I haven't been able to sail my Magic Carpet (2021/110) much yet and I have been struggling a bit finding what works. It has either been too light to foil or quite gusty. I'm using a Slingshot Infinity 76 and a 30" mast and a standard FWind1 stab. The winds have been light, so I have been on a 6.6 KA Koncept sail.
The board has a Tuttle box at the very back of the board and then twin US box tracks slghtly more forward. I have both the Tuttle head and plate mount. I haven't tried thetwin US box plate yet.
My previous board was a Patrik F-Race 130 and used position C and got that working pretty well.
Using position C (wing forward) and found the board would lift too early and just crash down. I went to position B (center) and found that things worked, but I wasn't able to get foiling anywhere as easily as with the F-Race. I tried position C again today (with some other minor changes) and it was pretty much a repeatof my first experience, so I went to B and was back in control. That's when the wind picked up a lot too, so I wasn't able to judge if I still had problems lifting off in light wind. I suppose I could move the boom up and/or mast track back, although I find that the board is so short and the mast track so far back that bringing the sail back puts it very close to the front straps.
I bought the board to use for wind- and wingfoliing, so I expect the twin US track box will be useful for wingfoiling (I just got my wing recently and have only used it in very light winds on a beginner board with a daggerboard). If I used the twin track plate with switch fuse position B, the foil would end up quite a bit forward compared to the Tuttle box. I'm wondering if position A (mast to wing direct) might work for windfoiling and wingfoiling? I'm not sure how having the mast a bit more forward would affect windfoiling performance (I'll try when I have time, but I figuredit wouldn't hurt to ask people who may have tried that already). It's a bit odd that Tabou has designed a board where the same foil mast position can not be achieved with both Tuttle & track plate.
P.S. As a crazy experiment, I think it might be possible to use both theTuttle base and the twin US track to attach a small speed fin to the Tuttle box and then have the foil foward of that.
Experimenting is part of the game. I was very much surprised when I mounted my Moses 85 Mast/Plate on the windfoil twin tracks of my new RRD Pocket Rocket 200 (145L) and thought I could windfoil with the foil mast in the wingfoil mount. It just didn't work.
The twin tracks are a good 3-4 inches fwd of the tuttle box. Moving the the sail in the mast track didn't help. Hybrid boards are interesting.
Select to expand quoteallesad said..
Experimenting is part of the game. I was very much surprised when I mounted my Moses 85 Mast/Plate on the windfoil twin tracks of my new RRD Pocket Rocket 200 (145L) and thought I could windfoil with the foil mast in the wingfoil mount. It just didn't work.
The twin tracks are a good 3-4 inches fwd of the tuttle box. Moving the the sail in the mast track didn't help. Hybrid boards are interesting.
I'm using 2020 RRD Pocket Rocket 180 Ltd with Slingshot Infinity 84 mounted in twin tracks (all way back). Works great for me. Get up very easy, fly stable, jibes great.
Short foil boards like RRD Pocket Rocket, Magic Carpet require some experience. They are much more sensitive (because of short distance mast to foil) in compare to regular windsurfing foil boards.
Select to expand quotemotogon said..
I'm using 2020 RRD Pocket Rocket 180 Ltd with Slingshot Infinity 84 mounted in twin tracks (all way back). Works great for me. Get up very easy, fly stable, jibes great.
Short foil boards like RRD Pocket Rocket, Magic Carpet require some experience. They are much more sensitive (because of short distance mast to foil) in compare to regular windsurfing foil boards.
Which fuse position do you use? Have you tried the A position or do you imply that you do by saying "all the way back"? I think the combination of having the wing in the A position and having the mast all the way back in the racks results in the most far back wing position, but the mast position is further forward compared to using a Tuttle base.
I feel like my setup could benefit from more lateral resistance from the board+mast+foil combination when pumping to get speed, so could the more forward mast position while keeping the wing and fuse the same achieve that?
I made sure I had every possible screw needed for all the mounting positions for both types of mounting hardware, so the limiting factor is finding time in suitable conditions to test this stuff.
Hello,
I switch from wizard 125 to magic carpet 120 in d?cembre, due to lockdown and young kid I use it only once and it did work nicely right away.
I use the B position, Universal at 104 and footstrap same as my wizard.
JuriM, I'm using it with wing in C position, plate all way back on tracks. Sail mast almost all way forward.
Pretty much everybody recommends running the i76 in the B position. I use a i76 in B with a couple different boards with deep tuttle finboxes. On one of the boards the finbox is far aft, as older boards have been. This still works and balances well. The big snow-shovel shaped i76 wing has a really broad center of lift, making it easy to balance with different board geometries. I run the sail mast base at 107 cm in front of the front fin screw for sails in 6.0 to 7.0 range.
