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2 sail sizes, with a gap, on one mast.

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Created by evlPanda > 9 months ago, 26 Sep 2009
evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
26 Sep 2009 10:33PM
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Bought some new/last year's sails recently, but it took me a while to find a model where you can have a gap between sizes, and they both fit on one mast. As in three sizes fit on one mast. Mine are 2009 NP Alphas 6.2 and 5.4. I note this year's aren't the same and I'd now require two masts.

Is there any brand that intentionally does this, by design? It makes a big difference in overall price and simplicity if you only need one mast, and eventually swayed my decision.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
26 Sep 2009 8:41PM
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I think North used to do this.

Not sure if it's still a selling point.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
26 Sep 2009 10:41PM
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evlPanda said...

Bought some new/last year's sails recently, but it took me a while to find a model where you can have a gap between sizes, and they both fit on one mast. As in three sizes fit on one mast. Mine are 2009 NP Alphas 6.2 and 5.4. I note this year's aren't the same and I'd now require two masts.

Is there any brand that intentionally does this, by design? It makes a big difference in overall price and simplicity if you only need one mast, and eventually swayed my decision.


you can't put two sails on one mast ep, it just won't work. booms not long enough. and there is only one mast track so u can't use two masts.

some people just can't have enough wind can they

Rubby
65 posts
26 Sep 2009 9:01PM
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Check out the North website, they are pushing >>one mast for all sails<<. However, it requires the use of one of their mast Xtenders, either a 40 cm or 50 cm. I have the 50 cm and have used it with my 430 North XC for an '06 6.9 Duke. It's really is too loose for my tastes, but it does work. A 460 would serve me much better, but I have had some enjoyable sailing days using the extender and the 6.9. I bought a used '08 5.9 Duke recently, and it rigs correctly on the 430. I could put a 5.0, 5.4 and 6.4 on this mast, too. I may just buy a 5.0, but the recommended mast is a 400 so I figure that won't make for the best rig. You can put all the Drive sails, 4.7 to 7.0 on one mast, a 430. However, it is much easier to put different sized older sails on one mast, those that predate the loose leach technology. Right now, I keep three sails, a 5.0, 6.0 and 7.1 in Florida which rig with one boom and a 460 mast. The smaller two are old World sails from the early 90's, but the 7.1 is an '04 Pacific Synthesis. I sail them with an older board, too. Since I was restricted in the amount of equipment I could bring down there, that was what I brought.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
27 Sep 2009 12:13AM
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I've been considering this too. I'd like to get a new quiver of sails, freeride no cam. Something like the Neil Pryde Hellcats . However if you go from 7.7 to 5.7 you need 3 differernt masts, 460, 430, 400. I've got a NP X6 460 but don't really want to buy two more masts at something like $700 a pop.

Maybe sail manufacturers should consider this next year especially considering the financial crisis.

paddymac
WA, 938 posts
26 Sep 2009 10:29PM
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Evil one, check out NP Zen - one mast, one boom, five sails, 4.9 - 7.2 on a 430 mast. No idea what they're like but applaud they concept.

www.neilpryde.com/?Itemid=59&id=20&option=com_npproducts&view=detail

nick0
NSW, 510 posts
27 Sep 2009 12:33AM
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i rig a 4.2sailworks rev and a 5m naish force on a 400sailworks lipstick ... the naish sail works quite well on this mast ...how do mast extentions work with a extendiable mast base ? would it be safe to use the mast extention and the full extention on my mast base at same time .... also i guss the sail would set totaly diferent than on the mast it was made for ???anny one ever done this type of rigging?

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
27 Sep 2009 1:08AM
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i run my KA kult's on one mast. 6.4, 5.8, 5,3 have for a few years now.

recently bought a 400 skinny so now can get 6.4 down to 3.7 on 2 masts.

the simmer addict (freeride) is a one mast fits all. 7.2 down to 4.8 on a 430 mast
neil pryde zen - 7.2 down to 4.9 on a 430 mast.

Rhys McClintock
NSW, 995 posts
27 Sep 2009 9:30AM
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I bought a Zen for that reason... Got the 6.7 and it's great - but if you've got Alpha's, you might not wanna make the downgrade lol... On the other hand... If you wanna offload that 5.4 i'm all ears

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8224 posts
27 Sep 2009 10:15AM
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Ive got Sailworks Revos - a 90's model 5.6 , 2003- 5m , 2005 - 4.2m , early 90's 3.3m & they all rig on my 430 lipstick(?) mast with an extension. I have a little plastic cap extension thingy for the 5.6m that sits on the top of the mast but they all set ok. Not that Im an expert but they seem ok & do the job.

