When the wind picks up 5 knots past the top end range for my sail, I have to either sit it out or rig a smaller sail. Thinking of getting a smaller front wing for my AFS foil (F700 versus F800), anyone doing that? Wonder if the sail will still be too big for the wind.
I have both the F700 (779 cm2) and F800 (1120 cm2) wings for my AFS-2. You can go to sleep on the F800, but the F700 requires some conscious input to keep it going and maintain flight. I have tried changing wings to correct for underpowered or overpowered conditions. It kinda works, but changing the sail has been more effective. If I am under- or overpowered with the F700, I am still under- or overpowered with the F800.
Makes no difference when op'd on my 1220 wing......I'd be almost the same with my 600 wing, but going faster out of control.
Switch sail.
I'd switch sail, at a certain point wings are designed to be used with bigger sails instead of in bigger winds. For me around 800cm2 for a high aspect is the point below which de drawbacks start outweighting the advantages of rigging a smaller wing. I had a 650 speed/slalom wing, but it was very unstable with a wavesail and I never managed to go really fast with it.
To be honest, ride it out, on the foil you should be able to not only rig smaller than regular windsurfers, but I've found that with experience I can also rig bigger than most windsurfers and be alot more comfortable. (4.9 on the foil when gusting upto 35 knots, or 9.0 and racing kit when upto 30.)
Hey Sandman,
I'm coming from the opposite direction, having sailed the F700 so far. The F800 has arrived, but outside there is snow and no wind. As soon as I get the chance to try the wing, I'll let you know if I'll ever use the smaller one again.
Unless, of course, I fall asleep foiling and only wake up after I grind to a halt on the shore in some unknown remote place.
I'm eager to see what the difference in top speed is. AFS claim 24 knots for the F800 and 26 knots for the F700.
Havn't gone faster than 21 and find it scary already.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
I have both the F700 (779 cm2) and F800 (1120 cm2) wings for my AFS-2. You can go to sleep on the F800, but the F700 requires some conscious input to keep it going and maintain flight. I have tried changing wings to correct for underpowered or overpowered conditions. It kinda works, but changing the sail has been more effective. If I am under- or overpowered with the F700, I am still under- or overpowered with the F800.
good to know on the exact same wings, thanks
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Makes no difference when op'd on my 1220 wing......I'd be almost the same with my 600 wing, but going faster out of control.
Switch sail.
okay, thanks
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I'd switch sail, at a certain point wings are designed to be used with bigger sails instead of in bigger winds. For me around 800cm2 for a high aspect is the point below which de drawbacks start outweighting the advantages of rigging a smaller wing. I had a 650 speed/slalom wing, but it was very unstable with a wavesail and I never managed to go really fast with it.
To be honest, ride it out, on the foil you should be able to not only rig smaller than regular windsurfers, but I've found that with experience I can also rig bigger than most windsurfers and be alot more comfortable. (4.9 on the foil when gusting upto 35 knots, or 9.0 and racing kit when upto 30.)
okay, thanks, will try some of your suggestions.
Select to expand quoteZeeGerman said..
Hey Sandman,
I'm coming from the opposite direction, having sailed the F700 so far. The F800 has arrived, but outside there is snow and no wind. As soon as I get the chance to try the wing, I'll let you know if I'll ever use the smaller one again.
Unless, of course, I fall asleep foiling and only wake up after I grind to a halt on the shore in some unknown remote place.
I'm eager to see what the difference in top speed is. AFS claim 24 knots for the F800 and 26 knots for the F700.
Havn't gone faster than 21 and find it scary already.
ZeeGerman let me know when you do get to try the F800 and compare to the F700, is the F800 you just got the new 1080 cm2 or old 1120 cm2?, my F800 1120 cm2 is a great wing, but only one I have ever used!
I suppose it depends on the wind range if your wing. I have the super cruiser with 1700 and 1300 wings. Though I can use the 1700 comfortably up to 20kn, once the wind is consistently above 15 I much prefer to be on the smaller wing. Top speed is only about 1.5kn difference but it turns tighter and accelerates faster and is much more fun and responsive to ride. If they done an 800 or 900 wing I would get that for above 22kn. Changing down just the wing can enable you to sail a bit more over powered with the sail but if the wind is going to stay up change both. A bit of time on the beach can make for a much longer and more fun session on the water. 
sorry to hijack - but kind of related
my smallest sail is 4.7 on a 4.0 mast - i want to get a cheap 3.7 -4.0 sail for the higher winds
looks like i am going to need a 3.7 mast which I wanted to avoid - any suggestions ?
could i get an old sail and put on of those adjustable straps on - or maybe older bigger sail and get sail cut down ?
as I type this thinking that 3.7 mast be best option
Normster,
Start a new thread on this and then lets find a way to get the sail and mast makers to read it.
