My 50-kg (110 lb) 18-year-old daughter's fast become a strong foiler with near-flawless flying jibes. But in the gusty high winds of the Columbia River Gorge, her ragged old '94 Hot Sails Gridlock 2.5 is holding her back. We're looking for a better 2.5, but are finding options thin.
I actually know of only two-- the new Sailworks Revo 2.5 and the Goya Scion 2.5, a Fringe-inspired youth sail. But I've never seen or sailed either.
Does anyone have solid experience with these or other good alternatives for gusty high-wind foiling?
Thanks,
Evan Goldstein
Seattle, USA
.
Select to expand quoteEvango said..
My 50-kg (110 lb) 18-year-old daughter's fast become a strong foiler with near-flawless flying jibes. But in the gusty high winds of the Columbia River Gorge, her ragged old '94 Hot Sails Gridlock 2.5 is holding her back. We're looking for a better 2.5, but are finding options thin.
I actually know of only two-- the new Sailworks Revo 2.5 and the Goya Scion 2.5, a Fringe-inspired youth sail. But I've never seen or sailed either.
Does anyone have solid experience with these or other good alternatives for gusty high-wind foiling?
Thanks,
Evan Goldstein
Seattle, USA
.
High wind windfoiling is awesome. I have had lots fun on my 3.5m in 25 and 30kts, I'm 65kg. But have recently acquired a 3.0 naish force and 340 mast to hopefully bring that wind limit even higher. I find It is hard to find smaller sails under 3.5m, wish there were more available!
What front wings and board is your daughter using?
For strong wind, my favorite sail is a naish chopper XS which is probably around 3.2m. To my point of view, it is way more confortable than my 3.5 RRD vogue probably for its low aspect and relatively long boom. Also switched for a shorter (softer) mast. In france, For smaller than that, I would probably go for a Teiva swart (propably available worldwide via Horue). It is almost made to the request (I am sure that you can request directly to TeivaSail for custom made. )
But why look further than sailworks since you are so close...
I had a 3.0 (S2Maui Dragon) for high wind foiling, but the problem is these sails arent designed for the light winds they're being used in for foiling. Too stiff to pump efficiently even for my 93Kg's. I have 3.8 as smallest size now and its a lot better because its less stiff. The upper range of both sails is similar for me, but I can get going with 3.8 in 16-18 knots, where 3.0 needed at least 24. I expected 3.0 to be usable for 20 knots up but it wasnt.
If her weight is only 50kg I'd really recomend to get a dedicated foiling sail because of the profile stiffness, a wavesail would be way way too stiff for her. Maybe one of those kids rigs might do the trick. Teiva / Horue sails go really small & are specially designed to be used foiling!
www.teivasails.fr/windfoil/
Learning rigs work great for foiling, especially the 2.5 and 3.6 sizing. Durable, light, soft, rangy.
These sails looks pretty fun, not going to lie.
www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hotsailsmaui.com/tech/microfreak/&ved=2ahUKEwik246SyL3wAhUWVc0KHbOQDd8QFjADegQICxAC&usg=AOvVaw3RalUJBUnNMS8sLGC5eK67
www.instagram.com/p/COIz7t0rE-I/?igshid=1tu6r5hagxjny
What abaout the Duotone Now?
www.duotonesports.com/windsurfing/sails/now/
From what I read, they should be a viable option.
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Kids sails look cheap and awesome, is boom height an issue?
Definitely not ideal if you are tall. I used my daughters 3.0 Severne XS-3 in January on a day with 30 knts. The sail rigs on a 300 mast. Even with the boom at the highest position it felt a bit low. That said I might try again with a 36cm extension even a 370 mast.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..swoosh said..
Kids sails look cheap and awesome, is boom height an issue?
Definitely not ideal if you are tall. I used my daughters 3.0 Severne XS-3 in January on a day with 30 knts. The sail rigs on a 300 mast. Even with the boom at the highest position it felt a bit low. That said I might try again with a 36cm extension even a 370 mast.
If you're tall some wavesails are already problematic in my experience (194cm). Especially for foiling where I run the boom another 10cm higher than for fin.
If your daughter is around 160cm tall she'd be fine, above 165cm I think it might start feeling small.
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..
Hot Sails Maui has some really small sails too.
MIcro KS3 would be sweet I bet. I have the adult KS3 - 3.1 & can rig it on a 310SL carbon(or 340). On the 310 it is not too stiff at all IMHO...
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..excav8ter said..
Hot Sails Maui has some really small sails too.
