After getting better on the free ride foil, I noticed one of our foilers moved to Starboard 115+ foil set up with 550-800 front wing and I could see that he is going as fast as the regular slalom sailors or even faster. It seems the speed or race foil set-up providing more stable run as pitch less noticeable compared to the free rides, his jibes are also much better with incredible speed. He is definitely talented but I think the speed is also providing stable turn for the jibe. At our beach, many use Moses, Slingshot, Armstrong but the Starboard race set-up is markedly faster. I tried to find detailed information on the web for comparison though some info randomly pop-ups in in some discussions, it is limited. It would be great if someone with race foil experience provide more information in terms of transitioning from free ride foils to race set-up, board, sail and other brands with race foils etc.
Smaller foils are faster.
Hi aspect is the fastest shape currently.
Racier sails have lots of stability, encouraging more speed.
Talented riders can push the limits.
But very rare to ever see a foiler, besides a top 5 pro, come anywhere near the speed of a good recreational freerider on freeride gear. I usually windfoil on a 600 sq cm front foil, 210 stab. It's slow compared to good windsurfers.
I have been using Armstrong high aspect HA1125 (similar to Moses W1000 in terms of dimensions) and compared to my 1550 or 1850 mid aspect foils, it is faster but my friend with SB race set up significantly faster than all free ride foils. It appears the race foils markedly faster than HA free ride foils.
I have mostly used freeride foils, but had a few sessions on the Starboard GT-R plus setup with the 800 front wing and the 95+ fuse (which, I believe, racers also use for slalom in powered conditions, but they use a smaller stabilizer). Without even trying, speeds were a few knots faster than on the freeride foils. But the smaller wing needed about 4 knots more speed for stable foiling (13 kn vs. 9 kn for the i84, based an speed announcements from the phone while foiling). So you'd have to take a lot more speed into your jibe than on a freeride foils. Since it's usually choppy where I foil, and my foil jibes are a not good in chop, I have not even tried jibing with the freerace setup.
As for sensitivity to chop, that seems to be largely determine by foil size and speed. Larger foils will react more to the up and down movements of the water. The i84 (~2060 cm2) reacts a lot more than the Time Code 68 (1100 cm2), and the Starboard Supercruiser 1700 and the Armstrong 1850 seem similar to the i76. That's at similar speeds; going faster reduces the sensitivity. The faster foiler I have seen was a guy on kite racing gear doing 30+ knots in chop on a ~600 cm2 foil. The chop, which was large enough for fun rides on a freeride foil, seemed to completely disappear for him; there was no visible up and down movement of his board.
How fast you'll go on a race setup will largely depend on how fast you are willing to go, your skills, and (to some extend) on the conditions. After a couple of hundred slow sessions on freeride foils, it will take me a while to get used to the higher speeds on faster foils, and I probably will never reach the speeds of guys who don't mind overfoiling and crashing at 30+ knots. But still, I think a (free-)race foil can add a whole new level of fun.
High aspect wings & race fuselages are a lot more blocked compared to feeride equipment because of the dimensions just being larger. In my opinion that makes them easier to jibe because they are more stable longitudinally and take more preassure to push through the turn. Ofcourse jibing a fast foil is easiest if you enter with speed and jibe in the gusts, same as normal windsurfing. Only at speed will the high aspect foils really also become stable laterally (side to side).
Interesting description, "blocked".
I do find, windfoil not wingfoil, that my 600 sq cm front wing jibes just the same as my 1150 or my 1220. Of course, more boatspeed needed.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
...But the smaller wing needed about 4 knots more speed for stable foiling (13 kn vs. 9 kn for the i84, based an speed announcements from the phone while foiling). So you'd have to take a lot more speed into your jibe than on a freeride foils. ...
The thing is, though, that because of the higher drag of big LA wings like the 84, you don't necessarily need more wind to be going 13 knots on something like the 800. It may take slightly more energy to get off the water but once up, in my experience, the better glide of smaller high aspect wings evens things out (ie you develop the speed you need to get through a jibe). Where the big wings help, imho, with someone learning to jibe is that they are more forgiving if you start to run out of energy where a smaller, faster wing requires the commitment to come in at speed and not bleed it off before hand. This echoes WoH's comments above.