Select to expand quotenormster said..
sorry to hijack - but kind of related
my smallest sail is 4.7 on a 4.0 mast - i want to get a cheap 3.7 -4.0 sail for the higher winds
looks like i am going to need a 3.7 mast which I wanted to avoid - any suggestions ?
could i get an old sail and put on of those adjustable straps on - or maybe older bigger sail and get sail cut down ?
as I type this thinking that 3.7 mast be best option
I'd concur. Unless you get something more than 18-20 yrs old, you'll likely need a 370. I'd hesitate to rig a sail that small on a stiff sail while foiling. It'll feel like a board. As there are modern 4.7s that rig on 370s (e.g. Simmer Tricera, Blacktip), I think it'll be money well spent long term.
Select to expand quoteSwindy said..
I suppose it depends on the wind range if your wing. I have the super cruiser with 1700 and 1300 wings. Though I can use the 1700 comfortably up to 20kn, once the wind is consistently above 15 I much prefer to be on the smaller wing. Top speed is only about 1.5kn difference but it turns tighter and accelerates faster and is much more fun and responsive to ride. If they done an 800 or 900 wing I would get that for above 22kn. Changing down just the wing can enable you to sail a bit more over powered with the sail but if the wind is going to stay up change both. A bit of time on the beach can make for a much longer and more fun session on the water.
okay, the AFS wing I have is an F800 at 1120 cm2 so by your reckoning my F800 should be good for 15+, the F700 I was thinking of getting is 770cm2 so using same reasoning good for 22+.
Select to expand quotenormster said..
sorry to hijack - but kind of related
my smallest sail is 4.7 on a 4.0 mast - i want to get a cheap 3.7 -4.0 sail for the higher winds
looks like i am going to need a 3.7 mast which I wanted to avoid - any suggestions ?
could i get an old sail and put on of those adjustable straps on - or maybe older bigger sail and get sail cut down ?
as I type this thinking that 3.7 mast be best option
Aerotech makes smaller Freespeed sails with an adjustable head strap, I rig their 5.8 on a 460 with 14 cm of head strap, instead of a 430, and it works great in 18-22 knots, probably not as powerful with the stiffer 460, but rigs and handles great.
Hello,
depending sea conditions, I will change sail or wing, if it is super flat I will reduce sail and keep the big wing if it wavy I will switch front wing and a bit of mast track.
pas exemple in August I was riding on a spot with wind shadow on the first 200 m and gust at 30kts after and rough sea condition at first I76 (1534 cm2)and Volt 4,5 in the shadow I did need some pumping to start flying and after it was to much with gust.
back to shore did change for I65 (841 cm2)in the shadow not enough power to fly but after was perfect and 4,5 was giving me enough power to keep the board under control on the sub flying stage as with the 76cm width for the board if you have some side or 3/4 back wave it can flip you over if not enough power.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Swindy said..
I suppose it depends on the wind range if your wing. I have the super cruiser with 1700 and 1300 wings. Though I can use the 1700 comfortably up to 20kn, once the wind is consistently above 15 I much prefer to be on the smaller wing. Top speed is only about 1.5kn difference but it turns tighter and accelerates faster and is much more fun and responsive to ride. If they done an 800 or 900 wing I would get that for above 22kn. Changing down just the wing can enable you to sail a bit more over powered with the sail but if the wind is going to stay up change both. A bit of time on the beach can make for a much longer and more fun session on the water.
okay, the AFS wing I have is an F800 at 1120 cm2 so by your reckoning my F800 should be good for 15+, the F700 I was thinking of getting is 770cm2 so using same reasoning good for 22+.
Depends on the style of wing. The super cruiser wings are from the wave range and I only usually use a 6m or smaller. On the Starboard GTR with the 800 wing I can get going in 10-12 with a 7.8 and comfortably get the 550 wing going in 18kn with a 5.8. I don't know, but your wings are probably equivalent to the SB free ride wings which I believe are about 1100 and have no idea of its wind range.
So all I am saying is a smaller wing is more fun for turns and gybe's and get on it as soon as I can without having to pump too hard on the sail. There will be an overlap where you can use either wing but it will be down to your personal preference when you want to swap over. With both them wings you will have an awesome set up. 
