I have searched the whole www for this answer but all I have come up with are obvious things like: longer back part of the fuse=better stability and the possibility to use a smaller stab with less drag.
What I would like to know is when you would prefer the short fuse with big stab option and when you would go for the longer stab with smaller stab for the same amount of stability and lift? I gues there is a difference in riding character but what is it?
Here is an example: starboards fuse 105+ has the front wing allmost on the same place as the fuse 95+. The freeride foil comes with 95+ fuse and 500stab, why did they choose that instead of the 105+ fuse with smaller stab with less drag? When I choose my next foil Im thinking about the 105+ with 255 stab for performance and 330 stab for max jibing leraning stability. Or the 95+ with the 500 stab for max stability and 330 stab for performance.
Kind regards
Select to expand quoteDjungelman said..
What I would like to know is when you would prefer the short fuse with big stab option and when you would go for the longer stab with smaller stab for the same amount of stability and lift? I gues there is a difference in riding character but what is it?
As a try hard racer/speedster i'd put the larger stab into storage/not use it. The larger stab (on a short fuse) is a compromise between the two sometimes different worlds of lift/stability and control.
A shorter fuse tail = less leverage for the stab, which means when you get hit by a gust, its easier to overwhelm the sudden lift by shifting your weight. Trade off is you pitch up and down more.
longer fuse tail = more leverage for the stab, which means less pitching, steadier ride. Trade off is when you get hit by a gust sometimes you're just going to be along for the ride.
sticking a bigger stab on a shorter fuse gives you lift (from the larger surface area of the stab) but at the same time the shorter fuse gives you the ability to stay on top of the situation, because you can overwhelm the lift easier with weight shift. All of which is great for a free ride foiler
the reason i stick with the smaller stab (255) on each different size fuse is because on the shorter fuse im looking for the lift to to not start kicking in till at a higher speed. The longer fuse you need to use the smaller stab anyway, because the larger stab would just deliver too much lift (using the smaller stab is more about how much lift you get, not just drag reduction).
the longer fuse is generally for upwind/downwind sailing, where you can use that extra lift to get better angles. The shorter fuse is great for more cross breeze type sailing.
Excellent reply. If I may add one thing is that a shorter stab, generally, is like a shorter wheelbase on a car. It will feel a bit more turny for freeride in swell, etc.
Thanks guys!
Then am I right in the following:
For a given amount of lift needed for lets say 16knots of wind, one can go for:
a) shorter back-fuse with bigger stab.
Pros, agility, control(meaning ability to parry gusts etc).
Cons, trade of is less pitch resistance the board can move upp and down more then one would like. More resistance from the stab=less speed.
b) longer back-fuse with smaller stab.
..the opposite from the above.
Another two questions! 1) For the same fuse and wind condition:
Slightly smaller stab with slightly more angle
or a slightly bigger stab with slightly less angle? Both within their window of optimal angle.
2) With the supercruiser I can change the stab angle quite a lot and then compensate by changing my foot position since I only use front straps. I never figured out what the altering of the stab angle does to the ease of jybing though. What type of stab angle makes the board the least prone to shift height when I move around the board during jibe attempts?
Select to expand quoteDjungelman said..
What type of stab angle makes the board the least prone to shift height when I move around the board during jibe attempts?
As some still working on flying through jibes consistently, trimming for more forward lift, or more lift in the shim, helped me keep the board from nose diving during jibes. Technique changes had a bigger effect but I didn't understand how out of shape my freeride kit was until riding something more standard. I ended up shifting my foil much further forward on the board and playing with strap positions.
Select to expand quoteDjungelman said..
Thanks guys!
Then am I right in the following:
For a given amount of lift needed for lets say 16knots of wind, one can go for:
a) shorter back-fuse with bigger stab.
Pros, agility, control(meaning ability to parry gusts etc).
Cons, trade of is less pitch resistance the board can move upp and down more then one would like. More resistance from the stab=less speed.
b) longer back-fuse with smaller stab.
..the opposite from the above.
Another two questions! 1) For the same fuse and wind condition:
Slightly smaller stab with slightly more angle
or a slightly bigger stab with slightly less angle? Both within their window of optimal angle.
2) With the supercruiser I can change the stab angle quite a lot and then compensate by changing my foot position since I only use front straps. I never figured out what the altering of the stab angle does to the ease of jybing though. What type of stab angle makes the board the least prone to shift height when I move around the board during jibe attempts?
