Hearing about situations on others loosing their foiling gear or the Hardware loosening out on the water, how tight is safe for fastening those screws and bolts to the board and slingshot foil gear? Should it be as tight as let's say, you fin is on slapper boards? I feel like I'm cheating on the foil hardware, because it's an Allen wrench instead of a Philips screw. I can get more tightening power from the Allen wrench. I don't want to over or under tighten.
Thanks!
Be realistic about what's going into what. If you're threading steel into steel you can go pretty darn tight. if you're threading steel into aluminum as with some of the Slingshot situations you can actually weaken the joint by over tightening, because you're bending the threads in the aluminum. Safest is to be moderate, retighten regularly and to break everything down and regrease every couple of outings.
^^^Thats a good point about steel to aluminum. I think foil companies should post torque tightening specs for there foils. When they design them there must be someone making a calculation for what bolt size they could use or how many bolts, etc. Some companies supply bolts that are less then ideal and yes people on here have broken the stock bolts connecting fuse to mast. I replaced the supplied slingshot bolts with A4-70. There was a thread on this stuff a while ago.
I am thinking about getting a small torque wrench for my foil for the bigger bolts like the mast to fuse and mast to Tuttle connection. For other small bolts and fin screws I would probably just hand tighten to avoid breaking the wings. I should probably be replacing the more high stress bolts every year(60 session) as they don't cost much.
I have not played around with a torque wrench on my foil, but know people who have and they say that they and others are way over tightening the bolts to the torque specs given for those bolts. I make those two mast to fuse bolts really tight I have to Snug them up for the first few sessions when I replace the bolts then after that they usually stay tight for a long time I probably over tighten those bolts Maybe, but the other problem with having them under tightened is If it creates play Between the Mast and fuse, because I know that can lead to an easy breakage of the bolt. And as discussed before not all setups float with the wings attached to the fuse.
Select to expand quoteCAN17 said..
I think foil companies should post torque tightening specs for there foils. When they design them there must be someone making a calculation for what bolt size they could use or how many bolts, etc. Some companies supply bolts that are less then ideal and yes people on here have broken the stock bolts connecting fuse to mast. I replaced the supplied slingshot bolts with A4-70. There was a thread on this stuff a while ago.
I am thinking about getting a small torque wrench for my foil for the bigger bolts like the mast to fuse and mast to Tuttle connection. For other small bolts and fin screws I would probably just hand tighten to avoid breaking the wings. I should probably be replacing the more high stress bolts every year(60 session) as they don't cost much.
I have not played around with a torque wrench on my foil, but know people who have and they say that they and others are way over tightening the bolts to the torque specs given for those bolts. I make those two mast to fuse bolts really tight I have to Snug them up for the first few sessions when I replace the bolts then after that they usually stay tight for a long time I probably over tighten those bolts Maybe, but the other problem with having them under tightened is If it creates play Between the Mast and fuse, because I know that can lead to an easy breakage of the bolt. And as discussed before not all setups float with the wings attached to the fuse.
Great points here! I think I am one of those who would rather have it tighter than not tight enough, hence over tightening by my part. The contact points from mast to fuse and big front wings to fuse don't seem ideal to me. So much surface area exposed out from the contact points. It almost feels I could work that front wing to fuse loose or break it If I work it side to side with some force added. Just testing the equipment a little I guess. I would of thought if there was a "T" bracket that connects from mast to fuse would help with the side to side forces, and a wider fuse to compensate for a "T" bracket. I guess it's a little more delicate than I thought on those contact points.
For most foils (except SS) the wings and stabs attach to the fuse on the PUSH side. That means the surface of the wing would be pushing onto the fuse regardless of whether there are screws or not. Because of this, you don't need to overtighten wing and stab screws. Snug them down tight, but don't get crazy about it.
That said, there are a few foils out there where the stab attaches to the PULL side (such as my AFS-2). This means that the stab is pulling on the fuse through the screws. However, since stab forces are a small percentage of wing forces, this pulling through the screws is no biggie. Just make sure they are tight.
And by the way, always always always grease the screws and their female holes to prevent spalling or sticking from corrosion. Marine grease or lithium grease work fine for this. Some people use TEF-GEL or graphite grease. In salt water don't longer than about a month between times to disassemble and re-grease.
What do you all think about adding a thin rubber washer under the stock washer that connects from board too foil? I do this with all my fins on my slapper board so the screw won't damage the finbox when I tighten it up.
And.... do I really need to grease the screws and threads if I disconnect the foil gear after every use? The only screws I'd want to grease would be screws connecting the tuttle head to mast and rear wing to stabilizer. Those would stay tight. All other screws, I'd remove after every session. Again the screws removed after every session, would they still need to be greased as well?
