I bet some of these wing foil boards could make some really fun little freeride windfoil boards just need a mast track. Other then the foil box being moved foward a bit(Balz Muller new school style) is there any reason why manufacturers don't put in a mast track for a sail making it a dual purpose board like a smaller slingshot shred sled or are wingboards made much weaker then windfoil boards or is the geometry just way off. The Fanatic skywing 5'6 105L is a similar size to the board I'm trying to build. As winging is catching on fast and as the technology rapidly improves is windfoil board R&D being left behind, should we be taking notes from some of the wing board designs?
I recently acquired a 21 Tabou pocket air 5'8" 97l which has a small track, have winged on it but yet to try for windfoiling. I notice that for 22 models track is gone.
tabou-boards.com/media/archive/products-2021/pocket-air-21/
slingshot wizard v3 and freestyle v2 should be good for both, they have track mount for the foil , mast track for sail, as well as inboard straps for winging
Last year I got Tabou Pocket Air 6'2" for windfoiling and wingfoiling. I missed outbound straps and in time cracked on the deck, but not under the feet. Returned it and take Patrik AIO 5'9". Very happy with it: great construction, multiple footstrap positions, I use it also with slalom foil. So it is really All in One board.
Not much of a maket. I doubt there are more than a handful of rider that would handle such board. Unlikely uphauling, waterstart can be tricky (I had to adapt with my 1.7m long board). Existing hybrid are longer as they are designed as transition kit to attrack windfoiler or sup foiler to winging.
Custom made is the way to get such gear, so keep on making experimentation...
I've asked myself that question, but always come to the following conclusion: it'd be a jack of all trades, master of none.
here's why:
as a wing board it would likely be too long, but for windfoil to short. Even if you try to find a suitable balance (say 160cm), you'd be able to get up on foil in about the same wind. I think very little people are looking for a 2-in-1 that serves in exactly the same conditions.
Construction issues are certainly a factor nowadays (especially the fanatic sky wing is apparently very poor)
some features would be odd: a tailkick, domed deck, a masttrack that adds 300-500gr, having to move footstraps constantly (having the extra 250gr that comes with all the options), maybe wrong foil track placement, also the mastfoot pressure would change the entry point of the water on the rocker and maybe affect it badly.
it's not impossible, i learned to foil on a pocket windfoil board I made and that worked for the first few sessions. After a while you start looking for performance and need a smaller board.
if I ever buy a sup foil board (something like 195cm for 120l), then I'd like to experiment by putting in a mast track.
Select to expand quotepowersloshin said..
slingshot wizard v3 and freestyle v2 should be good for both, they have track mount for the foil , mast track for sail, as well as inboard straps for winging
Unfortunately I need deep Tuttle. Kinda wish slingshot came out with more sizes in there new wizard range. The 3 sizes 130L to 114L to 90L. It's a big jump. Especially the 5'10 114L to 5' 90L board. Could probably get on ok on the 90L but don't want to give up that much light wind performance as my wizard 105 is pretty efficient, something thicker in the tail(5") and 5'5 long similar to a horue femto giving the same volume as the wizard 114L, maybe that's there plan for next year. Fanatic and maybe other wing lines has 6 different sizes in there sky wing range of boards from 5'-6'2.
Select to expand quoteNicoDC said..
I've asked myself that question, but always come to the following conclusion: it'd be a jack of all trades, master of none.
here's why:
as a wing board it would likely be too long, but for windfoil to short. Even if you try to find a suitable balance (say 160cm), you'd be able to get up on foil in about the same wind. I think very little people are looking for a 2-in-1 that serves in exactly the same conditions.
Construction issues are certainly a factor nowadays (especially the fanatic sky wing is apparently very poor)
some features would be odd: a tailkick, domed deck, a masttrack that adds 300-500gr, having to move footstraps constantly (having the extra 250gr that comes with all the options), maybe wrong foil track placement, also the mastfoot pressure would change the entry point of the water on the rocker and maybe affect it badly.
it's not impossible, i learned to foil on a pocket windfoil board I made and that worked for the first few sessions. After a while you start looking for performance and need a smaller board.
if I ever buy a sup foil board (something like 195cm for 120l), then I'd like to experiment by putting in a mast track.
