Hello everyone,
My setup is the following: FutureFly 187 foil board, Starboard 85cm mast, 105 fuselage, 900 front wing, 255 back wing (not -2
version) the wing was accompanied with a +1 shim. I used a 1.7? shim in the mast tunnel that translated to a mast rake of 1.4? away from the front tip of the board. Lastly, I had a Ezzy Cross 5.7 sail rig to its minimal downhaul. The wind was blowing around 12-13kns.
The problem that I was having was trying to get the rig flying. The few times that I got it flying, it was difficult to control and keep
flying. I had to use a lot of back foot pressure to keep the nose up and I could only get the rig flying in one direction.
Well, I thought that if I could barely get the rig flying with the current setup then increasing the rake would solve the problem, so I installed a shim of 2.1? that translated to 2.8? rake of the mast. Well, this just made it worse I couldn't get up at all. Now I'm left with the option of going in the opposite direction with the shim maybe 0.5?, no shim or turning the shim around an have the rake of the mast move towards the tip of the board.
If anyone has any ideas that can be shared, it would be much appreciated.
Thank You!
Lack of lift? 
add more power to your rear wing. shim it
too back for heavy? Move mast back 
mast rake below 2.5? for light wind so you can pump up. 
And above 3? when faster than 25 knots.
see speed thread foiling to 30knots for a lot of tips.
I struggle similarly with a similar setup, although mine's the IQ, which I sometimes run on a Black 105 fuse instead of the 115, over an Alien 155. Best I can offer is to mostly ignore the rake for now and just go for more power. Rake as I understand it governs attitude once you're up and running but shouldn't really be a tool to get you there. What's worked for me to some degree is setting the mastfoot further forward than I would with other foils, rigging plenty of sail - either 7.0 or 8.5 - and keeping the board on the water until I'm sure I have enough speed to rise smoothly. Once it's up it's fast and responsive to heeling to windward for control, but I've never found it a quick wing to get foiling on.
If you've got the +1 shim on a normal stab (not -2) and a 900 fromt wing thats actually quite a lot of lift.
i would start by removing the mast shim. It will actually be making it much harder to get airborne. 0.5 mast raked back is normal and shouldn't hamper getting flying, but more than that will make life harder.
if still not working (it should) then bring the mast base (sail) back in till it does. It might only be a cm that makes the difference.
Agree. I would not play too much with the mast rake yet. Focus on the mast base position. As a rule of thumb, if you are putting too much pressure on the back foot, you can bring the mast base back. Also, that angle you have in the back stab could also be too much.
how much foiling experience do you have?
We have tons of iq foilers where I am (NZ). The biggest issue I see with your set up is the rear wing shim. Everyone with the iq set (-2 255) use either the +.5 shim or +1 for heavier riders. I use the +.5 and never change it. Stay with me, this gets confusing. The -2 means the iq rear wing has 2 degrees LESS down angle than the regular 255 (so nose up more. Ie flatter) so less lift.
to replicate that with the regular 255 you need to use a -1.5 shim or a -1 shim. Using the +1 shim you have means you have +2.5 degrees more down angle than the iq sailors. That is waaay too much lift which makes it difficult to control, it will porpoise up and down. You can get replacement shims from anywhere that sells the iq gear, or online. Even .5 degree difference on the shims makes a big difference to the foil, so get the -1.5 and set and forget. I had both versions of the 255 rear wing and can attest to this being right.
at your stage don't worry about mast rake shims. I have tried every combination possible and it doesn't make it any easier at the beginning. But too much rake does make it harder to get off the water. It's really an extra for experts thing. Most boards have enough rocker in the nose that you aren't going to be nosediving into waves.
the other things to check are your footstrap and mast foot position. If you can't find any guidance for your board I suggest putting the front strap in the second holes from the front, and get rid of the back straps. That will allow you to move your back foot around to find the balance. If you find your back foot is generally way at the back of the board, move the front straps back a hole to compensate, and vice versa. The aim is to balance all the weights (you and the sail rig) evenly over the foil.start with the mast base about 108cm (measure from the middle of the front foil bolt to the centre of the mast base. If it is hard to keep the nose up, move the mast base back and vice versa.
there is a lot of overlap between the effects of these things. Ie footstraps vs mast base position. So it's a bit of trial and error. At the beginning tho, it's mainly technique. You will start off thinking the setup is all wrong, but as you get better you will realise a lot of those things were fine and it was just you. The rear wing shim is the exception tho. You do need to get that right and then leave it.
