Hello there,
i am new here and i have read some topics but i have not found anything about how a better windsurfing beginner can get right into foiling or what minimum knowledge one should have to start foiling. Maybe there is someone here who has done this and can share his experience.
About my situation: I have a RRD firemove 120l, lightweight with 65kg and live near a spot that often has gusty winds in the 8-12 knot range as a base, so foiling would greatly increase my days on the water.
On the firemove I now have the following skills. Fast tack, non planing slow jibe, first uncontrolled planing experiences without being in the footstraps, harness riding on all courses.
With my skill level, does it make sense to switch directly to a foil? The board has a foil ready deep tuttle box and is very wide at 79 cm. So i guess that would fit.
If so, what kind of beginner foil would you recommend me? Which sail size for the above conditions? If not, what skills do you think I should have to try foiling? Footstraps is of course the next logical step.
I am curious about your opinions.
Thanks and best regards
I learned on my Blast, which is also a hybrid fin/foil board, having only been planing a few times in the straps. I used the Slingshot 76 (B position on the switch fuse),
Do you have others around you that foil? It'll really help speed things up. I was frustrated for a while, not being able to get it going, but eventually figured it out after a lot of tweaking. The more you are willing to learn to pump the foil and sail, the quicker you will learn. At your weight, you may not need a whole lot to get going, but it will definitely help in more marginal conditions.
Having not planed much, it will feel CRAZY FASTw and slippery once you get going, but you'll eventually get used to it. Now, the 76 to me feels slow as most of my time is with a race foil.
There are some very young kids around here, some not even quite teenagers, that have barely been windsurfing and they go out on small rigs and slingshot gear and they pick it up pretty quickly. They also appear fearless, but they also looked 40-50kg and pretty indestructible. My learning curve was a bit longer as I hadn't figured out yet where to find the other foilers. Once I was around them though, it got a lot easier.
I think basic windsurfing skills in a natural progression to foiling because once your up on the foil its a whole new learning curve and windsurfing doesn't apply so much. What I mean by that.... (for reference, I started windsurfing in 75', and am a new foiler. )
One of my mistakes was I was leaning out trying to load the rig up like I would normally blast on a fin board. Foiling requires a lot more finesse. Micro weight shifts, constant minor sail trim etc. To keep flying straight. A much more upright stance to de-power the rig when gusts hit. This is from a beginner on a free ride rig (SS 114, I76 wing). The formula type racing rig, seems those guys hang way out using massive boards and sails. 120L board should be pretty ideal to get started. I'm 140 lbs, and took a while to slog well on 114L board. There is a lot more "tuning" involved with foiling, so some patience is required. I started in late April and got things pretty well sorted out now for straight line foiling and carving around (fun), but still suck at jibes 
. I do get in a lot of water time though as I live on the waterfront and all my gear is rigged on my dock ready to go. 2 weeks was spent healing up from kicking the foil water starting, so be very aware of where the foil is. No need to water start.
I've seen several people with that skillset move directly to foiling with success.
I started foiling maybe 18 months after I first set foot on a windsurf board, I lived in a place with light winds as well. It absolutely let me progress much faster than just slogging around.
Go for it!
Really, starting to foil was one of the best things I did to become some sort of a windsurfer. I could barely get my Blackfoot in the strap when I started foiling. We have the same sort of conditions here and mucking around with a 8.5qm sail in light-wind was not that much fun for heavy me. The board starts planing much earlier with a foil underneath, so you can get used to your straps at lower speeds.
David
Using a good freeride foil like the Fanatic Flow, Slingshot Infinity or Starboard Super Cruiser will help.
You'll never know if you don't give it a go.
Start with a big foil front wing and a small sail, it will be a lot easier. Also remove the back straps and maybe even the front straps in the beginning. Make sure to add a nose protector to your board.
Hey kcebc,
Definitely get into it! You have some skills, and that will be a good start to progress to foiling. The big thing with foiling is that if you have lots of days of sub 15 knots, foiling will increase your time on water, and you'll spend more time getting better at it. You just wont get the fun factor or improvement sailing in 10-15 knots with conventional gear.