Good points, I agree with what your saying. definitely not looking for a 2 in 1 right now all windfoiling. I feel like we are just scraping the surface with windfoil board shapes, they can definitely get more efficient and get more compact. Under 12kts is where you would really see the performance tested with bottom shapes and weight distribution so the rider can pump most effectively, etc. In 20kts mostly anything will work, the good freeride foils can basically lift without much forward momentum.
Still designing my board not much time for building these days with work and good winds all month, nice problems to have
^My experience with a board that could do both was the Wizard 114. I've seen a couple people in person windfoiling it extremely well. It was just too light in volume for me to take out except in flat water. Spots with shorebreak/swells or current were too difficult for me to shlog reliably in light wind.
For winging it felt good but I'm not experienced enough with winging to say anything other than that. I spent 90% of my time on that board winging it, with swells and shorebreak and all that and it was much easier than trying to uphaul it. The few times I had it flying it felt really light and great underfoot but I just didn't get enough conditions where it was suitable so I switched to a higher volume non-winging board as I usually don't want to wing anyway.
There's a guy here that rides that same board with a new phantasm HA and just shreds the swells, but he's ~165lbs and I'm ~195. Haven't seen many other people winging it, those guys are on 85-95l boards and are now hardly ever touching water if there's wind. It seems like a board good for anything other than a winging newbie that would also be usable in most conditions for windfoiling would really be big for an intermediate winger.
Select to expand quoteCAN17 said..NicoDC said..
I've asked myself that question, but always come to the following conclusion: it'd be a jack of all trades, master of none.
here's why:
as a wing board it would likely be too long, but for windfoil to short. Even if you try to find a suitable balance (say 160cm), you'd be able to get up on foil in about the same wind. I think very little people are looking for a 2-in-1 that serves in exactly the same conditions.
Construction issues are certainly a factor nowadays (especially the fanatic sky wing is apparently very poor)
some features would be odd: a tailkick, domed deck, a masttrack that adds 300-500gr, having to move footstraps constantly (having the extra 250gr that comes with all the options), maybe wrong foil track placement, also the mastfoot pressure would change the entry point of the water on the rocker and maybe affect it badly.
it's not impossible, i learned to foil on a pocket windfoil board I made and that worked for the first few sessions. After a while you start looking for performance and need a smaller board.
if I ever buy a sup foil board (something like 195cm for 120l), then I'd like to experiment by putting in a mast track.
Good points, I agree with what your saying. definitely not looking for a 2 in 1 right now all windfoiling. I feel like we are just scraping the surface with windfoil board shapes, they can definitely get more efficient and get more compact. Under 12kts is where you would really see the performance tested with bottom shapes and weight distribution so the rider can pump most effectively, etc. In 20kts mostly anything will work, the good freeride foils can basically lift without much forward momentum.
Still designing my board not much time for building these days with work and good winds all month, nice problems to have
True that regarding freeride/wave/freeride windfoil.
race is of course a different story.
As Balz would say "the sport is only in its pampers".
if you look at the boards in that video (mb, starboard, severne,..) it becomes even more obvious that there's still a lot to discover before having the perfect board.however, length and width are essential in the low end. You need planing flat, it's as simple as that. With winging you pump yourself up towards the sky, windfoil is just straight forward to gain speed.
currently very happy with the 180x65x13.5cm board, but the central footstraps are costing low end. I've been designing a board with the same rocker and length but 75cm wide. This should help to get more leverage over the foil and allow leg pumping to get up quicker + more power in flight to keep the glide. Outboard frontstraps and maybe a central backstrap Would be perfect for performance freeride and wave use + basic jumps. Absolutely no chance it will ever serve as a wing board
They are still figuring out what works in wing boards so it is likely we can learn something from their designs. 2 in 1s are a niche market and current trends in wing foil and wind foil boards are different (mostley literage but also strap placement relative to foil track). Not too mention that wing board construction is generally less beefy than windfoil boards so anyone starting out will be comparing 2 in 1 prices to wing board prices.