Kokopelli
VIC, 35 posts
27 Sep 2009 11:20AM
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I have always gone for the one mast - one boom option. Chinook 152 - 207 and an older NP 460 mast. Searching around a bit for sails that suit has taken a little longer but I feel that it is worth the trouble when I have to load the family and all the equipment in the car at once. I now have an Aerotech 4.7, Ezzy Wave SE 5.0, Gaastra CX2 5.7 (a little tired now), a NP Supersonic 6.7 and an NP Jet 7.4 While some of them are a bit old they provide good sizing to cover a decent range of conditions. For me the ease of packing gear and when $$$ and space are short it makes it definitely worth seeking out a brand of sail to rig on one mast and boom (if it suits your needs.) I am sure many will find that this too restricting but it works for me and my bank account.

NordRoi
668 posts
27 Sep 2009 9:39AM
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I did a trip arround the world in 2003 - 2004 once and I had one mast, 1 boom and 3 sails...I actually did Cairns to Adelaide..sailed so many spots! My quiver, 5.2, 4.2, 3.7 Ezzy wave SE and a skinny 400. The specs require 430, 400 and 370...but be serious..unless you have a lot of money, you don't need 3 masts for that, a 40cm mast extension and an adjustable head cap on the sails...Neil Pryde don't offer that(adjutable head) but Ezzy offer that. I also have 6.3 and 5.2 who goes on the same 430..but for the trip I traveled light..3 sails, 1 boom, 1 mast, 1 75L wave board(that was a bit small for the east coast) and a surfboard. On Hawaii and NZ..the board was a bit big...so no magic solution. Yes North was promoting 1 mast quiver, but it wasn't on all sails and for sure not on specilized sails...in 2010 doesn't heard that?

Ezzy handle longer mast or shorter mast than the best mast option on the specs, most sails does anyways.
While I was on Maui, my girlfriend had a Simmer quiver..and the 5.3 (430 mast specs) wasn't able to handle the 400cm mast. The sails was not good at all..and when geared up with the 430..that was a great sail.so some company seems to be more specs oriented.

For sails you are not using a lot..in my quiver I'm usin the 3.3 and the 3.7(and too much gap btw)...I stuck with the 400cm not mater what.

cheers.
nord_roi


Kokopelli said...

I have always gone for the one mast - one boom option. Chinook 152 - 207 and an older NP 460 mast. Searching around a bit for sails that suit has taken a little longer but I feel that it is worth the trouble when I have to load the family and all the equipment in the car at once. I now have an Aerotech 4.7, Ezzy Wave SE 5.0, Gaastra CX2 5.7 (a little tired now), a NP Supersonic 6.7 and an NP Jet 7.4 While some of them are a bit old they provide good sizing to cover a decent range of conditions. For me the ease of packing gear and when $$$ and space are short it makes it definitely worth seeking out a brand of sail to rig on one mast and boom (if it suits your needs.) I am sure many will find that this too restricting but it works for me and my bank account.


Kan
24 posts
27 Sep 2009 9:49AM
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consider simmer....
mine...5.4, 6.2 & 6.8.. use 430 for all....
I even sold my 460 too ....

Kokopelli
VIC, 35 posts
27 Sep 2009 11:53AM
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Nice one NordRoi, I agree and would not hesitate in buying a complete quiver of Ezzy Sails if $$$ would allow (some day eh!). They handle wear and tear extremely well, rig easily and set very well with extensions and variable head straps and they sure are sweet to use. Cheers

Mark _australia
WA, 23436 posts
27 Sep 2009 10:50AM
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Evlpanda I haven't looked at new sails for a long while and I am quite shocked to hear that a 5.4 and 6.2 use different masts ......... I think is has to be a marketing ploy to get us to buy more masts. I can't see any other reason. I say that because most sail lines would fit 3 - 4 sails per mast for the last few years with no performance problems.
Almost all wave sail ranges in the last few years have had about 5.2 to about 6.5 on a 430 so I think diff masts for 5.4 and 6.2 is plain silly.