You are also seeing this in the enthusiasm for the new, faster and slimmer HA Phantasm wings that people are glowing about where they are remarking on the performance and early flight of wings smaller than, say, the i76.
I started on the NP Pinkie, moved to the Starboard GT-R and then went to full race set up, similar to the IQ Foil and i wouldnt go back. I did try my old gt-r set up the other day and it felt terrible. The race kit gets going way earlier, stays up through the lulls and is very fast, so for me its the best bang for buck set up as i get so much more flying on it, and its exhilarating sailing rather than just cruising.
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
I started on the NP Pinkie, moved to the Starboard GT-R and then went to full race set up, similar to the IQ Foil and i wouldnt go back. I did try my old gt-r set up the other day and it felt terrible. The race kit gets going way earlier, stays up through the lulls and is very fast, so for me its the best bang for buck set up as i get so much more flying on it, and its exhilarating sailing rather than just cruising.
This is what I am expecting if I could learn to manage the higher speed. I am not sure if I want to go back to larger sails (>8 m) but may be necessary for race foil set-up. My understanding is that the 115+ system puts the front foil further providing a better lift. I am not able to compare free ride foils to the race set up i.e. 1850 mid aspect foil gives better lift than 1550 or i84 better than i76 etc but how do you compare the i76 to race foil with 800 or 550 wing.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..Maddlad said..
I started on the NP Pinkie, moved to the Starboard GT-R and then went to full race set up, similar to the IQ Foil and i wouldnt go back. I did try my old gt-r set up the other day and it felt terrible. The race kit gets going way earlier, stays up through the lulls and is very fast, so for me its the best bang for buck set up as i get so much more flying on it, and its exhilarating sailing rather than just cruising.
This is what I am expecting if I could learn to manage the higher speed. I am not sure if I want to go back to larger sails (>8 m) but may be necessary for race foil set-up. My understanding is that the 115+ system puts the front foil further providing a better lift. I am not able to compare free ride foils to the race set up i.e. 1850 mid aspect foil gives better lift than 1550 or i84 better than i76 etc but how do you compare the i76 to race foil with 800 or 550 wing.
I've been on the i99, i76, 900, and now the 650. I'm not at a super advanced level but I can make them all work.
The i76 feels very slow in comparison to the 900, the i99 feels like driving a bus now. I've broken 20mph on the i76 but I had to be overpowered and really pushing it. It will not point upwind or downwind (without waves) like the race foils will. You feel the waves a lot more on the i76, which you may want for some purposes (but you'll need a board that has a good center position for the foil). The race foils cut through them.
Longer fuses feel a lot more locked in and stable. I can hike out on the i76 when powered up but often it's easier to just depower and sheet out and coast on the i76, especially if the swells are large.
With race foils, it's really nice to get going in lighter winds and just go charging upwind and downwind at extreme angles at high speed. I've had to unlearn then relearn my windsurfing stance while foiling, and finally getting comfortable hiked out on race foils. It feels a lot better that way, in both straps and harnessed in.
The downside of big, cammed race sails is carrying them around and uphauling them when you drop them. Thankfully, the big race foil boards are pretty floaty, but when the swell is up in ~20knots and the luff sleeve fills with water, with the board rocking around, it becomes a bit of a nightmare. That's when I would want to rig smaller or switch to a fin.
I've only had one session on the 650 so far but it can go in 10-12 knots if you are rigged big and can pump. It just doesn't feel as stable until you're moving closer to 20mph, but otherwise I liked the feeling. The 900 is a lot more forgiving and is ridable in a lot of conditions with a ton of lift, but you need board width to reign it in.
Moving from the i76 to the starboard IQ race set up was a bit terrifying at first but you get used to the feeling and speeds.
almost two years ago I went from the infinity 84 to the starboard race setup with the 1000 wing and never went back to the 86 (it is literally collecting dust). I sail at a gusty lake and noticed that two of my buddies were getting on the foil as early as I did but they were much faster and kept going in the lulls so I decided to buy the starboard foil.
yes, the race setup feels (and is) faster than the 84, but you are in much more control than with the 84. For example, going with the 84 at 20 mph felt like I was about to crash all the time, whereas with the SB I can comfortably sail at that speed. Yes, the + fuselages put the wing further forward so it has more lift than the non + (or regular) fuselage. But what makes the race foils more stable is mainly the length of the fuselage. I use the 115+ all the time and when I move to the 95+ I can tell it is harder to control pitch.
