Need a bit of newbie advice please before i purchase,
I've been foiling few times now, each time on same board , a ultrasonic 117, same sail, 6.5 twin cam, but demoing different foils, not sure which to buy yet.
I keep thinking the sling shot infinity 76 with 91 mast is the way to go, but now i've tried one i am not sure.
i've used moses vento 91, which i found it quite quick, but probably tad slower to get going than the fanatic flow,
a starboard alu freeride GT which seemed slower than the vento and less forgiving
a lokefoil, much the same
but with all of them I got into both straps and felt ok, although I found with the moses in particular my back leg really ached, was that maybe a stabiliser issue...? not sure its angle can be changed, website not clear
At the weekend I then tried the SS (but with short mast), and no leg ache but I couldn't get my back foot in the strap and felt more comfortable nearer the middle of the board, is this normal ? its probably the most freeride foil i've tried
It seems slower than the moses , but gets up earlier, how do you get more speed out of it ? I found on occasion it felt as though it was loosing lateral grip, maybe its called yaw, i am not sure, didn't feel like i was pushing it hard, is that normal ?
I managed to go upwind, down wind and across the wind no problem, even got round couple of gybes
Final question, does anyone use the SS with bigger sails? I was initially thinking use it with 5.3 or 6.5, but i also have 7.5 and 8.6 but i was wondering if they will quickly over power it.
I don't want to race but I don't want to feel slow either and the moses definitely seemed quickest
Any tips gratefully received, thanks,
(I weigh 87kg)
Not directly related to your question but...
Did you try the Vento 85? It's essentially the carbon version of the SS you are trying . Also, the SB Freeride, was that the 1100 wing? The 1100 definitely draggier than either the 1000/800. Glissattitude felt like the 800 almost had as much bottom end simply because it would slip through the water more easily.
Back to your question - bigger wings, like the i76 and all other things equal, will put more pressure under the front foot (more lift) and require less back leg pressure to stay level. Also, pushing on a shorter mast is also like pushing on a shorter fin. Less to push on so not surprising you felt it give a bit more especially at your size. The i76 is going to be draggier than the Moses because it's 50% bigger - like comparing a 30cm fin to a 45. The V91 is just going to slip through the water more easily since they are both similar, if not the same, basic design.
Hope this helps a bit.
Select to expand quotegimmesunshine said..
At the weekend I then tried the SS (but with short mast), and no leg ache but I couldn't get my back foot in the strap and felt more comfortable nearer the middle of the board, is this normal ? its probably the most freeride foil i've tried
It seems slower than the moses , but gets up earlier, how do you get more speed out of it ? I found on occasion it felt as though it was loosing lateral grip, maybe its called yaw, i am not sure, didn't feel like i was pushing it hard, is that normal ?
The shorter the mast, the more you have to watch flight height and backfoot pressure. The difference even between the 71 and 90 cm masts is surprisingly large. You'd probably find that the "lateral grip" issue disappears with a 90 cm mast.
The Infinity 76 is a freeride foil, and therefore slower than the racier foils you tried. Typical cruising speeds are around 15-18 knots, and top speeds around 20 knots. Pushing it further will be very hard to impossible. It's a great foil to learn and to play with swell and waves. If you want to go fast, look elsewhere. Fast guys on race-oriented foils routinely get 25 knots and more. That said, there are plenty of foilers who think the speed of the i76 is just fine. I'm using the Infinity 84, which is a couple of knots slower, and am perfectly happy to cruise around at about half of the speed I get on windsurf gear.
If you try different foils on the same board, keep in mind that they will not all be trimmed right. The distance between mast and front wing varies quite a bit. Slingshot setups tend to have the front wing a bit further back than others, and the Moses Vento foils look similar. That would explain that you needed more backfoot pressure.
Where in the world are you that you can all these different foils? Pretty cool that you can.
What Loke did you try? The loke LK1 with 1000 wing and big stab or 1200 wing and small stab is one of the most stable out there (not sponsored, sponsored by a different brand even just to be clear), and sounds like the perfect foil for you, just that you didnt like it?
