Hello
I've bought a lokefoil Envol (78 cm wide front wing, 950 cm2) to be used with a 118 liter 66 cm wide board, and I have much difficulties to control the board because the leeward edge of the board comes up every time I'm in the air, and this also makes me impossible to go upwind. I've changed the footstraps to the outside position and pushed with my heels, and it has improved only a little bit. I weight 69 kg and use 5,2 m2 sail in 12 knots
I've seen on the net that other guy have had the same problem with another brand's 80 cm wide front wing and 82 cm wide board.
Has someone solved this problem in any way? Do I have to change the board or the foil to be confortable? The long chord front wing foils like the starboard supercruiser or infinity 76 have the same problem?
Thanks.
Hi Lecum, Supercruiser on my Rocket Plus 113 at 73 wide has none of these problems. I even rode it strapless before switching to a pocket rocket, again strapless and no need to stand far off centerline.
Do you really mean leeward edge up? Most performance oriented foils do the opposite.
I have a 80 cm wide Goya Bolt 135L and an AFS Wind95 foil with the 800F front wing which is 80 cm wide and 1120 cm2 and it works great. I would not go with a narrower board because you lose leverage on the foil.
I'm riding the 80cm Supercruiser on a narrow tailed 72cm board with inboard straps. No problems.
Select to expand quotelairdkilgour said..
Hi Lecum, Supercruiser on my Rocket Plus 113 at 73 wide has none of these problems. I even rode it strapless before switching to a pocket rocket, again strapless and no need to stand far off centerline.
Do you really mean leeward edge up? Most performance oriented foils do the opposite.
Yes, I made a mistake, I meant the windward edge up. When you say performance oriented foils you mean race foils? Then this foil needs a wide board. I saw Baltz Muller with this foil in a narrow board in youtube doing lots of tricks.
Thanks.
I'm using a 79cm wide foil on a 66cm wide board. I'm just learning but I've been able to press down on the windward rail and head upwind without problems. The hardest part for me with the narrow board is uphauling in choppy water with small swell, I'm really envious of seeing people on wider boards that can just lean back and pick up the sail. For me it's a total song and dance and I'm falling in tons. I'm spending more time in the water than foiling. I hope to soon handle a slightly larger sail so I can waterstart easier (using a 3.3 in 18-22 knots).
It sounds like more of a stance issue.
A board wider than the foil certainly makes life easier when you're trying to manipulate the foil with your feet, powered up, leaning out, going upwind. But generally if you're free riding around, standing fairly upright, manoeuvring around shouldn't be a problem.
the more horizontal you get in relation to the board, the less of your own weight you have over it to manipulate the board and foil. The board starts to feel heavy and sluggish to respond to toe/heel foot movements. Then if the windward rail kicks up its harder to muscle it back down again, because you've no longer got your own weight working for you.
It's possible to use freeride foils on relatively narrow boards, for example a Slingshot Infinity 76 with a 60 cm wide FS board, or an SS i84 with a 66 cm wide board (both boards have windsurf-typical, narrower tails). Upwind angles can be better with wider boards, but even these combos beat typical windsurfing angles by a wide margin.
Your foil seem quite a bit faster than the Slingshot foils, though. That would mean more apparent wind and more mast foot pressure, which may need a wider board to counteract. That said, there is one guy who sometimes foils at our local spot with a Lokefoil who uses a relatively narrow older board, and does not seem to have any problems going upwind.
To some extend, going upwind on the foil can be a matter of practice and power, just like shortboarding or kiting. I recall having trouble going upwind when I started foiling, on the same gear I am using now. My upwind angles are still much better when I am well powered on the foil than in marginal conditions.
My SS Dialer 130 is 70cm wide & i use the SS76 wing. A mate here is on the SB Supercruiser on a SB150lx85 wide board. We both go well enough for beginners. Both are upright stances.
Select to expand quoteshmish said..
I'm using a 79cm wide foil on a 66cm wide board. I'm just learning but I've been able to press down on the windward rail and head upwind without problems. The hardest part for me with the narrow board is uphauling in choppy water with small swell, I'm really envious of seeing people on wider boards that can just lean back and pick up the sail. For me it's a total song and dance and I'm falling in tons. I'm spending more time in the water than foiling. I hope to soon handle a slightly larger sail so I can waterstart easier (using a 3.3 in 18-22 knots).