Select to expand quoteWillyWind said..
Agree. I would not play too much with the mast rake yet. Focus on the mast base position. As a rule of thumb, if you are putting too much pressure on the back foot, you can bring the mast base back. Also, that angle you have in the back stab could also be too much.
how much foiling experience do you have?
Thanks for chiming in. I have been foiling for 2-3 years and I'm still struggling to "dial in" the foil set up where foot pressure is more
equally distributed between each foot. I'm working on my flying jibes and make about 30% of them. I'm playing with the rake to try
to achieve better riding comfort. I deeply appreciate your time and tips.
Select to expand quoteshaneNZ said..
We have tons of iq foilers where I am (NZ). The biggest issue I see with your set up is the rear wing shim. Everyone with the iq set (-2 255) use either the +.5 shim or +1 for heavier riders. I use the +.5 and never change it. Stay with me, this gets confusing. The -2 means the iq rear wing has 2 degrees LESS down angle than the regular 255 (so nose up more. Ie flatter) so less lift.
to replicate that with the regular 255 you need to use a -1.5 shim or a -1 shim. Using the +1 shim you have means you have +2.5 degrees more down angle than the iq sailors. That is waaay too much lift which makes it difficult to control, it will porpoise up and down. You can get replacement shims from anywhere that sells the iq gear, or online. Even .5 degree difference on the shims makes a big difference to the foil, so get the -1.5 and set and forget. I had both versions of the 255 rear wing and can attest to this being right.
at your stage don't worry about mast rake shims. I have tried every combination possible and it doesn't make it any easier at the beginning. But too much rake does make it harder to get off the water. It's really an extra for experts thing. Most boards have enough rocker in the nose that you aren't going to be nosediving into waves.
the other things to check are your footstrap and mast foot position. If you can't find any guidance for your board I suggest putting the front strap in the second holes from the front, and get rid of the back straps. That will allow you to move your back foot around to find the balance. If you find your back foot is generally way at the back of the board, move the front straps back a hole to compensate, and vice versa. The aim is to balance all the weights (you and the sail rig) evenly over the foil.start with the mast base about 108cm (measure from the middle of the front foil bolt to the centre of the mast base. If it is hard to keep the nose up, move the mast base back and vice versa.
there is a lot of overlap between the effects of these things. Ie footstraps vs mast base position. So it's a bit of trial and error. At the beginning tho, it's mainly technique. You will start off thinking the setup is all wrong, but as you get better you will realise a lot of those things were fine and it was just you. The rear wing shim is the exception tho. You do need to get that right and then leave it.
Thanks Shane for taking the time to explain the science of the 255 back wing. I was under the impression that the -2 255 wing was developed for a special 115cm fuselage and that since I have a normal 105cm fuse I would need a normal 255 wing to go with it.
Since there are so many different foil boards with foil mast engagement differences that a "golden angle or range" would be
established to ensure continuity of performance.
Shane can you explain the significance of 108cm?
Thanks Again!
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Select to expand quoteWillyWind said..
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Thanks WillyWind, I didn't know that the 105 fuse is for slalom, but it makes a lot of sense. In order to get the same front lift as the
115 fuse you need to be going faster. I have a 115 fuse (not the +fuse) and should I use the 255 -2 wing or the 255 -0 wing? I was under the impression that 255 -2 wing was used with + fuses. If you or someone can explain the use of + fuses that would be much appreciated. Another option (but an expensive one) is to throw all of this Starboard stuff into the trash and go with Patrik! If anyone is using Patrik please tell what your experience has been? Thanks!
Select to expand quoteZenFoiler said..WillyWind said..
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Thanks WillyWind, I didn't know that the 105 fuse is for slalom, but it makes a lot of sense. In order to get the same front lift as the
115 fuse you need to be going faster. I have a 115 fuse (not the +fuse) and should I use the 255 -2 wing or the 255 -0 wing? I was under the impression that 255 -2 wing was used with + fuses. If you or someone can explain the use of + fuses that would be much appreciated. Another option (but an expensive one) is to throw all of this Starboard stuff into the trash and go with Patrik! If anyone is using Patrik please tell what your experience has been? Thanks!
