Anyone else out there who got tarsal tunnel syndrome from foiling? I recently developed issues with "needles and pins" tingling in my right foot, which was most noticeable when trying to go to sleep, at times keeping me awake. My usual strategy of just ignoring it did not work this time, it got worse rather than better, especially after longer foil sessions.
I've had similar issues in a left hand before, which a doctor misdiagnosed as vitamin B12 deficiency (probably because I'm vegetarian). I eventually realized that is was carpal tunnel, which made fixing it easy (mostly with exercises). Rather than going to the doctor this time, I went straight to internet research. Plenty of sites out there that give 7-15 different possible causes, including stroke, but tarsal tunnel syndrome seems most likely. For example, the "triple compression stress test" (link below) is positive, and recommended stretches lead to improvement right away.
I'm curious if anyone else had similar issues after foiling. Overall, foiling seems much less stressful to hips, knees, and other body parts that start to hurt as we age, but this may just be an exception. It probably does not help that I usually sit in front of a computer all day, and that the ankle had a sports injury in the past.
Test:
Not me, makes me wonder if you are not balanced in-flight and having to keep constant pressure on either front or rear foot. Locking up a complex joint for long periods of time is never good. Agree, B12 is good for things like that, if you are balanced in-flight, try doubling your B12 dose, like 1000 mg to 2000 mg and take the two doses at least 8 hr apart.
I get tingles in the feet when out sailing but not ashore. It happens when I beat upwind for extended times.
When I started back into windsurfing a few years ago I had a really bad case of planter facitis. Windsurf foiling cured it!
I am a desk jockey to and have dealt with carpel tunnel a few times over the years.
I hope you get that sorted and can keep foiling!
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Not me, makes me wonder if you are not balanced in-flight and having to keep constant pressure on either front or rear foot. Locking up a complex joint for long periods of time is never good. Agree, B12 is good for things like that, if you are balanced in-flight, try doubling your B12 dose, like 1000 mg to 2000 mg and take the two doses at least 8 hr apart.
It's not locking up the joint, quite the opposite. I often foil in 2-3 ft swell with a 71 cm mast, generally with an i84. Not crashing requires a lot of leg movement and balancing. It's quite common for waves to push the foil up by a couple of feet in a second. The ones coming from the back at an angle are worst.
As I said, the B12 deficiency was a misdiagnosis. B12 did nothing for my carpal tunnel, even when I got blood levels up to the high end of the range. More B12 was my first idea this time, too, but again, it did nothing.Select to expand quoteutcminusfour said..
I hope you get that sorted and can keep foiling!
It's pretty much sorted out already. Once I realized what it was, the right stretches brought almost immediate relief. I've see the same with carpal tunnel and with elbow tendonitis; my wife also had a similar experience with upper harmstring tendonitis (also self-diagnosed, after several doctors did not come up with the right diagnosis, and cortisone shots helped only temporary). In each case, eccentric stretches are key. Of the stretches in the video I posted, lifting up on your toes and then slowly lowering seems to have the largest impact. I do this on stairs to get a larger range of motion. I do the other stretches, too, of course, especially the initial warmup stretches.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..Sandman1221 said..
Not me, makes me wonder if you are not balanced in-flight and having to keep constant pressure on either front or rear foot. Locking up a complex joint for long periods of time is never good. Agree, B12 is good for things like that, if you are balanced in-flight, try doubling your B12 dose, like 1000 mg to 2000 mg and take the two doses at least 8 hr apart.
It's not locking up the joint, quite the opposite. I often foil in 2-3 ft swell with a 71 cm mast, generally with an i84. Not crashing requires a lot of leg movement and balancing. It's quite common for waves to push the foil up by a couple of feet in a second. The ones coming from the back at an angle are worst.
As I said, the B12 deficiency was a misdiagnosis. B12 did nothing for my carpal tunnel, even when I got blood levels up to the high end of the range. More B12 was my first idea this time, too, but again, it did nothing.utcminusfour said..
I hope you get that sorted and can keep foiling!
It's pretty much sorted out already. Once I realized what it was, the right stretches brought almost immediate relief. I've see the same with carpal tunnel and with elbow tendonitis; my wife also had a similar experience with upper harmstring tendonitis (also self-diagnosed, after several doctors did not come up with the right diagnosis, and cortisone shots helped only temporary). In each case, eccentric stretches are key. Of the stretches in the video I posted, lifting up on your toes and then slowly lowering seems to have the largest impact. I do this on stairs to get a larger range of motion. I do the other stretches, too, of course, especially the initial warmup stretches.
So it sounds like you are not balanced in-flight due to the swells, and constantly applying front or rear foot pressure which leads to overuse and straining of the ankle joints.