Thanks all. Very intersting info.
Hi Shmish, you are the closest case to me, Could you tell me the kind of foil you have, your weight and if you have used it in low wind (10-15 knots)?
You have to get the windward rail down before you load up the sail. Also you can't put a tonne of weight into the harness.
Basically get the board pointed upwind then sheet in as the apparent wind moves forward.
Old thread but I just saw that I was asked a question...
Mucel, I have a Moses (Sabfoil) 790 front wing. I'm trying to use it in lighter winds but I'm having problems not because of the foil but because of my technique and maybe my board. 15 knots I can do ok with with 5.5 sail (I think, I'm never more than 80% certain on what wind speed I'm in). I'm sure that if I had a foil specific sail it would be even better.
Grantmac, you mentioned in another thread that you have a fairly narrow tail. Do you find that you take out a larger sail because of this? My example from yesterday at Squamish - a few others were flying on their foil pretty easily whereas I could only get up on a fairly large gust (for the day). A couple others had 5.3 and maybe 10kg on me. I was on a 4.6. They said their sales were perfect, and maybe even overpowered at times. However, they had foil boards with huge wide tails. I was trying to pump with my rig, but any kind of pressure on the tail and it would really dig in. I think if I had rigged a 5.5 I would have gotten on the foil, but then maybe I would have been carrying too much sail.
Select to expand quoteshmish said..
Old thread but I just saw that I was asked a question...
Mucel, I have a Moses (Sabfoil) 790 front wing. I'm trying to use it in lighter winds but I'm having problems not because of the foil but because of my technique and maybe my board. 15 knots I can do ok with with 5.5 sail (I think, I'm never more than 80% certain on what wind speed I'm in). I'm sure that if I had a foil specific sail it would be even better.
Grantmac, you mentioned in another thread that you have a fairly narrow tail. Do you find that you take out a larger sail because of this? My example from yesterday at Squamish - a few others were flying on their foil pretty easily whereas I could only get up on a fairly large gust (for the day). A couple others had 5.3 and maybe 10kg on me. I was on a 4.6. They said their sales were perfect, and maybe even overpowered at times. However, they had foil boards with huge wide tails. I was trying to pump with my rig, but any kind of pressure on the tail and it would really dig in. I think if I had rigged a 5.5 I would have gotten on the foil, but then maybe I would have been carrying too much sail.
Hello Shmish
I'm happy because I'm a windfoil beginner and I usually make a lot of questions in this forum and now I can give you some real experience based on your foil. So far I have foiled 12 times more or less so I've just begun, but the best session I've had was using a Simmer Black Bird foil which I rented last summer holidays.
That was my 5th session and I began to fly stably 20 seconds after pumping. I've only tested 4 foils (including two mines), and this is the best one by far for me. I mention it because I think it's the same moses 790 but sold under Simmer brand. Only to be sure, it had a 1500 cm2 front wing, 90 cm fuselage and 85 cm mast, tuttle head.
I flied in 15 knots with a 4,7 m2 guru wave sail and I weight 70 kg. The board was nothing special, a freeride RRD, 245 cm x 71 cm, 120 litres, tuttle box behind rear straps, footstraps inside position and mast base at the back of the track. I have no skills in windfoiling yet.
I expect it will be useful.
Kind regards.
I rig the same as everyone else my size, maybe a touch smaller. The narrow tail requires I get a bit of speed before moving into the foiling position, it also limits my maximum sail size and upwind capabilities.
With narrow tail boards, you pump before getting into footstraps, then move to front, then back, while still pumping.
I usually foil with a Naish 600 front foil, at 72 kg. Typical 9-15 knot breeze, 5.0 sail.
I sometimes use the AFS R1000 wing on my 70 cm wide foil board and it works great.
I know Kevin Ellway who designed the race wings for AFS and he is a very technically minded guy and he sees no relationship between wing span and board width. Apart from the obvious - more likely to kick it.
I'd say there is a correlation between board width and mast length.
As regards things being tippy etc you have to remember you are balancing on the foil and not the board and the foil wings are a fraction the size of the surface area of the board.
