Has anyone used the RRD X-Fire 129 L board for foiling, and if you have what do you think about it?
Thanks!
It's probably worth waiting for a used dedicated foil board or saving for one. The geometry is so much better
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
It's probably worth waiting for a used dedicated foil board or saving for one. The geometry is so much better
Ah, do not want a foil board, have demoed them, too short, wide, bulky, and heavy! But the X-Fire appears to have better geometry than my Bolt. Right now on my Bolt the mast base is all the way back, and it is balanced, but would like to have the option to get it closer to the foil and use my 2-bolt mast base (can not use it on Bolt). Also, X-Fire foil box is farther forward than Bolt, that would place foil farther forward.
I would hope that a newer combo board in that size should be optimized for foiling over fin. As long as the mast track and tuttle are not much further forward than your bolt I think it should work fine. Also don't want the rear strap too far forward of the fin box, if you use back strap.
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
I would hope that a newer combo board in that size should be optimized for foiling over fin. As long as the mast track and tuttle are not much further forward than your bolt I think it should work fine. Also don't want the rear strap too far forward of the fin box, if you use back strap.
It is a full on slalom race board, with a concave deck which I dislike but know how to deal with. Mast track is farther back and foil box is farther forward versus my Bolt 135, and X-Fire is about 4" wider at the rear foot straps and overall a little shorter (15 cm) and wider (5 cm) than my Bolt 135.
The Bolt is perfectly balanced with the mast base all the way back, but it would be nice to see how it feels to get the mast base closer to the foil box and be able to use my 2-bolt mast base, always liked the easy on/off of the sail/mast with the 2-bolt Streamlined quick release base, but can not use on the Bolt if I want the mast base all the way back at the end of the track.
Your bolt isn't balanced, you've simply gotten used to an unbalanced setup. If it was balanced you'd be gybing off the front foot instead of what you are currently doing.
Get a foil board.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..aeroegnr said..
It's probably worth waiting for a used dedicated foil board or saving for one. The geometry is so much better
Ah, do not want a foil board, have demoed them, too short, wide, bulky, and heavy! But the X-Fire appears to have better geometry than my Bolt. Right now on my Bolt the mast base is all the way back, and it is balanced, but would like to have the option to get it closer to the foil and use my 2-bolt mast base (can not use it on Bolt). Also, X-Fire foil box is farther forward than Bolt, that would place foil farther forward.
The width helps substantially when jibing and the shortness makes a big difference in feel once in the air and you are used to it. You're going to be in a similar situation as the Bolt, with more money into a suboptimal situation.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
Your bolt isn't balanced, you've simply gotten used to an unbalanced setup. If it was balanced you'd be gybing off the front foot instead of what you are currently doing.
Get a foil board.
Hey Grantmac I know you are giving me good advice, But I am just getting comfortable going into the gybe powered up where I am somewhat front footed, before that was just going into it too slow at the end of the gust when it felt safe, and so was back footed.
Bolt delam is fixed and cured, I am ready to get back out, just need some wind!
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..Sandman1221 said..aeroegnr said..
It's probably worth waiting for a used dedicated foil board or saving for one. The geometry is so much better
Ah, do not want a foil board, have demoed them, too short, wide, bulky, and heavy! But the X-Fire appears to have better geometry than my Bolt. Right now on my Bolt the mast base is all the way back, and it is balanced, but would like to have the option to get it closer to the foil and use my 2-bolt mast base (can not use it on Bolt). Also, X-Fire foil box is farther forward than Bolt, that would place foil farther forward.
The width helps substantially when jibing and the shortness makes a big difference in feel once in the air and you are used to it. You're going to be in a similar situation as the Bolt, with more money into a suboptimal situation.
Aero I know you, like Grant, are giving me good advice, but I just do not want a big/short foil board! Got my hands on a Exocet 80 recently, it was huge/wide/short and heavy compared to my Bolt. And I like to drop onto the swell and surf it downwind with the board on the water, would not want to do that with a dedicated foil board!
Slalom boards are perfect for me to foil, sure, maybe takes more technique to gybe them, but I will be there soon!
And good to hear the extra width of the X-Fire is a plus, figured that and the ability to move the mast track back more would be a plus over the Bolt.
If you're sure you want another big slalom board stay away from the Severne Alien 145. 81cm wide, weighs under 19 lb, compatible with any foil you bolt on it, good long mast track, flat deck, foils up if you smile at it and has very nice manners just skimming downwind as you describe. It's somewhat similar dimensionally to the Exocet you didn't like but behaves very differently. If you try it you'll be out a couple of grand right away. I have the slightly bigger 155 (which replaced a big dual-purpose Tillo) and it's also extremely versatile.