Sounds like your board will be fine. As for sails, lots of us have used old wave sails. We generally find what you would use on conventional gear, you drop 1.5-2m of sail area on the foil. You can also get foil specific sails, but learn the game first before you upgrade.
As for foils, yeah big area foils will generally lift you earlier. Lower aspect thick foils tend to provide lots of grunt to get you up early and in lighter winds, but top out earlier too.
Learning to fly is relatively straight forwards and pretty easy after a few goes. Gybing and manouvering is more difficult. So tack to start with or do non flying gybes.
I'd learn in 15 knots or so. Let the sail 'grunt' you up so that you don't need to refine your pumping technique to get up and going. As you improve, you'll likely want to get going in lighter conditions, and that's when pumping starts. Improve your technique by watching you tube vids and other foilers at your local spot.
The other thing it may help you do is progress to wingdinging. That's lots of fun too.
Yes, go for it. But invest in a pair of knee pads. Even a 40 year veteran of riding a fin has found that a lot of uphauling is involved. Your knees will thank you. RRDs have a very aggressive non-skid.
I think you have about the minimum skills required. Being able to get in the straps is a pro, but not required because its actually much easier with a foil under your board.
I would add, wear full length leg coverings to protect your legs from foil cuts while in the water around the board and foil. Neoprene pants are best, but in hot weather I use compression pants with Gorilla tape from below the knee to the ankle. The shin area is the worst because of the bone underneath the shin, does not take much to cut the skin in that area.
As for foil, I would recommend an AFS all carbon foil, the 85 cm mast foil is actually quite reasonable in price, with solid carbon mast, wings, fuselage and stabilizer. No bent mast, or loose screws with it. Can purchase direct from AFS, just remember VAT comes off the price when you enter an non-EU address.
Many thanks for your feedback. The opinions are very clear, that helps me a lot in my decision. Then I will definitely try it and look for a good used foil. A new carbon foil is unfortunately too expensive. First of all I want to keep the costs low. Maybe foiling is against all expectations nothing for me.
As for leg covering. It is practically never so warm here that i go out without neoprene. And since i'm a newbie after all i'm very used to uphaul a lot on my RRD :D
What about the old Fanatic H9 Foil? I could get that very cheap. Opinions differ somewhat, but apparently it is supposed to be a good starter foil for lightweights. Should work for me i guess.
Another problem is that days with, say, 15 knots are really rare for us. I have two freeride sails in 6m? and 7.4 m?. Should I then go out with the large sail on days with 10-12 knots when I can not yet pump? Or is such a large sail counterproductive at the beginning?
Select to expand quotekcebc said..
Many thanks for your feedback. The opinions are very clear, that helps me a lot in my decision. Then I will definitely try it and look for a good used foil. A new carbon foil is unfortunately too expensive. First of all I want to keep the costs low. Maybe foiling is against all expectations nothing for me.
As for leg covering. It is practically never so warm here that i go out without neoprene. And since i'm a newbie after all i'm very used to uphaul a lot on my RRD :D
What about the old Fanatic H9 Foil? I could get that very cheap. Opinions differ somewhat, but apparently it is supposed to be a good starter foil for lightweights. Should work for me i guess.
Another problem is that days with, say, 15 knots are really rare for us. I have two freeride sails in 6m? and 7.4 m?. Should I then go out with the large sail on days with 10-12 knots when I can not yet pump? Or is such a large sail counterproductive at the beginning?
Avoid first gen windfoils like the H9.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..kcebc said..
Many thanks for your feedback. The opinions are very clear, that helps me a lot in my decision. Then I will definitely try it and look for a good used foil. A new carbon foil is unfortunately too expensive. First of all I want to keep the costs low. Maybe foiling is against all expectations nothing for me.
As for leg covering. It is practically never so warm here that i go out without neoprene. And since i'm a newbie after all i'm very used to uphaul a lot on my RRD :D
What about the old Fanatic H9 Foil? I could get that very cheap. Opinions differ somewhat, but apparently it is supposed to be a good starter foil for lightweights. Should work for me i guess.