MIcro KS3 would be sweet I bet. I have the adult KS3 - 3.1 & can rig it on a 310SL carbon(or 340). On the 310 it is not too stiff at all IMHO...
I believe a 310 mast would change a lot, should look into that! My 3.0's luff was 336 or so, so should work fine!
Patrik make a kids range called Micro. My daughter has one for next summer 3.2. Proper sail too well built. Ill take a pix if you're interested
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..
Patrik make a kids range called Micro. My daughter has one for next summer 3.2. Proper sail too well built. Ill take a pix if you're interested
Thanks to all who generously sent thoughts.
I asked around more broadly elsewhere, generating the following list of options.
Sub-3.0 High-wind adult-focused sails:
Northwave Surflite (2.3, 2.5, 2.8)
northwavesails.com/surflite/
Sailworks Revolution (there's a new 2.5)
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/2021-sails/revolution.html
Duotone Now (2.4, 2.8)
www.duotonesports.com/windsurfing/sails/now/
Goya Fringe Pro and Fringe X Pro (2.8)
goyawindsurfing.com/sails/y2020/fringe-pro/
Sub-3.0 High-wind adult sails designed for foils:
Teivasails Swart (1.5, 2.0, 2.5)
www.teivasails.fr/windfoil/?utm_source=seabreeze.com.au
Sub-3.0 youth sails with apparent adult high-wind foiling potential:
Severne Redback and XS-3
www.severnesails.com/sails/redback/
Sailworks Ripper
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/2021-sails/ripper.html
Goya Scion
goyawindsurfing.com/sails/y2020/scion-x-pro/
Hotsails Micro-KS3
www.hotsailsmaui.com/tech/microks3/ Patrik 3-Micropatrik-windsurf.com/sails/
Actual testimonials were scant, though:
The sub-3.0 adult sails above are mostly pretty well-known, and have been widely used on foils.
No one offered first-hand experience with the Teiva foil-specific tiny sails.
Many expressed curiosity about kids' sails for high-wind foiling, but only three first-hand experiences materialized.
1. Several love their Hot KS3s so much they're sure, without actual evidence yet, that Micro-KS3s will be similarly awesome.
2. My kid, when small, learned to windsurf on Sailworks Rippers, including ripping the Gorge in 20-25 kts and planing through jibes. Despite low tension, the Rippers, especially the 2.5, exhibit impressive dynamic response under load, much like stable, tuned adult sails. I think they're promising for adult high-wind foiling, but haven't actually tried them (cause ours are now mast-less).
3. There's one actual solid piece of testimony. One of the Columbia Gorge's best foilers, a Goya team-rider usually on Fringes, sometimes gets blown in 25+ onto a Scion 2.5 youth sail-which fact is only evident to onlookers if you look at the writing on the sail. So despite its fairly straight luff curve, the Scion clearly works well in gusty high wind.
By the way, a few noted that for riders taller than 160 cm, the low boom cut-outs of youth sails can be an issue.
Apart from that, there appears to be high-wind potential in stealing from your kids.
Thanks to all who replied.
Evan Goldstein
Seattle, USA
I forgot to mention the Neil Pryde that might fit in the category of
Sub-3.0 youth sails with apparent adult high-wind foiling potential:
The Neil Pryde Dragonfly might be usable here, it even sits in my carport but hasn't been used, neither by my sub 30 kilo daughter for the intended purpose nor by me for highwind foiling. It replaces a very light F2 kids sail that has had it after my kids tortured it for a few years and the Pryde looks much more durable than the floppy old monofilm thing..
I found this rig in my own search for a small sail. I wonder how it would work? I like the price...
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..
I found this rig in my own search for a small sail. I wonder how it would work? I like the price...
I am getting more and more fascinated of using small sails. In the search for one I also found the DRAGONFLY 3.0. Up to now my sail quiver is Sailworks Flyer 7.0; NP The Fly 5.1, NP Zone 4.0 and I am missing one for stronger winds (and to goof around). Could the DRAGONFLY 3.0 work? Or is the mast sleeve way too low as I am 184 cm (6 feet) tall? Thanks a lot for the reply!
Adjust sleeve height by raising sail....longer mast.
You don't close the gap when foiling.
I use Sailworks Flyers (4.5, 5.2, 6.0 and 7.0) from 0 to about 22 knots. From 22 knots on I use Sailworks Revolutions (3.7, 3.0 and 2.5). The Revolutions are new and I've only used the 3.7 so far and it was really nice. Not sure what wind strength I'll need to get on the 3 and 2.5 but it'll have to be close to gale force winds (especially for the 2.5). They seem really well made with strong materials -- Gorge made for the Gorge.