Thanks for the replies. I tried the SB 1100 free ride. I thought i tried loke foil but was actually Exocet neo, that was ok, didn't feel as quick as Moses.
Think I'll try the ss with longer mast. I like future front wing options with S's, and would like to try wake foiling
Are the np glide and SB super cruiser similar performance but not really upgradeable?
My local shop are really good at demo when they have 'spare' kit in. (Poole harbour water sports)
Hi Gimmesunshine
Great that you can give the different foils a demo.
It really is the best thing to do, so you can feel the difference between them.
Look I had the same SB 117 when I started (and a old formula board). The 117 was actually great to use.
This with the standard Slingshot Hoverglide package. 76cm wing , 90cm mast (that I still use today, but with the Wizard 125)
I also have the Slingshot Ghostwisperer 101 full carbon (made at the time at the Moses factory)
The Ghostwisperer is very smooth and a touch faster than the Hoverglide.
It really depending on what you want to do with the foiling. If your happy to just cruse around with ok speed, then the full carbon is great.
If your style is bigger boards, with straps on the outside and bigger powerfull sails, then the carbon is better
If you want to use the smallest sails you can and have the most playful foil for carving, slow stall speed, easy jibing + have the option to add on other wing set up at a later stage, then the Hoverglide is great. It still cranks upwind with ease.
Having both foils above + other options, I have to say that I use the standard Hoverglide with 76cm all the time and the fun factor is still on the up :)
If you cross over to wake foiling, then the Hoverglide has all the options (placement of mast, tuttle or plate option, different mast lengths, different wings)
The front foot pressure you felt on the Hoveglide set up, is a good thing. The more you foil the more you will enjoy this balance and it also mean that you have some 'extra' lift for when the wind drops and you need to glide (as you can move the back foot back and keep the foil in flight )
Cheers
Jesper
Starboard GT-R set up is quick if you wanna race around. If you want to cruise more, then Slingshot have some good options like Jesper says above.
I posted this on another topic, but will add here.
Since you're on the fence with many types of systems, almost all foil sets have small variations from one another. Whatever you buy, go with a system that has modularity so you can adjust your ride accordingly.
Go with Starboard or Slingshot. Both companies make interchangeable parts, and that's important as you progress.
1. Price: The SB is a bit more expensive. Some deals can be had towards the end of the year. The slingshot system seems to be a bit cheaper, and toward the end of the season, seem to be even cheaper as shops are trying to clear this year's inventory.
2. Quality: From my observations, SB wins this category. With lots of carbon fibre, the layup is well done. I've run my system into underwater obstacles so many times I can't count. But only scratches exist, and I buff them out over the winter. Slingshot needs to do better in this area. I witnessed 2 Slingshot front wing snap at the bolt holes splitting parts of it in half. Last weekend, I saw two infinity wing delaminate at the leading edge! These were brand new and were not abused by any means.
3. Lift: The bigger wings will give you lots of lift. period. The slingshot infinities (76 and 84) will get you up earlier and with less sail power. But you'll be compromising speed. The SB 1100 wing setup in the 'free-ride' scenario requires a bit more speed or more sail to get into a flight. mostly due to the front wing size. To compare to the infinity's, you'd need to look at the SB super cruiser. During a session with another foiler that had the i76, I flew about the same time he did in the same wind using a bigger sail. we are about the same weight.
4. Speed: The 1100 will win this category hands down. These are high aspect foil wings and topping out at 20+kn has been a lot more fun than going slower with the larger infinitys
5. Maneuverability & gybing: The larger wings win this one. Gybing the 1100 takes a lot more speed and control. Because these are much faster, gybing becomes a little harder due to the fact you can be going faster than the wind is blowing on the downwind part. You sometimes have to push the sail around. The slower and higher lift foils allow for faster sail flips, and since you don't have as much sail to work with, less mass to flip it around.