I get 4.2 - 6.7 on two masts (400 and 430) .... and they are the recommended mast lengths too. I don't mind dropping the sail down the mast a bit (adjustable head) so the 4.0 works fine too.



sailpilot
QLD, 785 posts
27 Sep 2009 1:12PM
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The Loft sails generally have a good mast tolerance, I'm using a 460 from 5.7 up to 7.8. My 5.7 and 6.0 are made for 430's but being a bit heavier I find the smaller sails still work well on a bigger mast. As mark said the adjustable top sails are a worth looking out for as the options are open .

http://www.loftsails.com/att/2009/Loftsails2009specifications.pdf

NotWal
QLD, 7430 posts
27 Sep 2009 2:49PM
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The other solution of course is to accumulate a collection of masts that are about 12% bend and only buy sails that fit that bend. Most do. Sadly NP is not one of them.

I second that about the ability of the Ezzies to take off spec masts. Even though their shape changes the battens always rotate and they always breath tolerably. Maybe there are other sails like that out there.

P.C_simpson
WA, 1490 posts
27 Sep 2009 2:20PM
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Yer i can rig 3 of my Severne Blades on the same size mast 5.0m, 5.3m and a 5.7m on a 430 Severne Redline RDM, easy, and they all rig perfect..

Leman
VIC, 672 posts
27 Sep 2009 8:40PM
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6.2 North Natural
5.3 North Voodoo
4.7 KA Khaos
4.5 KA Khaos
All on 430 mast and 160-210 boom.
45cm extention

Mark _australia
WA, 23436 posts
27 Sep 2009 10:02PM
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That 4.5 would be getting pretty far down the mast right? Perhpas a 20cm of so? I was talking ideal mast.....

FlickySpinny
WA, 657 posts
29 Sep 2009 11:17AM
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Of course, you can always go with the one-and-a-half mast concept courtesy of Ezzy. Their RDM masts can be bought in seperate bottom and top sections, so if you have a 430 mast and need to rig a big sail, you add a 430 bottom section to a 460 top section (takes the mast length to approx 445) and add a 30/40/50cm extension.

So Ezzy masts are not the cheapest things in the world, but I really rate them and reckon that it's going to be a long long time before I need to buy another mast.

More information: www.ezzy.com/masts/mast-overview/



GazMan
WA, 847 posts
30 Sep 2009 12:11AM
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FlickySpinny said...

Of course, you can always go with the one-and-a-half mast concept courtesy of Ezzy. Their RDM masts can be bought in seperate bottom and top sections, so if you have a 430 mast and need to rig a big sail, you add a 430 bottom section to a 460 top section (takes the mast length to approx 445) and add a 30/40/50cm extension.

So Ezzy masts are not the cheapest things in the world, but I really rate them and reckon that it's going to be a long long time before I need to buy another mast.

More information: www.ezzy.com/masts/mast-overview/


I had recently planned to buy one-and-a-half new Ezzy rdm's on a recent shopping trip to Perth but managed to pickup a 400 rdm as well as a 430 in almost new condition. The flexibility of being able to 'build' either a 400, 415 or 430 mast as well as slightly altering the bend curves for different brand sails really appeals to me, not to mention only having to replace a half section if you happen to break one (out of warranty period). According to Dave Ezzy, it's also possible to mix n' match shorter bottoms with much longer tops, i.e. like a 370 bottom with a 430 top, though you'd probably need to know a bit about how the bend curve changes to do this successfully.

Prior to getting the Ezzy rdm's, I have been mix n' matching NP X6 masts for quite a few years, being able to rig a 4.4 (NP with adjustable head), 4.7, 5.3 & 6.0 on 1 1/2 X6 masts. This link shows what can be done with these masts:
www.peterman.dk/windsurf-NP-X6-mast-study-780gb.htm

I really can't understand why other manufacturers apart from Ezzy don't embrace the concept of mixing and matching mast halves to reduce the amount of masts required as well as the somewhat high cost of updating to new rig components (especially when going from sdm to rdm or when changing to different brand sails with different mast requirements).

Three reasons that come to mind when I think of this lack of flexibility is:

SELL-SELL-SELL!!! (i.e. GREED-GREED-GREED!!!)

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
30 Sep 2009 12:23AM
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Mark _australia said...