Select to expand quoteSamkyo said..
Hello,
depending sea conditions, I will change sail or wing, if it is super flat I will reduce sail and keep the big wing if it wavy I will switch front wing and a bit of mast track.
pas exemple in August I was riding on a spot with wind shadow on the first 200 m and gust at 30kts after and rough sea condition at first I76 (1534 cm2)and Volt 4,5 in the shadow I did need some pumping to start flying and after it was to much with gust.
back to shore did change for I65 (841 cm2)in the shadow not enough power to fly but after was perfect and 4,5 was giving me enough power to keep the board under control on the sub flying stage as with the 76cm width for the board if you have some side or 3/4 back wave it can flip you over if not enough power.
good info., thanks
Select to expand quoteSwindy said..Sandman1221 said..Swindy said..
I suppose it depends on the wind range if your wing. I have the super cruiser with 1700 and 1300 wings. Though I can use the 1700 comfortably up to 20kn, once the wind is consistently above 15 I much prefer to be on the smaller wing. Top speed is only about 1.5kn difference but it turns tighter and accelerates faster and is much more fun and responsive to ride. If they done an 800 or 900 wing I would get that for above 22kn. Changing down just the wing can enable you to sail a bit more over powered with the sail but if the wind is going to stay up change both. A bit of time on the beach can make for a much longer and more fun session on the water.
okay, the AFS wing I have is an F800 at 1120 cm2 so by your reckoning my F800 should be good for 15+, the F700 I was thinking of getting is 770cm2 so using same reasoning good for 22+.
Depends on the style of wing. The super cruiser wings are from the wave range and I only usually use a 6m or smaller. On the Starboard GTR with the 800 wing I can get going in 10-12 with a 7.8 and comfortably get the 550 wing going in 18kn with a 5.8. I don't know, but your wings are probably equivalent to the SB free ride wings which I believe are about 1100 and have no idea of its wind range.
So all I am saying is a smaller wing is more fun for turns and gybe's and get on it as soon as I can without having to pump too hard on the sail. There will be an overlap where you can use either wing but it will be down to your personal preference when you want to swap over. With both them wings you will have an awesome set up.
okay, you put the F700 wing back on my wish list!, right now only source is from AFS and they want 100 euros to ship to US, will see if I can find one in the US first with free shipping.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
When the wind picks up 5 knots past the top end range for my sail, I have to either sit it out or rig a smaller sail. Thinking of getting a smaller front wing for my AFS foil (F700 versus F800), anyone doing that? Wonder if the sail will still be too big for the wind.
I don't want to define how many knots the wind needs to increase.
My standard Wing is the Slingshot Infinity 76.
I completed it with Infinity 65 Wing.
In our gusty conditions it can happen fastly that the wind increases a lot and then I would need to rig a smaller sail.
Depending on the sail I need to unrigg then also my previous sail. To much time lost.
To have to sails rigged to much stuff needed.
Have 1 Board, 2 masts (370 and 400), 1 boom, 3 sails from 3,7 to 5,6 and 90 kg driver weight.
The change of the wing is done in 2 minutes, rigging needs much more time and efforts.
Also the smaller wing make lot of fun in moves and jumping. So for me the perfect set up with a smaller wing instead of changing the sail.
Easiest cure for a 5 knot increase in wind is to go hard upwind as high as you want to go, then QUICKLY turn deep downwind either riding the windswell or hopping over each windswell you overtake.
Basically changing from sailing mostly across the wind to sailing very high upwind and very deep downwind.
Of course, there are limits mostly sailor skill and less , eq related.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
Check Sailworks. I think they still have the F700 (and F800, too) wings.
Yeah, did, they only have the F700s which is rated intermediate-expert and in the 600 cm2 range. Hard to find AFS foils now in US, dealer I got mine from said the shipping costs were taking away his profit so he stoped carrying them.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Swindy said..Sandman1221 said..Swindy said..
I suppose it depends on the wind range if your wing. I have the super cruiser with 1700 and 1300 wings. Though I can use the 1700 comfortably up to 20kn, once the wind is consistently above 15 I much prefer to be on the smaller wing. Top speed is only about 1.5kn difference but it turns tighter and accelerates faster and is much more fun and responsive to ride. If they done an 800 or 900 wing I would get that for above 22kn. Changing down just the wing can enable you to sail a bit more over powered with the sail but if the wind is going to stay up change both. A bit of time on the beach can make for a much longer and more fun session on the water.
okay, the AFS wing I have is an F800 at 1120 cm2 so by your reckoning my F800 should be good for 15+, the F700 I was thinking of getting is 770cm2 so using same reasoning good for 22+.