Regarding take-off speed, the race foil needs more board speed, but since it is less draggy and feels more slippery than the 84, you can take off basically with the same wind speed.
Regarding gybes, yes, speed is your friend, but we are not talking about white knuckle speed, you just need more speed entering the turn (remember that it is easier to foil at higher speed with the race foil so that is not an issue).
I am using a free race sail (8.5 Sailworks Flyer FR) and it is light, it has three cambers and narrow pocket so there is no much water if you drop the sail, and it has an amazing range. Since I do not race, I think a free race foil sail is a very good compromise for weekend warriors.
the 1000 is amazing at pointing high and low wind foiling. I heard that the 800 is more like an overall wing (about to buy it). The 650 is fast, needs a lot of board speed, but it is also a fun wing (and also stable!).
It should not take you that much time to get used to a race foil.
I'm the same as a few above. Changed from Super Cruiser to GTR Plus and glad I did. I was initially going to pick up a Freeride Plus but couldn't get one, no regrets. I'm enjoying my foiling more now as I have more speed sensation. I dont think I'm missing out much bottom end as I'm carrying more speed to glide through the lulls. Yes I need more sail power to get foiling, but I prefer that anyway.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..
After getting better on the free ride foil, I noticed one of our foilers moved to Starboard 115+ foil set up with 550-800 front wing and I could see that he is going as fast as the regular slalom sailors or even faster. It seems the speed or race foil set-up providing more stable run as pitch less noticeable compared to the free rides, his jibes are also much better with incredible speed. He is definitely talented but I think the speed is also providing stable turn for the jibe. At our beach, many use Moses, Slingshot, Armstrong but the Starboard race set-up is markedly faster. I tried to find detailed information on the web for comparison though some info randomly pop-ups in in some discussions, it is limited. It would be great if someone with race foil experience provide more information in terms of transitioning from free ride foils to race set-up, board, sail and other brands with race foils etc.
What a lot of dudes seem to miss about freeride windfoiling kit is how fast and tight you can carve and turn on swells.
Nothing I've seen on the ocean can downwind carve at speed as well.
So sure freeride foils might top out at about 24 knots (about the same speed as a B&J board) but that's heaps fast enough to experience significant G forces in the turns. And the Infinity 76 is brilliant at it, when you've had the hours of practice necessary to control the lift from swell boosts 
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..
What a lot of dudes seem to miss about freeride windfoiling kit is how fast and tight you can carve and turn on swells.
Nothing I've seen on the ocean can downwind carve at speed as well.
So sure freeride foils might top out at about 24 knots (about the same speed as a B&J board) but that's heaps fast enough to experience significant G forces in the turns. And the Infinity 76 is brilliant at it, when you've had the hours of practice necessary to control the lift from swell boosts
Good point. All comments seem to be about improved straight line speed. All good of that is your personal style and suits your local pond. I assume (I have no experience) that the smaller slalom wings are much less manoeuvrable in turning and riding swell?
Select to expand quoteLoonie said..
I assume (I have no experience) that the smaller slalom wings are much less manoeuvrable in turning and riding swell?
Less width and less area means better turning. But as aeroegnr pointed out, the smaller slalom wings need a lot more speed to be stable. At a lot of places, that much more speed may mean you outrun the swell. But if you have fast and big waves, you may even need a very fast wing. Even in our slow chop, my wife was very happy about the extra speed from the Armstrong 1550 V2 compared to the i84 and i99, and she's looking for smaller and better turning wings already.
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..
What a lot of dudes seem to miss about freeride windfoiling kit is how fast and tight you can carve and turn on swells.
Nothing I've seen on the ocean can downwind carve at speed as well.
So sure freeride foils might top out at about 24 knots (about the same speed as a B&J board) but that's heaps fast enough to experience significant G forces in the turns. And the Infinity 76 is brilliant at it, when you've had the hours of practice necessary to control the lift from swell boosts
You're reminding me that I need to set my straps inboard on my Blast sometime and try carving swells on the i76
Just an observation..