With my AFS W95 foil and either F1080 or F770 wing the swells do not interact with the wing/foil so I am balanced with equal front/rear foot pressure so not constantly straining my joints to adjust foot pressure. That is one of the reasons I went with the AFS foil, since I knew I would be in 1-3' swells out on the Gulf of Mexico, I just fly over/across the swell with zero interaction, its a trip!, just have to remember the swell is there when you touch down.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
With my AFS W95 foil and either F1080 or F770 wing the swells do not interact with the wing/foil so I am balanced with equal front/rear foot pressure so not constantly straining my joints to adjust foot pressure. That is one of the reasons I went with the AFS foil, since I knew I would be in 1-3' swells out on the Gulf of Mexico, I just fly over/across the swell with zero interaction, its a trip!, just have to remember the swell is there when you touch down.
Swell is not the same everywhere. Kalmus is well known for the "voodoo chop" (which is fortunately limited to small-ish areas, mostly after ferry traffic). The regular swell and chop we're getting can be a bit challenging, too. Just recently, a foil racer from Florida visited, and commented on how difficult the swell made the jibing. That was on a lighter day, with relatively small chop.
I just took my new Starboard GT-R plus (800/300/85) out for the first time yesterday. Going out, straight into the swell, was definitely much smoother than with the i84. Coming back in, with the swell from the back/slide, the foil was affected a lot more. That's normal here regardless of foil, but I was surprised how noticeable it was. At least once, the wave kicked the foil fully out of the water. That also sometimes happens with the i84 when I use the 71 cm mast, but very rarely with the 91 cm. But I was definitely holding back, and things should get a bit smoother with more speed. It will take a few sessions on the new gear to get used to it, though.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..Sandman1221 said..
With my AFS W95 foil and either F1080 or F770 wing the swells do not interact with the wing/foil so I am balanced with equal front/rear foot pressure so not constantly straining my joints to adjust foot pressure. That is one of the reasons I went with the AFS foil, since I knew I would be in 1-3' swells out on the Gulf of Mexico, I just fly over/across the swell with zero interaction, its a trip!, just have to remember the swell is there when you touch down.
Swell is not the same everywhere. Kalmus is well known for the "voodoo chop" (which is fortunately limited to small-ish areas, mostly after ferry traffic). The regular swell and chop we're getting can be a bit challenging, too. Just recently, a foil racer from Florida visited, and commented on how difficult the swell made the jibing. That was on a lighter day, with relatively small chop.
I just took my new Starboard GT-R plus (800/300/85) out for the first time yesterday. Going out, straight into the swell, was definitely much smoother than with the i84. Coming back in, with the swell from the back/slide, the foil was affected a lot more. That's normal here regardless of foil, but I was surprised how noticeable it was. At least once, the wave kicked the foil fully out of the water. That also sometimes happens with the i84 when I use the 71 cm mast, but very rarely with the 91 cm. But I was definitely holding back, and things should get a bit smoother with more speed. It will take a few sessions on the new gear to get used to it, though.
I like to go down wind with my AFS foil, no interaction between the wing and the swell/waves. The only interaction I feel sometimes is if I am going slower and a wave slaps the side of the mast, not very noticeable and does not affect my flight.
Problem sometimes is in your back but tingling occurs in your feet because the pain or sensation is reflecting on the nerve on your back or sacrum. You should go to doctor rather consulting Dr. Google. But if you insist, you could start here and make decision to see a specialist.
"www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325817#exercise"
You could test yourself for this possibility with some tests but usually some radiographic studies may be quite informative.
I have these needles and pins in my feet too. But it depends not on sports activities. It comes and goes. Doctor Google says peripheral neuropathy. This comes with the age.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..
Problem sometimes is in your back but tingling occurs in your feet because the pain or sensation is reflecting on the nerve on your back or sacrum. You should go to doctor rather consulting Dr. Google. But if you insist, you could start here and make decision to see a specialist.
"www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325817#exercise"
You could test yourself for this possibility with some tests but usually some radiographic studies may be quite informative.
We have taken the approach you recommended in the past. On three separate occasions, that led to misdiagnosis, sometimes accompanied with "radiographic studies" and cortisone shots that helped only temporarily. On two previous occasions, we only went to "Dr. Google" when medical care did bring any improvement after many weeks. Both times, we we were able to identify the likely cause quickly, find appropriate stretches and exercises, and fix the problem within a week or less.
This time around, I went straight to "Dr. Google". It was a bit less straightforward, since there are more than 10 possible causes, but doable. The problem, which had been present at varying degrees for weeks, was gone after a few days, and has not come back.Select to expand quotePatK said..
Doctor Google says peripheral neuropathy. This comes with the age.
"Peripheral neuropathy" translated to plain English means "something is wrong with the nerves on your feet". Is says nothing about the cause, and provides zero clues how to possibly make things better. My first thought, too, was that this might be an age thing, especially since my mother had very severe peripheral neuropathy that included complete loss of feeling in her feet. In a sense, this is indeed an age thing - it's much more likely to occur once you're past 35, 50, or 60. But that does not mean that there is no fix for it. I just would not rely on any doctor to know what the cause or the fix is.
