I find it interesting how these two brands have focused on different disciplines wing and wind I'm aware there are many excellent others in the market place but quite interesting in sab and starb.
Sabfoil seems completely focused on wing foiling development (market forces I guess) and appears no interest in wind foiling where as starboard appears focused mostly on wind foiling (IQ racing too) and not have the DNA for wing foiling. Starboard freeride front wing still have winglets / gullwing whereas sabfoil dropped them few years ago in favour of blade type mabe for wave and surfing I'm sure you can use sabfoil on wind foiling and starboard on wing foiling interested in what the thoughts on these two brands.
Interested in replies, currently on starboard but feel an upgrade coming later in the year as my skills improve and kit gets tired.
I think their different directions are more than likely based on time in the industry, and starboards already solid base in the windsurf associated side of things. They are/were already heavily invested in wind foiling, so didn't see the logic in doing anything more than putting a wing foil set up on offer along with everything else they do.
where as SAB foil (as far as i know) are quite fresh in comparison. So they've put their money on winging as the future. They've probably had a good basis to make that decision. im quite sure winging has out sold everything else wind/water based in the past few years. But starting on that basis, they've seen fit to diversify on that niche they've selected.
the difference in wing tips, i think is more to do with what the individual designers think is the better suited shape than anything else. I've ridden f4 and starboard, which have different wing tips, and overall differently shaped wings. They definitely have a very different feel to each other. Some of which can be attributed to the different wing tips.
whose got it right? Not sure.
I think all brands have put most of their time into expanding into other foil sports eg wing, pump and surf but outside of IQ foil I am not sure about starboard has put any more effort into windfoil than sab. Seems to me many more people are on sab for freeride windfoil gear than starboard. Berrowne might know which PWA guys are on sab or starboard foils versus other brands like F4, phantom etc?
F4 has put lots of time into windfoil as well as other sports. If my garage wasn't full of sab gear I would probably be on F4 or Axis
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
I think all brands have put most of their time into expanding into other foil sports eg wing, pump and surf but outside of IQ foil I am not sure about starboard has put any more effort into windfoil than sab. Seems to me many more people are on sab for freeride windfoil gear than starboard. Berrowne might know which PWA guys are on sab or starboard foils versus other brands like F4, phantom etc?
F4 has put lots of time into windfoil as well as other sports. If my garage wasn't full of sab gear I would probably be on F4 or Axis
Im not so sure about that. The few that have chosen SAB foil here that i've spoken to have said the wind foil orientated foils SAB have are very limited. They are using wings that fit into the general range, on one of the few windfoil geometry fuses on offer. But they are enjoying what is there.
Race wise looking at their website, to me looks even more limited. They seem quite kite and wing orientated. Starboard do seem to have leaned much more to race foils than anything else though. Not much free ride there to speak of.
F4 have definitely invested plenty into windfoiling.
For race or freeride?
I know a few windfoilers in very light wind using the big SAB wings.
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About 2 months ago, they released the 95VK and 2 fuse for wind foil racing (Red Devil). 3 front wings will fit. Connection is 2xM8 mast to fuse. Kraken series. Still wondering if the mast to tuttle is sufficient. Also the fuse length offerings are much shorter then competition.
Select to expand quotenerdycross said..
Sabfoil seems completely focused on wing foiling development (market forces I guess) and appears no interest in wind foiling where as starboard appears focused mostly on wind foiling (IQ racing too) and not have the DNA for wing foiling.
i guess it's a matter of perspective. haven't looked at Sabfoil (formerly known as Moses) recent developments, but i can tell this about Starboard on the wing/wave/sup/pump etc.:
for 2023, they have four different wing families, each targeted to a specific use/ride style, from waves to racing, and within each family, they have multiple sizes of wings. by my count, that's eighteen different front wings available. i'd say that's quite a selection.
also, last year they made some changes to make more robust their QuickLock wing mount architecture, and for this year they have redesigned their carbon mast; to me that shows commitment to product improvement.
those two things put together, don't really give me the impression of a company that does "not have the DNA for wing foiling", as you put it.
their efforts on windsurf foiling in the past couple of years haven't exactly been at the same level; on the contrary, at the consumer level, choices seem to have been pared down significantly for 2023. also, don't read anything on the fact that there is no development on iQFoil: there isn't supposed to be any! the olympic kit is set at least thru the 2024 games.Select to expand quotenerdycross said..
Starboard freeride front wing still have winglets / gullwing whereas sabfoil dropped them few years ago in favour of blade type mabe for wave and surfing
i don't read much into those differences as there is no single "right answer" for front wing design for all uses. take a look at some of the things being experimented with on the AC boats and you'll see that winglets are still very much a thing.
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
where as SAB foil (as far as i know) are quite fresh in comparison.
not quite. they were known as "Moses" before, and six or so years ago, they were THE foil to have for (non-race) kite foiling. so in some ways going big on wing/surf/pump etc. is almost a more natural progression than windsurf foiling.Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
The few that have chosen SAB foil here that i've spoken to have said the wind foil orientated foils SAB have are very limited. They are using wings that fit into the general range, on one of the few windfoil geometry fuses on offer. But they are enjoying what is there.
before the wingdingthing exploded, i used some of their product and (mostly) enjoyed it. yes, the wings were mostly leveraged over from the extensive kite portfolio and generally very good and with adequate fuselage geometries. where they were very weak and completely lost me was on the masts: they were like noodles. then a bunch of internal incompatibilities started to pop up.
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
Berrowne might know which PWA guys are on sab or starboard foils versus other brands like F4, phantom etc?
as he hasn't chimed in, i thought i might. i didn't see the equipment registration forms for Japan last year, but did see the one for Germany (likely still available somewhere in the bowels of the PWA site.
spoiler alert: no riders of consequence registered either brand; in fact, no rider registered SABfoil, and the three riders who registered Starboard, were of local competitor caliber (that is to say, no full-time touring pro registered Starboard).
the lion's share of registrations were, as i recall, in the following order: Phantom, Z-foils, and F4, with NP having their riders on their kit (and being competitive as well).Select to expand quotethedoor said..
F4 has put lots of time into windfoil as well as other sports.
correct. but they have also made many internal changes that cross-vintage compatibility in their product (both in wind and wing) is not quite assured