Specifically on the slingshot where it loosens are the big cap head screws holding the wing on and the tapered ones holding fuselage to mast. I don't find I need a lot of power to get the tuttle ones on correctly. Rubber washers are fine.
How I get around the loosening issue is using teflon "pipe dope" for the wing bolts. It's quite thick and white which lets it operate like very mild anti-sieze. Kind of a pain to clean up but stays useful for several applications. I also tighten while rocking the wing until it forms up then just torque slightly past that point.
I use marine grease on the fuselage to mast screws, especially the tapered part! This is critical since that taper needs lubrication to really snug up. Like the wing as I'm tightening I wiggle the fuselage until it forms up then add a little more torque.
I used to just torque everything without the wiggle and also had it loose by an hour in.
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..
The contact points from mast to fuse and big front wings to fuse don't seem ideal to me.
AFAIK, this (mast to fuse) is an issue with one company only. If there are others, I'd be interested in hearing about them. Most mast/fuse connections are socketed, some are integral (e.g. Horue, Loke) and Starboard uses the braces and belt method of both vertical screws and horizontal pins.
Big front wings that screw from the bottom shouldn't be an issue as the wing is pushing up against the fuse. The screws are mostly holding things in alignment.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
Big front wings that screw from the bottom shouldn't be an issue as the wing is pushing up against the fuse. The screws are mostly holding things in alignment.
Pushing or pulling on the fuselage?
Either way the strain on the bolts would be minor compared to the leverage when one side of the wing broaches before the other.
Grease is cheap insurance. It is always good when you completely disassemble after every session. I have found that grease is still in place and effective after a half dozen assemblings/disassemblings.
That said, the first time things stick together to the point where you cannot turn a screw or bolt to loosen it, will be when you use grease from then on.
In fresh water, this greasing thing is not much of an issue. Saltwater, however, is another story. Metal couple galvanic corrosion is greatly increased by the electrical conductivity of saltwater. Stainless screws/bolts are very good in resisting this. Titanium, too, but Ti is subject to spalling. Just grease all threads and keep your life problem-free.
I lost the front screw of my Moses foil, fuse to mast connection, but hadn't it tightened strong enough.
It's a conical connection, which gets pressed while foiling especially at the front screw. So it looses tension and can work itself out of the thread.
No issues with bolts coming loose on any slingshot wings.
no need to over tighten, back off all bolts one full turn and snug back tight before each time out.all local riders here use SS and had zero issues (That's like a combination of over 500 sessions in the last year).
The only problem I've read is people using the wrong length bolts and that's mainly on the tuttle adapter to mast side.
Wanted to hear from all of you out there already with now years of experience of foiling:
Do you really oil and pre-thread all screws with the silicon tape in your foil system every single time that you mount it up for going windfoiling?
I just got me SlingShot 84 cm kit here yesterday and have with interest gone through the entire info package on this from SlingShot. And here they say that you have to oil all screws every single time with some vegetable oil type they provided a small sample of with their foil kit.
Next to this, they also provided a small sample kit of like silicon take roll, like what you use for fitting water pipes in your home. And SlingShot say that each screw should be pr-winded with a few rounds of this silicon tape also.
Sounds like a lot of pre-work before being able to get out on the water each time?
Are all of you really doing this this way as described, or is that being over cautious?
And what are the consequences if not doing this?
Cyber.
heres my thoughts. I've had Slingshot gear and currently use Axis Foils.
Forget about the oil and thread tape, if you intend to part dis-assemble each session.
Tef-gel is the best long term product to use , if you leave the titanium or stainless bolts in the alumium parts. Use it very sparingly, and never try to apply it at the beach, It doesn't like sand.
This is is what I do:
Tuttle adaptor to mast - Tef gel (check/clean/reapply every 6weeks or so)
mast to fuselage - clean bolts, always dis-assemble every session
front wing - clean bolts, always dis-assemble every session
rear wing - tef gel, and leave it on fuselage.
try and keep all bolts as clean as possible, don't drop in sand or dirt. Give them a good clean with a wire brush every now and again.
The slinghot front wing spigot does has a tendency to corrode/pit the aluminium fuse because it has carbon inside the socket. This may have been an older blue wing problem. The New infinity wings might be better. Best to clean and pull apart easy session, plus i'm always switching front wings anyway for different wind strengths.
Enjoy foiling and get out there!
Select to expand quoteCyber said..
Wanted to hear from all of you out there already with now years of experience of foiling:
Do you really oil and pre-thread all screws with the silicon tape in your foil system every single time that you mount it up for going windfoiling?
I just got me SlingShot 84 cm kit here yesterday and have with interest gone through the entire info package on this from SlingShot. And here they say that you have to oil all screws every single time with some vegetable oil type they provided a small sample of with their foil kit.