I've had a go foiling with my V10 X-Fire 129.
I wanted to give slalom foiling ago (as opposed to my regular Formula Foil course racing setup) without buying a new board to start with.
So far I've only been out a couple of times but am using a Starboard foil (105+ fuselage, 650fw, -255tw) and found it worked better than I expected. Downwind it's great and seemed ok in the gybes but upwind and on a reach the tail is a bit narrow at the backfoot to get the most out of the foil. I'm thinking of making something similar to the Starboard heel extenders so I can try it out for a bit longer before deciding to stick with slalom foiling or not.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
And I like to drop onto the swell and surf it downwind with the board on the water, would not want to do that with a dedicated foil board!
As opposed to foiling down same swell with 30% less drag and more ability to carve a turn? Think about that for a minute and realize why every prone foiler is so jazzed up about being able to foil. Watch the difference between the foiling surfers and regular surfers in this video below. You've already got a board for fin sailing. With all the repairs and dings, it's not going to be worth a lot used. The right gear does make a difference.
want to go foiling, get a foil board; or a wave board if you want to go wave sailing. a board that "does everything" is good at nothing.
another piece of good advice not followed 
Select to expand quotebel29 said..
want to go foiling, get a foil board; or a wave board if you want to go wave sailing. a board that "does everything" is good at nothing.
another piece of good advice not followed
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Select to expand quoteHangOver said..
I've had a go foiling with my V10 X-Fire 129.
I wanted to give slalom foiling ago (as opposed to my regular Formula Foil course racing setup) without buying a new board to start with.
So far I've only been out a couple of times but am using a Starboard foil (105+ fuselage, 650fw, -255tw) and found it worked better than I expected. Downwind it's great and seemed ok in the gybes but upwind and on a reach the tail is a bit narrow at the backfoot to get the most out of the foil. I'm thinking of making something similar to the Starboard heel extenders so I can try it out for a bit longer before deciding to stick with slalom foiling or not.
Thank you HangOver, just the experience I was looking for! The tail on my Bolt is even narrower, so anything more would be good. But I can go hard upwind, leaning out, fast enough to do flying breaches and land them and keep on going without a significant drop in speed on my Bolt!
Select to expand quoteAwalkspoiled said..
If you're sure you want another big slalom board stay away from the Severne Alien 145. 81cm wide, weighs under 19 lb, compatible with any foil you bolt on it, good long mast track, flat deck, foils up if you smile at it and has very nice manners just skimming downwind as you describe. It's somewhat similar dimensionally to the Exocet you didn't like but behaves very differently. If you try it you'll be out a couple of grand right away. I have the slightly bigger 155 (which replaced a big dual-purpose Tillo) and it's also extremely versatile.
Thanks AWS, is a little on the short side at 210, but will keep an eye on it.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..Sandman1221 said..
And I like to drop onto the swell and surf it downwind with the board on the water, would not want to do that with a dedicated foil board!
As opposed to foiling down same swell with 30% less drag and more ability to carve a turn? Think about that for a minute and realize why every prone foiler is so jazzed up about being able to foil. Watch the difference between the foiling surfers and regular surfers in this video below. You've already got a board for fin sailing. With all the repairs and dings, it's not going to be worth a lot used. The right gear does make a difference.
What I meant Paducah, was shoot along the wave trough with the board on the water, and then come up on the foil and head downwind to get back to shore. The thing about a slalom board for foiling is it handles great on the water, have saved my self from so many crashes because when I hit the water my surfing reflexes kick in and I recover my balance.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..Sandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Now on 128l, 213cm, 80cm Simmer windfoil board www.simmerstyle.com/boards/product.aspx?modelNr=10351
I think a Blackbird SL foil www.simmerstyle.com/foils/product.aspx?modelNr=10356
Thanks PhilUK, Yeah, that 1st video is the one I was talking about with Ben on a slalom board.
In second video with 210 cm foil board he does a tack and the nose goes under on flat water with him a lightweight rider, that is why I do not want a short foil board, try doing that in 2-3' waves. Bolt at 243 cm is long enough to keep me on top of the water in a tack. When I go out into the bay I tack to get out into the middle quickly where the wind is, then out there in middle tack or gybe, and then coming back to shore gybe all the way back.
When I demoed a foil board that is what happened to me on flat water, nose went under very easily.
Select to expand quotebel29 said..
thanks for proving my point 
You are F-ing welcome!