If you can't maintain flight yet, it's a bit early to be considering going to a PWA foil.
Select to expand quoteZenFoiler said..WillyWind said..
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Thanks WillyWind, I didn't know that the 105 fuse is for slalom, but it makes a lot of sense. In order to get the same front lift as the
115 fuse you need to be going faster. I have a 115 fuse (not the +fuse) and should I use the 255 -2 wing or the 255 -0 wing? I was under the impression that 255 -2 wing was used with + fuses. If you or someone can explain the use of + fuses that would be much appreciated. Another option (but an expensive one) is to throw all of this Starboard stuff into the trash and go with Patrik! If anyone is using Patrik please tell what your experience has been? Thanks!
The original starboard fuselage was black. The plus version is the same length but places the front wing further forward for more power, let's say. yes, you can use the 255-2 in the black fuse as long as it fits. There have been so many iterations of the tail wing saddle system that I don't remember anymore. older SB foils are outdated but still perfectly fine. Regardless of the brand you get, if you are sticking to high aspect ratio wings, speed is your friend when gybing.
Select to expand quotetonyk said..ZenFoiler said..WillyWind said..
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Thanks WillyWind, I didn't know that the 105 fuse is for slalom, but it makes a lot of sense. In order to get the same front lift as the
115 fuse you need to be going faster. I have a 115 fuse (not the +fuse) and should I use the 255 -2 wing or the 255 -0 wing? I was under the impression that 255 -2 wing was used with + fuses. If you or someone can explain the use of + fuses that would be much appreciated. Another option (but an expensive one) is to throw all of this Starboard stuff into the trash and go with Patrik! If anyone is using Patrik please tell what your experience has been? Thanks!
If you can't maintain flight yet, it's a bit early to be considering going to a PWA foil.
Yes the Iq foil is still a very good foil in general, just not the highest performance/speed available. No need for any more expensive foils till you can fly and gybe the iq setup.
Select to expand quoteKarbonko said..tonyk said..ZenFoiler said..WillyWind said..
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Thanks WillyWind, I didn't know that the 105 fuse is for slalom, but it makes a lot of sense. In order to get the same front lift as the
115 fuse you need to be going faster. I have a 115 fuse (not the +fuse) and should I use the 255 -2 wing or the 255 -0 wing? I was under the impression that 255 -2 wing was used with + fuses. If you or someone can explain the use of + fuses that would be much appreciated. Another option (but an expensive one) is to throw all of this Starboard stuff into the trash and go with Patrik! If anyone is using Patrik please tell what your experience has been? Thanks!
If you can't maintain flight yet, it's a bit early to be considering going to a PWA foil.
Yes the Iq foil is still a very good foil in general, just not the highest performance/speed available. No need for any more expensive foils till you can fly and gybe the iq setup.
Thanks guys for all the input! I'm going to chuck the mast shims for now and work from a 108cm mast position, -1.5 tail shim, middle foot straps position and see what happens. This should be fun! I will report back. In the meantime rip it up on the water!
Select to expand quoteZenFoiler said..Karbonko said..tonyk said..ZenFoiler said..WillyWind said..
108cm, or 42 inches for imperial people, is considered a good starting point to balance your setup. You have the foil, the position of your back foot, front foot, mast base, and sail size. All that needs to be dialed in in order for you to get a balanced foiling experience. You start placing the mast base at 108cm, the foot straps in the middle holes, pick a sail, and start tuning from there. Remember: when you put more weight in the back foot, you are treating to compensate lack of equipment balance; you can achieve the same result if you move the sail and/or the feet position back. Please note that some people like to be putting more back pressure, others (pro riders in general) prefer to push down on their front foot, and others prefer a more balanced setup.
Also remember the 105 fuse is for slalom. In my experience, you need to have good sail power (be pretty powered up) to sail it "comfortably ".
Thanks WillyWind, I didn't know that the 105 fuse is for slalom, but it makes a lot of sense. In order to get the same front lift as the
115 fuse you need to be going faster. I have a 115 fuse (not the +fuse) and should I use the 255 -2 wing or the 255 -0 wing? I was under the impression that 255 -2 wing was used with + fuses. If you or someone can explain the use of + fuses that would be much appreciated. Another option (but an expensive one) is to throw all of this Starboard stuff into the trash and go with Patrik! If anyone is using Patrik please tell what your experience has been? Thanks!