With that foil if the nose touches down it tends to stick if the stabilizer angle is too low. Add 1/2 degree and to recovers much better. The supercruiser foil definitely likes more stab angle (2.5 - 3.0 degrees) than my current phantasm foils (2 degrees or less)
Select to expand quoteDjungelman said..
Thanks guys!
Then am I right in the following:
For a given amount of lift needed for lets say 16knots of wind, one can go for:
a) shorter back-fuse with bigger stab.
Pros, agility, control(meaning ability to parry gusts etc).
Cons, trade of is less pitch resistance the board can move upp and down more then one would like. More resistance from the stab=less speed.
b) longer back-fuse with smaller stab.
..the opposite from the above.
Another two questions! 1) For the same fuse and wind condition:
Slightly smaller stab with slightly more angle
or a slightly bigger stab with slightly less angle? Both within their window of optimal angle.
2) With the supercruiser I can change the stab angle quite a lot and then compensate by changing my foot position since I only use front straps. I never figured out what the altering of the stab angle does to the ease of jybing though. What type of stab angle makes the board the least prone to shift height when I move around the board during jibe attempts?
With that foil if the nose touches down it tends to stick if the stabilizer angle is too low. Add 1/2 degree and to recovers much better. The supercruiser foil definitely likes more stab angle (2.5 - 3.0 degrees) than my current phantasm foils (2 degrees or less)
Djungelman wrote: "What type of stab angle makes the board the least prone to shift height when I move around the board during jibe attempts?"
In my experience, moving around the board has 10x the effect on balance during a jibe than does the stab angle. Don't forget the also huge effect of sail mast base pressure which changes A LOT as you shift the sail around during the jibe, probably 5x. If the nose touches down during a jibe, simply step further aft. That has a bigger effect than stab angle.
So, shim the stab angle for overall performance and balance during reaches. Then work on mostly footwork and sail flip for the jibe.
Select to expand quoteDjungelman said..
Thanks guys!
Then am I right in the following:
For a given amount of lift needed for lets say 16knots of wind, one can go for:
a) shorter back-fuse with bigger stab.
Pros, agility, control(meaning ability to parry gusts etc).
Cons, trade of is less pitch resistance the board can move upp and down more then one would like. More resistance from the stab=less speed.
b) longer back-fuse with smaller stab.
..the opposite from the above.
Another two questions! 1) For the same fuse and wind condition:
Slightly smaller stab with slightly more angle
or a slightly bigger stab with slightly less angle? Both within their window of optimal angle.
2) With the supercruiser I can change the stab angle quite a lot and then compensate by changing my foot position since I only use front straps. I never figured out what the altering of the stab angle does to the ease of jybing though. What type of stab angle makes the board the least prone to shift height when I move around the board during jibe attempts?
More stab angle is indicative of more weight ahead of the foil ie CoG further ahead of CoL. This increases longitudinal stability - at the expense of more drag. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_stability
If you are working on your jibes, I'd suggest having the board trimmed for level flight when you've stepped across for the "carve" portion. It makes learning so much easier, imho, and a reason many of us encourage a slight bias to more pressure under the front foot while in flight. As the back foot steps up and across, you aren't nose diving. If you aren't using back straps not quite as important but you have to remember to step further back which isn't quite as comfortable, makes the foot change much more problematic on wider boards and you have enough going on to think about mid jibe.
Paducah is right. If your foil is more biased toward front foot pressure (say, 60/40) in level flight, you simply stay forward during your jibe footwork. You have to do this in order to prevent breaching when you "unweight" the sail during the flip.
If, on the other hand, you prefer (as I do) more 50/50 foot pressure in level flight at speed, you have to keep your footwork further aft during the jibe.
Your body weight is, by far, the biggest determiner of balance during both level flight as well as during the jibe. Position it accordingly.
Notice the people who can regularly gybe on the foil are recommending you setup for front foot pressure, those who cannot gybe on the foil are recommending 50/50.
Adjust your kit accordingly.
That particular foil wants the sail mast base as far back as possible and enough shim that you can lift your rear foot without immediately nose diving.
Not quite true, Grant. The Sailworks team all foil with 50/50 and they all make ALL their jibes. And, oh by the way, they are faster than everybody else. All you have to do is keep your feet further aft on the board during your jibe-chi.
The reason I don't like 60/40 is that I am strongly averse to picking my board out of my teeth all the time, and I do like to avoid burning out my front leg.
If ya got the pile-driver front leg for it, good, go 60/40 and jibe till the cows come home. Good for you.
