Supercruiser 1700cm switch to Race with 1000cm wing

I am thinking of making this shift - have plastic in hand... Have loved the Supercruiser but I want to cover more distance and greater upwind where I sail. There are no real waves or swell to get the excitement from the cruiser where it would obviously bring some real fun. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on light wind tradeoff(a necessity) as I am led to believe the lift with the 1000cm should, in theory, be pretty good?

Thanks for your reply. I am looking for a light weather option in the race SB range outside of the Super-cruiser. I am heavy at 100kg rounding up slightly. The wind can be around 15knots and higher at certain times of the year. I had a chance to compare the SC with a SB race with the 800 wing. It did not seem much different in 12-13 knots to get going (which we get a lot of)- a bit more aggressive pumping for a short period. Seems to defy logic really but I suppose this is where less drag might come into it. My thinking is with the 1000 I might still get early planning and also the improvement in distance I can cover and upwind speed. It's a completely different style I can appreciate that.

No personal experience, but I remember a race where there were ~ 10 freeride foils and ~ 4 race foils. Some of the freeride foilers used to compete in formula and slalom, so their skills were similar to the racers. The race foils all looked smaller than most of the freeride foils, the boards were wider and the sails larger (9-ish vs. 7.5 and smaller). Despite the larger area of the freeride foils, it was absolutely no competition with respect to getting going. In very light winds, only the race foils got foiling at all. When the wind picked up so that a few of the freeride foils would foil every now and then with a lot of pumping, the race foils had no problem whatsoever doing and upwind-downwind course. Seems that if you're willing to handle the larger board and sail, and know how to pump, the race wings are better, not worse, in light wind, even with a much smaller area (at least to the Infinity 84 - I don't think anyone had monsters like the i99).

Race foils definitely rely on board volume and sail area to get going in light conditions. They need that added glide to get to a speed where the foil can start contributing.
In flight they also need a continuous amount of power from a stable sail. When I used a sail which easily depowers I had major issues with a race foil but it works awesome with a surfy one.

Ultimately I decided that the race foil wasn't for me. But I have waves to play on and fairly higher winds on a regular basis so my equipment reflects that.

There are foils which tread a middle ground. Higher aspect but still fairly large area and quite fast. So far Starboard hasn't been producing them however.

A mate switched from the supercruiser to the race, but he uses sail sizes up to 8.6, he feels he lost pretty much nothing in the low end, gained a lot in the high end and his jibes were immediately so much better.

Tbh, also with a small sail, with good pumping technique nothing beats a racefoil in terms of early flight, but especially glide through lulls.

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Stretchy said..

Grantmac said..
Ultimately I decided that the race foil wasn't for me. But I have waves to play on and fairly higher winds on a r
There are foils which tread a middle ground. Higher aspect but still fairly large area and quite fast. So far Starboard hasn't been producing them however.

Does the Starboard "Freeride" foil fit that bill? I believe it has more bottom end than the GT

Glissattitude reviewed the two wings when they first came out and found that there was much less difference than one might imagine. While the freeride certainly has more area, the thicker profile works against it. They felt like you gained very little bottom end with the freeride but gave up a lot of acceleration and glide. OP is a bit bigger so he certainly would benefit from more area but for smaller people, something to consider.

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Captflathead said..
This has been very informative, please love to hear more if anyone has an opinion - thanks for all of the thoughts. I will go ahead and buy the Face + with the 800 wing as a set and get either the 1100 or the 1000 - some more to ponder.

As someone once told me about the race set: Be careful, the opposite shore comes at you a lot faster.

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Stretchy said..

Grantmac said..
Ultimately I decided that the race foil wasn't for me. But I have waves to play on and fairly higher winds on a r
There are foils which tread a middle ground. Higher aspect but still fairly large area and quite fast. So far Starboard hasn't been producing them however.

Does the Starboard "Freeride" foil fit that bill? I believe it has more bottom end than the GT

It doesn't have enough area to really be in the category of foil that I'm talking about.

I am 225 lbs and using Slingshot 84 or 99 wings. But I have been watching 2 other foiler: one using SC and other SB race 1000/115 plus fuselage on a SB Formula board. Both of them are similar weights but the race foil is significantly faster and earlier for flight on superlight days (6-8 knots) and race set-up appears significantly more stable looking. Therefore, I am also interested in making the switch. Let us know if you make the purchase and share your experience.

OK damage has been done to the bank account - have purchased the race plus with the 800 wing. Heading to the shop this morning to pick up the 1000 wing. No wind today to speak of, it could be a couple of day until I get it wet.

An update: wind sub 10 kts got a gust of a bit over and pumped into flight for 25 meters. I can report the board feels slippery before take off without a draggy feel. I had the 800 up front that comes with the Race + - tomorrow I will try the 1000. I am feeling this decision has a lot of potential for what I was looking for without a lot of loss in the early flight department. Time will tell :)

captain

what size sail ?

Sorry should have said, was using a 8.6 Sailworks NX.

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Nelle said..

Icerider73 said..
Hi Im using the AFS R1000(850cm2) race foil and its working great for Lightwind and with the speed you will get throw lulls.
Also very fun to play with a 5.4 Wavesail in 6ms.
2 days ago i bought the AFS 85 F800(1120cm2) and tried it and the take off was even better than the R1000 wing
Ok upwind performence and ok speed.
Have also a R800 wing to compere with.
The Supercruiser is a great foil also with small sails and lower speed inclunding auto take off without pumping.
My next test will be the new SB freeride 1100 plus i think it will take off earlier then the old freeride.
My weight 73kg

Icerider, have you ridden the F700 wing and can you compare early take off and performance with the F800. I have the original JP Flight AL which is pretty terrible for light wind and I need to upgrade. I was thinking Supercruiser but I think the AFS might be a better allrounder and you get full prepreg carbon V Aluminium for about the same money.
My weight 70kg

Nelle, I'm your size. The F800 is a really fun wing for people our size. It lifts early and at the other end of the spectrum very well behaved even as gusts are almost 30 where it's very surfy. It's almost hard to compare to the F700 which is a very nice wing on its own since once I screwed the 800 on, I haven't taken it back off (I also have a more freerace foil for bigger sails). I've used the F800 with a 5.4 when a similar size friend was finning with an 8.5.
It jibes very easily and likes to make a nice carve akin to a 100 liter freeride/freewave board. It was the first wing I could jibe consistently. Like the F700, it flies very steady and, while not as fast, in higher wind it will slow enough to play on the wind swell. Neither wing is slow or feels draggy. Both are stable enough that you feel confident pushing it a bit with the edge, of course, to the smaller 700.I guess you can tell I'm a fan.

If you've already been foiling a while and speed appeals to you, consider the 95 for the longer mast which might be a better match for the faster, smaller wings like the S950/R1000. Otherwise, the 85/700 & 800 are super easy and certainly quick enough.

Captflathead, sounds like you made a great purchase. That combo should be a lot of fun and good times are ahead.