If you can't maintain flight yet, it's a bit early to be considering going to a PWA foil.
Yes the Iq foil is still a very good foil in general, just not the highest performance/speed available. No need for any more expensive foils till you can fly and gybe the iq setup.
Thanks guys for all the input! I'm going to chuck the mast shims for now and work from a 108cm mast position, -1.5 tail shim, middle foot straps position and see what happens. This should be fun! I will report back. In the meantime rip it up on the water!
I would start with the 0 degree stabilizer shim. But there are so many variables that maybe the -1.5 works perfect for your riding style. Good luck and report back.
I am using the Phantom iris x pro at moment and find with my setup I need a 1% shim to fly with the course race fuselage and good pumping (Phantom recommend .5 shim) I have had good speed out at moment( for me ) but considering selling and going to Patrick but don't know if my ability is an the level to justify and extra chunk of cash.
I have had all the fuses - black 115, 115+, 105 and now the new starboard fuses. In my experience at least the shim is matched for the rear wing rather than for the fuse. So for example - I use the old 255 rear with the -1.5shim (equivalent to -2 255 with +.5 shim) on every fuse. The black fuse doesn't have any shims so keeps it simple.Once I have found the right shim for my rear wing I rarely change it regardless of fuse.
I wouldn't get hung up on this fuse is only for slalom, etc. I use all the fuses for everything. Just sail the angles that feel most comfortable.
Select to expand quoteshaneNZ said..
I have had all the fuses - black 115, 115+, 105 and now the new starboard fuses. In my experience at least the shim is matched for the rear wing rather than for the fuse. So for example - I use the old 255 rear with the -1.5shim (equivalent to -2 255 with +.5 shim) on every fuse. The black fuse doesn't have any shims so keeps it simple.Once I have found the right shim for my rear wing I rarely change it regardless of fuse.
I wouldn't get hung up on this fuse is only for slalom, etc. I use all the fuses for everything. Just sail the angles that feel most comfortable.
I'm surprised how much shiming mast rake and fuselage stab
Select to expand quoteZenFoiler said..
Hello everyone,
My setup is the following: FutureFly 187 foil board, Starboard 85cm mast, 105 fuselage, 900 front wing, 255 back wing (not -2
version) the wing was accompanied with a +1 shim. I used a 1.7? shim in the mast tunnel that translated to a mast rake of 1.4? away from the front tip of the board. Lastly, I had a Ezzy Cross 5.7 sail rig to its minimal downhaul. The wind was blowing around 12-13kns.
The problem that I was having was trying to get the rig flying. The few times that I got it flying, it was difficult to control and keep
flying. I had to use a lot of back foot pressure to keep the nose up and I could only get the rig flying in one direction.
Well, I thought that if I could barely get the rig flying with the current setup then increasing the rake would solve the problem, so I installed a shim of 2.1? that translated to 2.8? rake of the mast. Well, this just made it worse I couldn't get up at all. Now I'm left with the option of going in the opposite direction with the shim maybe 0.5?, no shim or turning the shim around an have the rake of the mast move towards the tip of the board.
If anyone has any ideas that can be shared, it would be much appreciated.
Thank You!
Hi, I'm using a Starboard Freeride 150 foil board, with Starboard foils: 95 alloy mast, Evo Mk1 105 fuse, 900 FW and a (-2) 255 RW. I think I found from another thread on here that putting two marks on the mast track at about 108 and 104cm is useful. I am also struggling to find that magic setup, but I now have loads of notes on sail combinations (Foilglide 6, 7, or 8m), UJ position, shim (+0.5 or +1), and how it all felt. Talking to a local IQ Foiler recently, I am currently sticking with the +1 shim and tweaking around that - although interesting to hear ShaneNZ say he sticks with the +0.5. I'm 5ft 8 and about 85Kg in all the kit!
Earlier this week, I had both the 7 and 8m out on that setup and found it rear-foot heavy until it was powered up and doing over 15Kts. That has perhaps been my problem in the past, not powering it properly (and having the stones to hang on)!