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..PhilUK said..Sandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Now on 128l, 213cm, 80cm Simmer windfoil board www.simmerstyle.com/boards/product.aspx?modelNr=10351
I think a Blackbird SL foil www.simmerstyle.com/foils/product.aspx?modelNr=10356
Thanks PhilUK, Yeah, that 1st video is the one I was talking about with Ben on a slalom board.
In second video with 210 cm foil board he does a tack and the nose goes under on flat water with him a lightweight rider, that is why I do not want a short foil board, try doing that in 2-3' waves. Bolt at 243 cm is long enough to keep me on top of the water in a tack. When I go out into the bay I tack to get out into the middle quickly where the wind is, then out there in middle tack or gybe, and then coming back to shore gybe all the way back.
When I demoed a foil board that is what happened to me on flat water, nose went under very easily.
The foilx 145 is only 193cm and I can tack that in flat water no problem and reliably enough in 1-2ft bay swells when I time it, but why not just jibe or helitack? I'm not that good and I don't bother trying to regular tack my smaller wave boards. I mean you seem really set on this board for an issue that could be dealt with by different techniques.
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..Sandman1221 said..PhilUK said..Sandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Now on 128l, 213cm, 80cm Simmer windfoil board www.simmerstyle.com/boards/product.aspx?modelNr=10351
I think a Blackbird SL foil www.simmerstyle.com/foils/product.aspx?modelNr=10356
Thanks PhilUK, Yeah, that 1st video is the one I was talking about with Ben on a slalom board.
In second video with 210 cm foil board he does a tack and the nose goes under on flat water with him a lightweight rider, that is why I do not want a short foil board, try doing that in 2-3' waves. Bolt at 243 cm is long enough to keep me on top of the water in a tack. When I go out into the bay I tack to get out into the middle quickly where the wind is, then out there in middle tack or gybe, and then coming back to shore gybe all the way back.
When I demoed a foil board that is what happened to me on flat water, nose went under very easily.
The foilx 145 is only 193cm and I can tack that in flat water no problem and reliably enough in 1-2ft bay swells when I time it, but why not just jibe or helitack? I'm not that good and I don't bother trying to regular tack my smaller wave boards. I mean you seem really set on this board for an issue that could be dealt with by different techniques.
Cause I want to get out to the middle of the bay asap, lose ground on every gybe compared to a tack going out to the middle of the bay. And while I try to go upwind as much as possible, in really light winds crosswind to a little downwind is all I get so would again loose ground with a gybe versus a tack.
Oh, and I have up to 1-1/4 mile runs, like to take a break with the gusty conditions we get, easier to take a break and then resume by just completing the tack.
One concern with the X-Fire 129 is it is 5 cm wider than the Bolt 135, someone here once said that for very 10 cm of increased board width you need another meter of sail to get up on the foil.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..aeroegnr said..Sandman1221 said..PhilUK said..Sandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Now on 128l, 213cm, 80cm Simmer windfoil board www.simmerstyle.com/boards/product.aspx?modelNr=10351
I think a Blackbird SL foil www.simmerstyle.com/foils/product.aspx?modelNr=10356
Thanks PhilUK, Yeah, that 1st video is the one I was talking about with Ben on a slalom board.
In second video with 210 cm foil board he does a tack and the nose goes under on flat water with him a lightweight rider, that is why I do not want a short foil board, try doing that in 2-3' waves. Bolt at 243 cm is long enough to keep me on top of the water in a tack. When I go out into the bay I tack to get out into the middle quickly where the wind is, then out there in middle tack or gybe, and then coming back to shore gybe all the way back.
When I demoed a foil board that is what happened to me on flat water, nose went under very easily.
The foilx 145 is only 193cm and I can tack that in flat water no problem and reliably enough in 1-2ft bay swells when I time it, but why not just jibe or helitack? I'm not that good and I don't bother trying to regular tack my smaller wave boards. I mean you seem really set on this board for an issue that could be dealt with by different techniques.
Cause I want to get out to the middle of the bay asap, lose ground on every gybe compared to a tack going out to the middle of the bay. And while I try to go upwind as much as possible, in really light winds crosswind to a little downwind is all I get so would again loose ground with a gybe versus a tack.
Oh, and I have up to 1-1/4 mile runs, like to take a break with the gusty conditions we get, easier to take a break and then resume by just completing the tack.
If you need to take a break after such a short run you are either very unfit or your set up is miles out causing fatigue. If you can't foil for at least an hour non stop there is something wrong.
Start listening to advice rather than asking for it and ignoring it, you might get somewhere.
Just go get the damn x-fire.