6. Importance of options: Both companies offer interchangeable parts. In my opinion, this will start to eliminate the smaller, one-off foil sets you see for sale. I started with the GT foil set from SB. I quickly realized what affected what during a flight. I ended up adding the 115 fuse, 1100 front wing, 255 rear stab and the 110cm mast. I now have two complete foil sets. But the one I use 99% of the time now is my hybrid setup: 110cm mast, 115 fuse, 1100 front wing and the 255 stab. This, in my opinion, is the lightest wind setup you can create with SB set and still get fast with long reaches going. If the wind changes, I put on the 800 front wing for faster speeds. If I want more maneuverability, I switch to the GT setup. I AM planning on getting the super cruiser setup for goofing around with lower speeds and less sail. Slingshot (this year) finally figured out that the taller masts and longer fuses seemed to be what people were moving towards. Their systems seems a bit more stable this year, although the quality is still lacking.
7. Availability: Both systems seem to be what most shops have. however, the Slingshot system is producing more and are readily available. The SB system takes a long time to get an order fulfilled. I may have been on the forefront of getting the latest stuff, but it took 5 months to get the 1100 wing... but I think it was brand new at the time.
Summary: Stick with SB or Slingshot. don't go with 'other' many of my foiling friends are frustrated at their foil sets as they couldn't or can't buy optional parts. I love my SB system, and plan to get more parts (Supercruiser) so I can use the same masts I already own. The quality is awesome. However with the slingshot system, you can probably find a great deal out there. Too bad their quality is suffering, but this should be corrected now as they deal with warranties and R&D gets better.
So, if you want cheaper slow and stable foiling, stick with the Slingshot system. If you want most of the speed, modularity and higher quality, go with SB. But that said, I'd look at pairing the 1100 with the setup I have (pick your mast height) (essentially the Race Pro w/ the 1100 front wing).
I think there is minimal need for large sails with the SS system. Largest I have used is 5.7 with my 84 in very light winds. Not sure more sail would have helped. Most of the foilers I see with very large race sails tend to be running high aspect wings, perhaps they can take advantage of the added sail power. Also, Earlier it was mentioned that the infinity 76 compromises on speed which is true it is not the faster wing out there but I personally think its top speed is just fine. I have faster wings for sure, but I love the 76s ability to keep up during lulls
I would say that of all the wings i have (6 different SS wings) the 76 has the best combination of lift and speed, and as mentioned I am not desiring to go much faster than the 76's top speed. Currently, the only time i switch to a faster wing is when the wind is very strong, and I probably should be windsurfing then anyways.
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
I think there is minimal need for large sails with the SS system. Largest I have used is 5.7 with my 84 in very light winds. Not sure more sail would have helped. Most of the foilers I see with very large race sails tend to be running high aspect wings, perhaps they can take advantage of the added sail power. Also, Earlier it was mentioned that the infinity 76 compromises on speed which is true it is not the faster wing out there but I personally think its top speed is just fine. I have faster wings for sure, but I love the 76s ability to keep up during lulls
I would say that of all the wings i have (6 different SS wings) the 76 has the best combination of lift and speed, and as mentioned I am not desiring to go much faster than the 76's top speed. Currently, the only time i switch to a faster wing is when the wind is very strong, and I probably should be windsurfing then anyways.
Buddy of mine on i76 just bought an 8.2 flyer to add to his 5.7. He was flying on a day that he'd otherwise just spend watching me go back and forth. He'd already had way too many of those, thus the purchase. If you live in a true light wind location, worth looking at getting a bigger sail.
Foilers in Seattle combine the i84 with the Flyer 8.2 with excellent results. Seattle's average summer winds are 10-12 mph, and these foilers are out there flying all the time. Their boards are the bigger Slingshots, but the RF91 is also popular.
Was out today in flunky 5-10 kts on my 7.8 rs:one convertable sail and was foiling 80% of time, mostly just touching down for tacks(water was too cold for gybing practice). Was on a jp135 with SS i76 wing. I think its amazing how it can fly through lulls-and go so slow its like walking speed. But in the gusts it's plenty fast enough for me it's the only wing I have and I really haven't thought of getting another one yet. No wonder Wyatt calls it "the one".
A dedicated foil sail helps a lot but isn't really necessary as long as you have something with cams that has a deep profile to hold its shape in light wind. My foil sail looks like it's based off the V8(2 cams), which is my other favorite sail.