2-in-1 without changing straps and with the same foil fuselage I think not. But with a change in fuselage I think a compact geometry board could be used for light weight and winging and higher wind windfoiling.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
2-in-1 without changing straps and with the same foil fuselage I think not. But with a change in fuselage I think a compact geometry board could be used for light weight and winging and higher wind windfoiling.
the trick to not needing to change straps is a super long foil track.
In the Fanatic line, I'd like know what people think about the new Stingray that is, I believe, targeted for both wingfoiling and windfoiling.
Select to expand quoteNicoDC said..
True that regarding freeride/wave/freeride windfoil.
race is of course a different story.
As Balz would say "the sport is only in its pampers".
if you look at the boards in that video (mb, starboard, severne,..) it becomes even more obvious that there's still a lot to discover before having the perfect board.however, length and width are essential in the low end. You need planing flat, it's as simple as that. With winging you pump yourself up towards the sky, windfoil is just straight forward to gain speed.
currently very happy with the 180x65x13.5cm board, but the central footstraps are costing low end. I've been designing a board with the same rocker and length but 75cm wide. This should help to get more leverage over the foil and allow leg pumping to get up quicker + more power in flight to keep the glide. Outboard frontstraps and maybe a central backstrap Would be perfect for performance freeride and wave use + basic jumps. Absolutely no chance it will ever serve as a wing board
Did the new wizards try to improve glide by going narrower and parallel rails? Glide also comes from length which is useless once on foil.
At what point would the thickness of the board make it too corky. For the additional volume that a 1" thicker board adds I think it gives more upside making you sit a bit higher in the water. Halving big square rails like a formula board and flat. The less chimed rails the more efficient biggest planing surface for the board but more prone to not bouncing back up on touchdowns. I think its important to have the widest part of the board around the foot straps as opposed to the mast track on my older wizard. My rough board design basically moves the mast track back 5" which is how much length I am taking off the total board length(166cm) making the nose have about the same distance I front of the sail just more of a compact shape. I think it was a good idea that the wizard v3 moved the mast track back as on my v3 I never go further then half way on my uj. Haven't even mentioned cutouts yet. The idea for windsurfing is to reduce the wetted surface once planing reducing drag not needed for foiling I think although Tony Lagosz has a very interesting proto on Instagram where like half the board is stepped cutouts. Wing boards used to have the angled tail that was supposed to allow you to rock the board back easier to release the board from the water but suposildy creates more of a suction effect then 90 degree tails.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
In the Fanatic line, I'd like know what people think about the new Stingray that is, I believe, targeted for both wingfoiling and windfoiling.
I have the Stingray 115 LTD and I use it for both wind and wing foiling. I'm happy with the board, but I don't use foot straps for winging and if I did I'd have to be switching the positions back and forth I think. The 115 has a width of 70 cm which is only slightly narrower than an imaginary Sky Wing 115 would be. It has the smooth bottom shape and accelerates to foil very easily. Very happy with the board.
I think I might dispute your verbiage slightly. I think the board is targeted for free ride wind foiling but can wing. After I get better at winging I will probably buy a dedicated wing board because of the strap issue. Even if I never use straps for winging I do use them for windfoil and dislike putting them on and off.
Feel free to ask questions.
Hello
I know it's a difficult question but apart from the smaller distance from UJ to foil mast, is there any other important difference between an small windfoiling board and a big wing board compared in terms of windfoiling use?
For example Tabou has a 70%-30% wind-wingfoiling board like the Magic carpet and a wingfoiling board like the Pocket air 2021 with sail track. Could I suppose at similar volume and length that the pocket air 117 2021 would take off worse in light winds than the magic carpet 120? The uphauiling would also be more difficult?
Thanks.