I have said this before, but It takes me about 5 sessions to dial in a board/foil/straps/sail combo, quicker if I make multiple adjustments during a session. This is my system not sure how it works for others. The key thing as mentioned above by allesad is experimentation: ride, assess, readjust, ride and reassess during the same conditions. My initial settings are rough guesses that have worked for me, the other way to get starting points for strap, universal and foil position is to compare to your prior board, if it worked. although these settings do change as your skill increases
1) make sure you are not riding with a heavy back foot (if you cannot lift your back heel easily there is too much weight on your back leg)
2) set up the foil generally how most others are riding that combo. Eg most people ride the 76 in B so stick with that.
3) Set front strap all the way forward in WS positions, no back strap (can ignore if going strapless, but you mostly should be standing with your front foot close to the front strap inserts)
4) Sail universal 12 inch from front strap (20 in for less skilled riders)
5) Position foil mast 36 in from sail universal (40 in for less skilled riders). Use twin tracks if you can, unless it pushes the foil mast closer than 36in to the universal
6) Ride and assess
7a) lifts very easily and breaches often and is very squirly when pumping the sail -> move sail forwards
7b) lifts very easily and breaches often but is not squirly and can be gybed relatively easily -> move foil mast back. If cannot move foil mast, then move sail forwards, assuming front strap is all the way forward
7c) does not lift, requires heavy back foot to lift -> move front strap back unless it would move it >20 in further back from universal, if so move strap and universal both back a tad. alternatively can move foil forwards in track. But things can become squirely if you get the foil mast and sail much closer than 35in together. this is where moving the front strap can help balance things without changing the universal to foil mast distance.
8) ride and reassess
9) continue to adjust.
2 different people I know use their PocketR's with foil in tuttle for both wing and wingfoil.
They are very good..foiljibes..with both.
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
4) Sail universal 12 inch from front strap (20 in for less skilled riders)
5) Position foil mast 36 in from sail universal (40 in for less skilled riders). Use twin tracks if you can, unless it pushes the foil mast closer than 36in to the universal
Lots of good advice. Some of this is kind of tricky to apply to the Magic Carpet 110.
I'm using a 2-bolt Chinook base, so that limits my track adjustment length by about 1.5". With the track all the way forward, the distance from the front Tuttle bolt to the middle of the universal is 88cm = 34.5". So the furthest you can actually have the mast base from the front screw is 36". If you use a twin US track base plate,
The distance from the front screw of the front strap to the universal (only running front straps, all the way forward until I figure out the other stuff) is 30cm or about 12", so that works out OK and my current impression is that the straps will go back 1-2 inserts.
I guess the bottom line is that the Magic Carpet might be a bit advanced for windfoiling? I think I'll be OK with it if I can figure out how to get it to lift in light wind without making it a rodeo ride when it actually flies... Also, if I really get bitten by the wing bug, I might just be using with the Slick 5.0 wing and ignore windfoiling for the most part. I loved the handling of the Slick when I was playing with it on a beginner board in super light winds (I even used it as a SUP paddle when the wind died almost completely). And as a backup for windfoiling, I still have the F-Race 130 in my basement as backup, but I don't think it will come to that.
(Nice to see so many old, familiar names here...going back even to rec.windsurfing days...)
Select to expand quoteJuriM said..thedoor said..
4) Sail universal 12 inch from front strap (20 in for less skilled riders)
5) Position foil mast 36 in from sail universal (40 in for less skilled riders). Use twin tracks if you can, unless it pushes the foil mast closer than 36in to the universal
Lots of good advice. Some of this is kind of tricky to apply to the Magic Carpet 110.
I'm using a 2-bolt Chinook base, so that limits my track adjustment length by about 1.5". With the track all the way forward, the distance from the front Tuttle bolt to the middle of the universal is 88cm = 34.5". So the furthest you can actually have the mast base from the front screw is 36". If you use a twin US track base plate,
The distance from the front screw of the front strap to the universal (only running front straps, all the way forward until I figure out the other stuff) is 30cm or about 12", so that works out OK and my current impression is that the straps will go back 1-2 inserts.
I guess the bottom line is that the Magic Carpet might be a bit advanced for windfoiling? I think I'll be OK with it if I can figure out how to get it to lift in light wind without making it a rodeo ride when it actually flies... Also, if I really get bitten by the wing bug, I might just be using with the Slick 5.0 wing and ignore windfoiling for the most part. I loved the handling of the Slick when I was playing with it on a beginner board in super light winds (I even used it as a SUP paddle when the wind died almost completely). And as a backup for windfoiling, I still have the F-Race 130 in my basement as backup, but I don't think it will come to that.