That 4.5 would be getting pretty far down the mast right? Perhpas a 20cm of so? I was talking ideal mast.....

Depends on the year of the 4.5, a more recent example (06-09) would probably have a luff length around 400-410 whilst an earlier model (<00-05) luff would more than likely be longer and better suited to use on a 430 mast. I had an older pre-2000 Simmer wave that was a really nice handling sail with a luff around 430.

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
30 Sep 2009 12:59AM
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Gestalt said...

i run my KA kult's on one mast. 6.4, 5.8, 5,3 have for a few years now.

recently bought a 400 skinny so now can get 6.4 down to 3.7 on 2 masts.

the simmer addict (freeride) is a one mast fits all. 7.2 down to 4.8 on a 430 mast
neil pryde zen - 7.2 down to 4.9 on a 430 mast.

Hey Gestalt,

Have you had a chance to sail the 6.4 Kult with both sdm and rdm and if you've tried this, how different did the Kult handle/perform?

jh2703
NSW, 1223 posts
30 Sep 2009 8:16PM
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I run a combination of NP Alphas and Zens..all 09 sails. I've got the 5.4 and 6.2 Alphas and the 6.7 and 7.2 Zens and the 4 sails all rig on the one 430 mast and one boom. Untill i bought a 400 mast i also use to run a 4.7 and 5.0 Alpha on the 430 as well, I just had a head extension strap made up. I would not say the smaller sails performed at their peak on the 430 but they were usable.

nasty
WA, 153 posts
30 Sep 2009 6:53PM
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I run the following sails on a 400 powerex skinny:
4.0 north ice (2006 I think)
4.5 north duke (2006)
5.0 north ice (2007)
5.6 simmer icon (2008) (I used to have a 2007 5.7 ice before this)

Whilst the 4.0 and 5.6 don't rig perfectly I am pretty happy with it as a 4 sail/1 mast quiver. I think if I were to change anything I would look at getting the Ezzy masts so that I could have a 400 and a 415 mast.

Mark _australia
WA, 23436 posts
30 Sep 2009 8:33PM
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nasty said...

I run the following sails on a 400 powerex skinny:
4.0 north ice (2006 I think)
4.5 north duke (2006)
5.0 north ice (2007)
5.6 simmer icon (2008) (I used to have a 2007 5.7 ice before this)

Whilst the 4.0 and 5.6 don't rig perfectly I am pretty happy with it as a 4 sail/1 mast quiver. I think if I were to change anything I would look at getting the Ezzy masts so that I could have a 400 and a 415 mast.



That 5.6 must be pretty twisted off and gutless on a 400!!! Mine rigs sweet on a 430, the 5.3 is also cut for a 430, the next one down is 5.0 and that is designed for a 400.... so you are waaayyyy off manufacturers specs. I would think it pretty hard to use?



JEZ
WA, 395 posts
1 Oct 2009 1:23PM
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Hi Guys
FYI as this is relevant to the topic of what sails can be rigged on one mast.

The tushingham storms form 4.5 to 6.25 all rig on a 430cm mast, sdm or rdm.
The tushingham rocks from 4.5m to 6.0m all rig on a 430cm mast, sdm or rdm.
The tushingham t-bird 6.0 and 6.5m will also rig on a 430cm mast.
Cheers

pirrad
SA, 850 posts
1 Oct 2009 3:37PM
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all my sails rig on one mast 4.7,5.8,6.5,8.0,9.8 and one boom as well,4.7=400,5.8=430,6.5=460,8.0=490,9.8=510.booms4.7=hydro..........bla bla.......EDIT its raining today,I'm bored.

nasty
WA, 153 posts
1 Oct 2009 2:09PM
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Mark _australia said...


That 5.6 must be pretty twisted off and gutless on a 400!!! Mine rigs sweet on a 430, the 5.3 is also cut for a 430, the next one down is 5.0 and that is designed for a 400.... so you are waaayyyy off manufacturers specs. I would think it pretty hard to use?




The 5.6 doesn't rig perfectly but still has more guts than my old 5.7 ice. It works fine in waves - both front and backside. The only time it isn't great is when it's rotating at the end of gybes but that's probably partly my bad technique

Mark _australia
WA, 23436 posts
1 Oct 2009 5:26PM
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You must be lighter than me



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"2 sail sizes, with a gap, on one mast." started by evlPanda