Next to this, they also provided a small sample kit of like silicon take roll, like what you use for fitting water pipes in your home. And SlingShot say that each screw should be pr-winded with a few rounds of this silicon tape also.
Sounds like a lot of pre-work before being able to get out on the water each time?
Are all of you really doing this this way as described, or is that being over cautious?
And what are the consequences if not doing this?
I used teflon tape for a bit, but have switched to a teflon gel. I'm in fresh water so I am less concerned about it. Sometimes I use nothing at all. I also pretty much disassemble my entire kit everytime I get finished for the day. I have made more room in my truck bed now, so I may be able to leave it partially assembled this year. I plan to remove the mast and leave the rest assembled so I will definitely use teflon tape or gel, and reapply every couple of weeks.
I also bought a small foldable Allen wrench set that I can carry with me on the water to check the hardware now and then.
hello, in my rrd the threads were falsified of so much tightening or maybe of the teflon tape or small grains of sand, I had them greased with lanolin and teflon tape !! Although the wing is raging up at the time of pumping, it also forces down !!! I have lost the front wing !!!
I will have to do the 3 front threads again !!! Has someone happened to you?
Thank you baldy123, Excav8ter and foilarg! After studying the SlingShot packaging I just opened, it is indeed small sample packs of lanolin oil and Teflon tape that SlingShot has enclosed in the Infinity 84cm bundle pack that I got from them. And this is what they say must be reapplied for every single time we go out with it... Not sure why this should be required when using titanium, stainless steel screws and aluminium as materials being connected in this set?
Are you saying/observing that the screws are slowly but surely unscrewing themselves during windfoiling?
Loosing the foil to the bottom of the lake/ocean would clearly be a major loss... =8-!
I was all worried about it too in the beginning. I disassemble everything after each session except the rear wing on the fuselage and where the Tuttle head connects too the mast. Those two areas I grease the bolts, check them before every session and every 3-4 sessions, loosen them 5 turns and re-snug them back up. All other bolts I don't grease. I'm also in fresh water, so that helps. I don't put any Teflon tape on either. Every one gets there own system down for what works for them.
One thing I have noticed about the fasteners that I disassemble after every session is it seems that the fasteners are harder to break the snug to unscrew. I wonder if the water gets in there and sets the fasteners more snug tight? Nothing on the foil loosens up on the water, at least so far.
For what it's worth, Horue have advice on torque settings. Might well do same on my SS
Select to expand quoteCyber said..
Thank you baldy123, Excav8ter and foilarg! After studying the SlingShot packaging I just opened, it is indeed small sample packs of lanolin oil and Teflon tape that SlingShot has enclosed in the Infinity 84cm bundle pack that I got from them. And this is what they say must be reapplied for every single time we go out with it... Not sure why this should be required when using titanium, stainless steel screws and aluminium as materials being connected in this set?
Are you saying/observing that the screws are slowly but surely unscrewing themselves during windfoiling?
Loosing the foil to the bottom of the lake/ocean would clearly be a major loss... =8-!
I use the teflon tape and lanolin on my slingshot hardware. Never felt the need to use tef gel. I use the lanolin and tape on the track bolts too to act like a kind of loctite as I have had one vibrate free and fall out during a session.
Select to expand quotethedoor said..Cyber said..
Thank you baldy123, Excav8ter and foilarg! After studying the SlingShot packaging I just opened, it is indeed small sample packs of lanolin oil and Teflon tape that SlingShot has enclosed in the Infinity 84cm bundle pack that I got from them. And this is what they say must be reapplied for every single time we go out with it... Not sure why this should be required when using titanium, stainless steel screws and aluminium as materials being connected in this set?
Are you saying/observing that the screws are slowly but surely unscrewing themselves during windfoiling?
Loosing the foil to the bottom of the lake/ocean would clearly be a major loss... =8-!
I use the teflon tape and lanolin on my slingshot hardware. Never felt the need to use tef gel. I use the lanolin and tape on the track bolts too to act like a kind of loctite as I have had one vibrate free and fall out during a session.
Uh, thank you thedoor, so it does actually happen !
I will probably start out with using the lanolin oil and Teflon tape to get started and then see if that gel is easier to bring along as I get more experience with it. Btw guys and girls, I think I might have a defective fuselage in my brand-new kit, as been struggling all day just to try and get the Infinity 84cm assembled, but simply have to give up now. Its not possible, as I think they forgot to make the 'notch' as supposed to in 3 of the holes in the A-end of the fuselage stick... (don't know what the english word is to describe that thing inside a drilled hole that makes it pre-set for a machine screw to fit into it and tighten? Will create another thread just for that topic. Hope you can validate/help me out there, as think its so grave that I will have to send it back to SlingShot if I am correct in my fears....
