reflex in a strengthening sea breeze and hang onto it to the point where i can swap to being fully powered up on a 7.8. Im about 105kg. Of course reflex means sdm so od might suit you. But overdrive is similar and i see guys hanging onto big ones. Id err on the big size. The reflex seems to like max downhaul regardless so that tends to not be adjusted but definitely get an adjustable outhaul, nothing like being able to adjust that on the water.
interesting and helpful comments..
I've considered free race sail (NCX) but not sure if it's got the same wind range as a 3cam sail. Does a no cam NCX has 2-3 knot less wind range compared to a 3 cam? Unless we can quantify the differences its not easy top make a decision between cam vs no cam. Lets the take each point and relate to practical sailing session
1. weight - on paper 3 cam sail weighs 500g heavier than the free race version. That's not much of a difference considering you are not freestyling with a 7.5m sail. Sail this size you have longer runs and you feel the weight only when slogging or in transitions - fully powered planing hardly notice 500g weight difference. Since your runs are longer you'll have few transitions and with heaps of bottom end and overpowered sailing you can minimize non planing time (plus technique). So the weight different may not be a deciding factor. swing weight can be further reduced with the current crop of carbon booms as they are so much lighter.
2. Waterstart - This is a problem only when you fully submerge a cam sail, but this happens rarely as even when you drop a gybe you'll be on the right side of the board with the sail over your shoulders. If your drop gybes and completely loose the sail often, cams are not for you anyway. also longer runs mean occational waterstart is not a deal breaker.
3. parts breaking - Cam has more parts to break and I've already done this in the past pushing cams in forcefully. This is a big negative for me with cams.
4. rigging time - everyone says it takes longer but how long? if I have to spend 3min extra to rig a cam sail but spend 1/2 extra on the water planing then i'd happily take the cam sail. my experience is once you rigged cam sail 10 times you will only spend 2/-3 minutes extra. of course if its the fist time its different.
5. pumping - no cam easier to pump but cam will get you going without pumping
6. Fun - no cam is heaps better
7. cost and resale value - no cam NCX all so easy to find second hand and also sell . low risk option
8. upwind - 3 cam slightly better but not much of a difference
9. stability at top end - assume 3 cam is better but never tested
10. top speed - similar across the wind
12. bottom end - real question mark here as no one given a definitive answer . say 3 cam is slightly better but if its not 2 kts its useless
13. deep down wind - 3 cam better
14. choppy water - no cam better or is it?
15 . suits slalom board - maybe equal or 3cam slightly better
So really it all boils down to wind range as I'd only want one big sail and phase out the 6.5 eventually. so end up with 4 sails and two boards to cover 14 -30kts
(4.2, 4.7, 5.5, and 7sh)
if the wind range is similar i'd take the 7.5 NCX if not 3 cam sounds right.
Select to expand quoteSimonTheSailor said..
interesting and helpful comments..
I've considered free race sail (NCX) but not sure if it's got the same wind range as a 3cam sail. Does a no cam NCX has 2-3 knot less wind range compared to a 3 cam? Unless we can quantify the differences its not easy top make a decision between cam vs no cam. Lets the take each point and relate to practical sailing session
1. weight - on paper 3 cam sail weighs 500g heavier than the free race version. That's not much of a difference considering you are not freestyling with a 7.5m sail. Sail this size you have longer runs and you feel the weight only when slogging or in transitions - fully powered planing hardly notice 500g weight difference. Since your runs are longer you'll have few transitions and with heaps of bottom end and overpowered sailing you can minimize non planing time (plus technique). So the weight different may not be a deciding factor. swing weight can be further reduced with the current crop of carbon booms as they are so much lighter.
2. Waterstart - This is a problem only when you fully submerge a cam sail, but this happens rarely as even when you drop a gybe you'll be on the right side of the board with the sail over your shoulders. If your drop gybes and completely loose the sail often, cams are not for you anyway. also longer runs mean occational waterstart is not a deal breaker
3. parts breaking - Cam has more parts to break and I've already done this in the past pushing cams in forcefully. This is a big negative for me with cams.
4. rigging time - everyone says it takes longer but how long? if I have to spend 3min extra to rig a cam sail but spend 1/2 extra on the water planing then i'd happily take the cam sail. my experience is once you rigged cam sail 10 times you will only spend 2/-3 minutes extra. of course if its the fist time its different.
5. pumping - no cam easier to pump but cam will get you going without pumping
6. Fun - no cam is heaps better
7. cost and resale value - no cam NCX all so easy to find second hand and also sell . low risk option
8. upwind - 3 cam slightly better but not much of a difference
9. stability at top end - assume 3 cam is better but never tested
10. top speed - similar across the wind
12. bottom end - real question mark here as no one given a definitive answer . say 3 cam is slightly better but if its not 2 kts its useless
13. deep down wind - 3 cam better
14. choppy water - no cam better or is it?
15 . suits slalom board - maybe equal or 3cam slightly better
So really it all boils down to wind range as I'd only want one big sail and phase out the 6.5 eventually. so end up with 4 sails and two boards to cover 14 -30kts
(4.2, 4.7, 5.5, and 7sh)
if the wind range is similar i'd take the 7.5 NCX if not 3 cam sounds right.
Awesome blog , have to agree with all you said.
As a 120 kg heavy bastard I have a couple of additions.
Because of my weight I don't use as much down haul otherwise I loose too much power in mast bending twist off the top. I got to get off the beers but I'll never be the 80 kg the sails are designed around.
I am lucky enough to have both sails in most sizes.
I find I need a lot more sail size to get me going but once I'm planing not so much.
A non cammed sail is better to get me planing but then gets out of control , too much sail.
A cammed sail a little harder to get going but easier to hang onto overpowered.
I prefer a cammed sail , weight is no issue , bit chunkier in the turns. My only negative about cammed sails is they can sometimes go too fast in choppy bay conditions.
No cam sails are easier but because of my weight are more wind range sensitive.
Oh and for me I think cammed sailed are way faster across the wind , but that's because I need to hang onto a overpowered sail.
At least us weighty guys can hold a board down onto the water even when going way too fast , it's only the fast stopping that hurts , just ask my booms !
might need to think about the gaps
7.0 to 5.5 is quite a big gap.
7.8 to 6.5 to 5.5 I think would work, or 7.0 to 6.0 to 5.5