I was out this weekend on my SSv3114, i76 using a 4.5 sail. 14-20 knots. There was another guy on an IQ foil with 7+ size sail. He was certainly faster, but also only doing straight lines, weather by choice or necessity, idk, but that board is as wide as a sidewalk compared to my 114 
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..
Just an observation..
I was out this weekend on my SSv3114, i76 using a 4.5 sail. 14-20 knots. There was another guy on an IQ foil with 7+ size sail. He was certainly faster, but also only doing straight lines, weather by choice or necessity, idk, but that board is as wide as a sidewalk compared to my 114
Its what you make of it I guess. Ofcourse a 7m is not gonna be fun in the turns. In 14-20 knots I (95kg) could be on 4.2, if the gusts really deliver I'd be on 3.8, and thats with a 900cm2/800mm high aspect freestyle/freerace foil & 65x180cm board.
Its a misconception you need a large board to make a wide high aspect foil wing work, they do just as well on small boards. A small board with a small sail will turn & be fun just as nicely with a small high aspect foil, I can put this kit through all manners of jibes & 360s just fine.
If you really go race fuselage your turns will become wider, but the foil will do 360s just as well, just a little bigger arcs, maybe thats a nice thing given you'd be going faster aswell.
Only thing you're not gonna be doing with such small wings is riding swells, that remains in the realm of 1200+ wings, but they dont have to be low aspect either.
In my opinion nothing beats the small sail / small board / small high aspect wing combo for lakes. Get up in the gusts and just have glide for days to keep going in the lulls, with the sail easy enough to chuck around and turn on a dime.
I've just ordered this with the aim to windfoil more in the lighter breezes we get. Looks to tick all the boxes.
Axis ART 999 Review - YouTube
Gusty flat water, race all the way. More performance, more engaging. With the 95 fuselage it's got plenty of response and carve.
It just happens to get much easier to ride around the same speed that the first foil starts getting difficult.
Steady wind with swell I'd rather be on my 1300cm2 mid aspect. It can nearly keep up with a race setup using similar sails but slows down enough to play on swell.
I no longer enjoy the low aspect stuff, it's all downsides to me.
Select to expand quoteBender said..
I've just ordered this with the aim to windfoil more in the lighter breezes we get. Looks to tick all the boxes.
Axis ART 999 Review - YouTube
Look forward to hear how it goes, seems to me that for windfoiling wider foils = slower carving. That was my experience with the PTM 926.
Although probably less of an issue with extreme high aspect (less area in the tips) like this Axis 99.
It'd be awesome to get early lift-off/glide, speed and super carves from one foil wing.
Can't imagine that a wide HA wing will ever turn as fast/tight or downwind as brilliantly as the Infinity 65 (width 65cms, area 841cm2, 16mm thick) - but happy to be proved wrong.
Crazy how easily an 80kg rider can fly the 65 in only 15 knots (with a 5.9m).
Select to expand quoteCan't imagine that a wide HA wing will ever turn as fast/tight or downwind as brilliantly as the Infinity 65 (width 65cms, area 841cm2, 16mm thick) - but happy to be proved wrong.
Crazy how easily an 80kg rider can fly the 65 in only 15 knots (with a 5.9m).
That Infinity 65 looks massive. My fave at the moment is the starboard 550 ( 55cm wide 550cm2). I use in from 15 knots with a 7m, and i am only 57kg a side. :)))
Select to expand quoteDarrylG said..
That Infinity 65 looks massive. My fave at the moment is the starboard 550 ( 55cm wide 550cm2). I use in from 15 knots with a 7m, and i am only 57kg a side. :)))
Horses for courses - like to see you downwind carve 2m windswells offshore with your 550 
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
Only thing you're not gonna be doing with such small wings is riding swells, that remains in the realm of 1200+ wings, but they dont have to be low aspect either.
The reports from using the i65 seem to disagree. My favorite wing for riding swells is the TimeCode 68, 1100 cm2. Turns better and has a lot better ride than i76/i84 or SuperCruiser 1700. For 20+ knots, I can imagine a smaller wing would be even better. It Slingshot had a better mast-fuse connection, I'd buy the i65, but I hate coming back to the beach and finding that the screws holding things together are loose after a 90 minute session.