Another problem is that days with, say, 15 knots are really rare for us. I have two freeride sails in 6m? and 7.4 m?. Should I then go out with the large sail on days with 10-12 knots when I can not yet pump? Or is such a large sail counterproductive at the beginning?
Avoid first gen windfoils like the H9.
Ditto, look for a good 2nd generation freefoil. It's worth the money, eg the Fanatic Flow
If you get the H9 cheap, you should consider IT. I learned on it and didn't find it too Bad. I switched to another one after some time because I found IT instabile in the gybes. I'm 85 k.
Avoid the H9, going bigger on sail can work if your board has the volume to support it.
I was able to test the Fanatic Flow H9 and now have the first short flights behind me. It was really crazy and totally awesome, but I found it to be way too fast. Is also due to the conditions, we had partly gusts with well over 20 knots.
My decision is made, I want to buy my own foil. Preferably a much slower one with enough lift for light winds. Starboard Supercruiser and Slingshot Infinity i76 should fall into this category, but unfortunately they are hard to get used. Which foils would still come into question? Would the Infinity i84 also be something for me?
You're only 65kg? Man, that would make the i76 super easy in light wind. Not sure I'd want an i84 at that weight but I only own the 76 and 99 and I'm ~85kg
You may just want go rig a smaller sail and also work on going harder up/downwind to kill the power.
Starboard makes a configuration with the 1100 wing and 95+ fuselage which would be a great bet at your weight with lots of room to grow.
If your rig handling skills are good enough to do a sailboard (non-planing) jibe and you can easily tack your Firemove you should be ok. We all start at zero neuromuscular coordination when it comes to riding and pumping a foil. One thing I have noticed. Coincidence, association or cause and effect? Those of us with some skateboarding, snowboarding and or surfing skills seem to pick up riding a foil more efficiently sooner.
Similar size at 59kg. 30th season windsurfing and newbie foiler. Familiar with your board. My light wind windsurfing board is a v1 100L Firemove. But riding a Horue Tiny 110L for foiling. Windsurfing I tend to rig a sail sized for the gusts and board for the lulls. I've gotten too old. Into control and comfort. Sort of do the same for foiling. SS 76 or 84 and Ezzy Hydra Pro 5.5 or 4.5 for winds 5-25kts. Last weekend forgot the 76. Winds on Sat. were 11-20 kts. Sunday 7-15kts. Used the 4.5M with the 84 on both days. Just a real slow wing. But requires minimal board speed or a 2-3 sail/foil pumps in the single digit wind to foil. Crazy low stall speed & easy to pump through the single digit lulls. Never thought I would be foiling in single digit wind using a 4.5m sail. Still a beginner. Haven't made one foiling jibe. Jibes have started foiling and either backwind myself or end up transitioning to a windsurfing jibe.
Not sure if just me or something in common with most. Foiling real hard upwind is relatively easy. Running real deep downwind is a bit of an adventure. Need to remove the rear foot from the footstrap, position it centered and in front of the foot straps. Stance is real upright and more centered over the board. An adventure, but kickin fun luffed out and foiling the swells downwind. Until I breech and catapult. Not sure if developing bad technique habit. Self teaching to foil. Really could use some Pro instructions. Bit like my windsurfing experience of the early 90's. Took forever to learn to do a full on power jibe. Until one 2 hr private lesson from a Pro instructor.
As noted. Knee/shin protection. Uphaul is the new water start. Nonskid gets a bit hard on the knees. Wearing a 3/4 length shorty. The knee pads are well abraded. . JMHO, waterstarting mean you are probably using a bigger sail than necessary for foiling. When swimming around I more or less tuck my legs. Hitting even the leading edge of a wing once is enough. Hanging onto the boom for dear life when crashing has so far kept me far away from the foil on impact. When an option to water start happens I don't do any kicking. Let the sail alone lift me. I do wear a helmet and impact vest. But I'm Old.
Hi everyone! 1st post. Bit long. Sorry. Covid effect?