(Nice to see so many old, familiar names here...going back even to rec.windsurfing days...)
I am a fan of the two bolt universal, esp for foiling as I can remember exactly where I want my universal, but on some boards I need to use the single to get the distances correct.
There are not many people that try winging that go back to windfoiling so starting out with a crossover board is the way to go.
Sometimes you will need to use the inside track holes to get the foil far enough or back enough in the track, but maybe just use the tuttle (76 position B) for windfoiling, which eliminates a variable and focus on trying to get the front strap and the universal in the correct spot.
If I were to guess for a begginner I would start with the 20 40 numbers Universal 40 inch from front of mast, front strap 20 in from univesal and adjust accordingly but you can't go wrong with buying a wing and just focusing on that too
I am riding a hybrid and the tuttle bolt to universal dimenison is 76 cm or 30". Yes it took a handfull of sessions to learn how to load the sail without heading up. Now I love it for manuver based riding and wave riding. I like the tail on that Tabou, it's a tail kick with a crisp release. Consider trying it without the straps. Keep trying!
I got a Duotone mast base and I also removed the footstraps on the board (mostly to learn winging, but also tofreemy positioningwhen windfoiling, as someone suggested above). I have spent a few hours learning winging now, but haven't foiled yet on the wing: I think the conditions were just a bit too light for my skill level, butI have learned a lot, so I thinkfoiling with the wing will come soon.
We had a surprise light breeze today and I had a little bit of time, so I chose to use the board withthewindsurfing sail (6.6 KA Koncept). I found it much easier to get the board moving. I used a reallywide stance while pumping with the front foot near the mast track and back foot quite far back. As soon as I got a bit of speed, I started moving the front foot back and I was able to get foiling. Once up foiling, the balance was fine (not perfect) and I managed to get quite a few good long rides on the foil.
I think removing the footstraps was the main contributor to the improvements, but being able to get the mast base 1.5" further forward may also have helped. I'm using a longer mast now than before (35.4" vs. 30"), but I don't think that made much of a difference. I switched masts for windfoiling because Ihave one mast attached to theUSbox plate mount and the other one to the Tuttle base. (There's hardly any salt in the sea water here, so bolt corrosion isn't really an issue if I just use a bit of marine grease.) The Switch Fuse is in position B.
Meanwhile,there's a video with Ross Williams on YouTube where he explains how to set up the board for the different sports. He's also using the front part of the mast track more than the back part, which to me sounds like maybe Tabou could have put a slightly longer mast track on the board or placed it slightly further forward... Similarly, I think it's odd that there's zero overlap with the US boxfoil tracks and Tuttle box positioning, so if you want to use the far back foil mast position, you have to have a Tuttle base foil. Maybe next year they can just eliminate the Tuttle box and make the twin foil tracks a bit longer?
Thanks for all the help & comments. I do think I'm getting the hang of this board now and it will be OK for both sports. It was frustrating at first and the winds have not been ideal for tuning stuff like this. (Mostly too light, but at times also just changing all the time so that you don't know if things got worse because what you changed didn't work or if the wind just picked up or dropped too much while you were changing a setting.)
Hey Juri,
Just curious, when you're mounting your Slingshot foil using the Tuttle box to you Magic Carpet, are the Tuttle screwholes already sized for the 10mm Slingshot screws, or did you have to drill them out on the board? I'm pretty interested in that board (currently still on my original Dialer 145). Thanks!
Select to expand quotemulligat said..
Hey Juri,
Just curious, when you're mounting your Slingshot foil using the Tuttle box to you Magic Carpet, are the Tuttle screwholes already sized for the 10mm Slingshot screws, or did you have to drill them out on the board? I'm pretty interested in that board (currently still on my original Dialer 145). Thanks!
I had to drill the Tuttle screw holes. The shop said "go for it", so I just used a 10mm drill bit and haven't had a problem. Personally, I think 10mm is overkill and I'm surprised Slingshot hasn't produced an 8mm option. I can understand that 6mm is most probably undersized for foiling, especially if you jump.
Is Slingshot the only board on the market with 10mm Tuttle screw support from the factory? I'm not sure what size the Tabou holes were originally...maybe 8mm, but it could have even been 6mm with a bit of clearance.
I have been wingfoiling on the Magic Carpet now and I'm using a Takuma Helium, so I'm not even using the Tuttle box at the moment. Takuma actually uses 6mm screws for the pedestal mount, but the screws are very short and there are 4 of them, so I guess it's fine.