There are so many reasons why it's a bad idea, and why you should listen to all advice above, but you won't. You're here for validation not advice, so just go get the board.
Select to expand quoteSwindy said..Sandman1221 said..aeroegnr said..Sandman1221 said..PhilUK said..Sandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Now on 128l, 213cm, 80cm Simmer windfoil board www.simmerstyle.com/boards/product.aspx?modelNr=10351
I think a Blackbird SL foil www.simmerstyle.com/foils/product.aspx?modelNr=10356
Thanks PhilUK, Yeah, that 1st video is the one I was talking about with Ben on a slalom board.
In second video with 210 cm foil board he does a tack and the nose goes under on flat water with him a lightweight rider, that is why I do not want a short foil board, try doing that in 2-3' waves. Bolt at 243 cm is long enough to keep me on top of the water in a tack. When I go out into the bay I tack to get out into the middle quickly where the wind is, then out there in middle tack or gybe, and then coming back to shore gybe all the way back.
When I demoed a foil board that is what happened to me on flat water, nose went under very easily.
The foilx 145 is only 193cm and I can tack that in flat water no problem and reliably enough in 1-2ft bay swells when I time it, but why not just jibe or helitack? I'm not that good and I don't bother trying to regular tack my smaller wave boards. I mean you seem really set on this board for an issue that could be dealt with by different techniques.
Cause I want to get out to the middle of the bay asap, lose ground on every gybe compared to a tack going out to the middle of the bay. And while I try to go upwind as much as possible, in really light winds crosswind to a little downwind is all I get so would again loose ground with a gybe versus a tack.
Oh, and I have up to 1-1/4 mile runs, like to take a break with the gusty conditions we get, easier to take a break and then resume by just completing the tack.
If you need to take a break after such a short run you are either very unfit or your set up is miles out causing fatigue. If you can't foil for at least an hour non stop there is something wrong.
Start listening to advice rather than asking for it and ignoring it, you might get somewhere.
Boy, you must be an old guy Swindy! I said I like to takes breaks, yes, since when I go out to the middle of the bay I stay out there for 1-3 hours! But I think it is more than that, hope you solve the problems!
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
Just go get the damn x-fire.
There are so many reasons why it's a bad idea, and why you should listen to all advice above, but you won't. You're here for validation not advice, so just go get the board.
I am here for advice from someone who has used the X-Fire as a foil board, just like the title says
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..aeroegnr said..Sandman1221 said..PhilUK said..Sandman1221 said..
bel29 have you ever watched WindsurfTV, or PWATV?, the guy who does that show also races, he had a video on his first attempts to learn a foiling gybe, took him 2days to get it on an AFS foil and a regular slalom board, and was doing nice smooth foiling gybes.
Ben Proffitt, ex PWA wave sailor and pretty adaptable to any form of sailing.
Simmer 126l Monster freerace, 82cm wide, 230cm long.
Now on 128l, 213cm, 80cm Simmer windfoil board www.simmerstyle.com/boards/product.aspx?modelNr=10351
I think a Blackbird SL foil www.simmerstyle.com/foils/product.aspx?modelNr=10356
Thanks PhilUK, Yeah, that 1st video is the one I was talking about with Ben on a slalom board.
In second video with 210 cm foil board he does a tack and the nose goes under on flat water with him a lightweight rider, that is why I do not want a short foil board, try doing that in 2-3' waves. Bolt at 243 cm is long enough to keep me on top of the water in a tack. When I go out into the bay I tack to get out into the middle quickly where the wind is, then out there in middle tack or gybe, and then coming back to shore gybe all the way back.
When I demoed a foil board that is what happened to me on flat water, nose went under very easily.
The foilx 145 is only 193cm and I can tack that in flat water no problem and reliably enough in 1-2ft bay swells when I time it, but why not just jibe or helitack? I'm not that good and I don't bother trying to regular tack my smaller wave boards. I mean you seem really set on this board for an issue that could be dealt with by different techniques.
Cause I want to get out to the middle of the bay asap, lose ground on every gybe compared to a tack going out to the middle of the bay. And while I try to go upwind as much as possible, in really light winds crosswind to a little downwind is all I get so would again loose ground with a gybe versus a tack.
Oh, and I have up to 1-1/4 mile runs, like to take a break with the gusty conditions we get, easier to take a break and then resume by just completing the tack.
This is because you are an inefficient sailor with a poorly balanced foil on a board which isn't suitable. You have an opportunity to fix two of those things with a new board and are intent on replicating the same poor setup.
You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink. Sorry couldn't help myself.
You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink. Sorry couldn't help myself.