I have gotten rid of elbow tendonitis after two years when I discovered the Therabar, and carpal tunnel (misdiagnosed by my doc) using somewhat similar stretches. My wife got rid of upper harmstring tendonitis (also misdiagnosed) using excentric exercises. Many doctors would certainly have "diagnosed" my tingling feet as "peripheral neuropathy", caused by a combination of age and overuse. I'd rather do a few proper stretches and exercises than follow a recommendation to rest, and "accept that you are getting old".
If all the measures fail, B12 could be tried since it does not hurt other than shot itself. Some people have successful result with this approach. Good luck and I hope you continue to enjoy windsurfing.
There was a thread about similar thing happening to people SUPing. I get pins and needles during a long paddle. Flatwater paddling. Not surfing.
I find walking in waist deep water after a long paddle helps. You look and feel like an old woman but it helps.
I also got rid of tendinitis with acupuncture.
Select to expand quotetarquin1 said..
There was a thread about similar thing happening to people SUPing. I get pins and needles during a long paddle. Flatwater paddling. Not surfing.
I find walking in waist deep water after a long paddle helps. You look and feel like an old woman but it helps.
I also got rid of tendinitis with acupuncture.
SUPing is really hard on your lower back, the rotation of the lower back needed to paddle forward is not good, the disks in the vertebral column can take enormous strain vertically (compression and elongation) but it is very sensitive to rotational stress which damages the disks over time and that injures nerves running out of the spinal cord through the narrow openings between the vertebra and disks, damage the disks and those narrow opening get smaller impinging on the nerves.
And B12 is great for peripheral neuropathy, sublingual lozenges is a good way to absorb it. As we age it gets harder for us to absorb B12, seems the 50s are a transition period for that issue.
And here i was thinking it was good to get out and do some sport! Go back to lying around and drinking beer.
Not quite 50 thanks!
Select to expand quotetarquin1 said..
And here i was thinking it was good to get out and do some sport! Go back to lying around and drinking beer.
Not quite 50 thanks!
kayaking with a regular paddle (not a wing paddle) is fine for your back since you do not need to rotate. Mountain biking is good too as long as you avoid the trees!
Select to expand quotePatK said..
I have these needles and pins in my feet too. But it depends not on sports activities. It comes and goes. Doctor Google says peripheral neuropathy. This comes with the age.
Got my diagnosis today from blood test. It is lack of B12. Should be fixed with three injections
Select to expand quotePatK said..PatK said..
I have these needles and pins in my feet too. But it depends not on sports activities. It comes and goes. Doctor Google says peripheral neuropathy. This comes with the age.
Got my diagnosis today from blood test. It is lack of B12. Should be fixed with three injections
Well I would recommend taking B12 daily to keep your levels in the body stable over time. I guess injections are a quick fix, but will not change the fact you are getting older and having a harder time absorbing it from your food. I have never gotten them, just take B12 everyday with my other vitamins.
Select to expand quotePatK said..
Got my diagnosis today from blood test. It is lack of B12. Should be fixed with three injections
I hope that will indeed happen. But while low B12 may cause your symptoms, that does not necessarily mean they do cause it, or that they are the only cause. I had the same diagnosis from tingling in the fingers. Getting my B12 levels up to a high level (which happened in a few weeks using only 1000 IU pills) did nothing to the symptoms. Turned out is was carpal tunnel syndrome, which needed nerve flossing exercises and watching where I put my hands when sleeping to fix.
Good post, thanks for that Boardsurfer.
I had a bi-malleolar fracture and ankle dislocation 29 months ago now and still get a lot of tingling and numbness particularly while in bed.
Sounds like Tarsal tunnel to me.
I'm onto Dr Jo's exercise schedule from now on.
Re getting regular B12 in your diet, we're fortunate down here in Aus/NZ that we have Marmite and Vegemite (a 'delicacy' 
which never did seem to take on any where else in the world) they are a breakfast vege extract paste which is high on B vitamins and Marmite has B12 also.
I have eaten it all of my life as have many Kiwis and Aussies.
And isn't foiling just great, particularly for old farts (I'm 69) with the lack of chop pounding and drag fighting?
Cheers.
Select to expand quoteTe Hau said..
Good post, thanks for that Boardsurfer.
I had a bi-malleolar fracture and ankle dislocation 29 months ago now and still get a lot of tingling and numbness particularly while in bed.
Sounds like Tarsal tunnel to me.
I'm onto Dr Jo's exercise schedule from now on.
Re getting regular B12 in your diet, we're fortunate down here in Aus/NZ that we have Marmite and Vegemite (a 'delicacy' which never did seem to take on any where else in the world) they are a breakfast vege extract paste which is high on B vitamins and Marmite has B12 also.
I have eaten it all of my life as have many Kiwis and Aussies.
And isn't foiling just great, particularly for old farts (I'm 69) with the lack of chop pounding and drag fighting?
Cheers.
IMO nutritional yeast flakes (Red Star brand) on toast with olive oil is a much tastier way to get B12 from your diet than vegemite or marmite from what I have heard!, and it is not a waste product from breweries but food grown for humans.