Depends on the style of wing. The super cruiser wings are from the wave range and I only usually use a 6m or smaller. On the Starboard GTR with the 800 wing I can get going in 10-12 with a 7.8 and comfortably get the 550 wing going in 18kn with a 5.8. I don't know, but your wings are probably equivalent to the SB free ride wings which I believe are about 1100 and have no idea of its wind range.
So all I am saying is a smaller wing is more fun for turns and gybe's and get on it as soon as I can without having to pump too hard on the sail. There will be an overlap where you can use either wing but it will be down to your personal preference when you want to swap over. With both them wings you will have an awesome set up.
okay, you put the F700 wing back on my wish list!, right now only source is from AFS and they want 100 euros to ship to US, will see if I can find one in the US first with free shipping.
100euro, that's a rip off.
I had a great session today on the 1300 and a 5.4. I could have easily been on the 1700 and a 4.7 but it would have been a bit mundane. The 4.7 would have got me going on the 1300 but with too much pumping for my liking. Even though I don't go for speed on the super cruiser I cracked 23kn on it for the first time today and 3 alphas over 19kn which I am getting regularly now. If SB don't start making smaller wings like an 8 or 900 (for the super cruiser) by next year I will change brands. Can't afford to change ATM.
Hey Sand, yeah, I checked also. Sailworks has the F700s, but not the F700 anymore. Too bad. A thing to consider. The F700s provides more of a surface area gap from the F800. That might not be a bad thing, but you likely have to really pay attention to keep the F700s moving.
Several guys in Seattle got the AFS-85 all-carbon foils from Sailworks. They are keeping them....
Hey LeeD, what you described is what we used to call "hiding from the wind" in formula racing.
You got me!
Never a successful racer, always looking for speed and comfort over shortening distance and positioning.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
Hey Sand, yeah, I checked also. Sailworks has the F700s, but not the F700 anymore. Too bad. A thing to consider. The F700s provides more of a surface area gap from the F800. That might not be a bad thing, but you likely have to really pay attention to keep the F700s moving.
Several guys in Seattle got the AFS-85 all-carbon foils from Sailworks. They are keeping them....
Hey LeeD, what you described is what we used to call "hiding from the wind" in formula racing.
yeah, Dale from Sailworks is looking for a F700 for me, looks like they are also waiting to see what AFS does for distributors in the coming year. Worst case I pay the 100 euros, but not in a hurry so will see if one turns up.
Select to expand quoteSwindy said..
100euro, that's a rip off.
It may be the freight company rate by default in their shopping cart. I'd contact them directly. I used to get wings from Horue shipped by postal service for about 50euro, iirc. Took about a couple of weeks.
OTOH, getting a sail from France/Germany to the US can be absurdly expensive - 250 euro. There aren't that many brands distributed here.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..Swindy said..
100euro, that's a rip off.
It may be the freight company rate by default in their shopping cart. I'd contact them directly. I used to get wings from Horue shipped by postal service for about 50euro, iirc. Took about a couple of weeks.
OTOH, getting a sail from France/Germany to the US can be absurdly expensive - 250 euro. There aren't that many brands distributed here.
Times are different. Since the beginning of 2020, international shipping rates have gone up a lot. Prior to 2020, I purchased items from Europe to USA and wasn't too bad. Now I got a few quotes for some goods (both located in France) and it is no longer feasible.
If Bruce & Brit don't have anything in the AFS, last resort is Andy with Wind NC. He used to carry some stuff. GL
Select to expand quotePaducah said..Swindy said..
100euro, that's a rip off.
It may be the freight company rate by default in their shopping cart. I'd contact them directly. I used to get wings from Horue shipped by postal service for about 50euro, iirc. Took about a couple of weeks.
OTOH, getting a sail from France/Germany to the US can be absurdly expensive - 250 euro. There aren't that many brands distributed here.
I checked with AFS, 100 euros for the wing, 300 for a board which seems like a deal in comparison. Put their new 95 cm mast foil with the big slalom wing in the shopping cart to see, 1600 euros for the foil-good price, but then 400 euros to ship by air (only option) to US!, did not check with AFS about it because I am afraid if they say, no the foil shipping is 100 euros like the wing, that I will want to buy one!
