I don't follow foiling forum normally so i am sorry if this subject has been discussed, couldn't find it.
I decided to try windfoiling today after being let down by windguru for weeks, travelling for hours, booking hotels, just to watch foil kites from beach while waiting for wind to pick up.
I booked a 2 hour lesson for Wednesday, looks like its going to be 12-16kts. Foiling is relatively new here and i don't know how good the teacher is, but i have some doubts.
Which size wings and what size sail combos should the teacher give me for my 61kg and ~13-14kts flat water?
Thanks in advance
I'd say 4.0 to 4.6, depending on actual size of wing...they're measured differently, and design and weight...all different for the same number.
Coupled with a 100 liter + board, and around 1100 sq cm foil, you should easily fly in 11-17 k ot breezes, and get home in lulls down to 5 knots.
foil area is not a great measure of lift as other factors (eg aspect ratio, inclination angle etc) play a big role.
Do you know if you will be learning on race or freeride foil gear?
Many people would do well to start with a freeride wing in the 1500sqcm range eg infinity 76 from slingshot. Less if race foil gear.
beginners may want to take more sail area when learning so they can experience the foil eg 5m, as you get better you can drop down in sail size 4-4.5 as DLee suggests.
Teacher said board is 140lt, no more info, they use fanatic and tabou so after checking i guess its probably heavy spec fanatic stingray and beginner foil h9. Normal ones smallest size is 900cm2, much smaller than your advice, so i understand beginner wings are much bigger for easy lift, but would it be too much for my condition?
Listen to the instructor!
We all weigh much more than you, although I'm around 73 kgs.
140 is fine on board size, because you need to stand up holding the wing with 2 hands and NOT using your hands to stand. I learned on 150 liter boards.
Smaller foils have much less drag, so rise up with smaller wings.
You do not weigh 100 kilos!
12-16kts with your weight means that you likely won't have to do much pumping if you get the right rig. I wouldn't worry about the foil area that much.
With a 140L board you should get going pretty easily. Just listen to him and if you need to pump, it takes some practice but it will come and you will not need that big of a sail to get going. Hopefully he has a few different sizes so that you can switch to a bigger sail if you are struggling with pumping.
Thanks for the advice, looks like i don't need to worry about foil size at the moment, probably too much lift can be handled with mast foot position and sail size.
I plan to use my own rig to reduce the cost and weight, i have blade and hero sails, i guess they will work fine.
The Stingray 140 will be too big for you quickly. I'm 85 kgs and learned on the Stingray 125. I still use it, but it's too big often now. (Length). The H9 foil is not highly regarded. I think all of us who have tried the Flow series like them however. I'm telling you this so you don't buy the gear you're learning on after the lesson.
Personally I think something around 1200 cm2 would be a good size for you to learn on and a board about 115 L.
He'll be fine on the 140 for his first flights. Flat water and 12-16kts. Something easy to uphaul and stable. A narrower/smaller board won't make learning any easier. He'll be able to taxi waiting for a gust and, when it comes, plane off and gently get in the air. Six months down the road he can go smaller.
Source: 63.5 kg and foil both a 140 and 120l board.
FWIW,
I'm a new foiler, started late April. Got a SS114 v3. I'm 140 lbs., 59 Years, been fining since 75'. I knew it was a risk learning on a small board, but was willing to face the learning curve to avoid buying more gear in a year. Get as much time as you can on a larger rental. I'm on a I76 wing. 3.7 fringe is good for 15 -21 knots, 5.3 fringe works for 12ish, but is a bit much as the gusts roll in at 20ish. Just ordered a sailworks flyer 4.5, I hope will hit the sweet spot in the middle. Would be easier to learn on A 130 for sure. Easier to slog, and up haul.
The 114 has a small dance floor, it's takes some getting used to slogging home if the wind dies. Also up hauling in chop requires some circus monkey skills, but I'm over the hump now. Got a ton to learn, but I don't worry about getting back home in any condition any more. Fining was harder to get up wind. Foiling was just the opposite. Lol.
3 decent foilers learned around Berkeley, all your weight, started on 85 liter boards and 1050 foils, mostly 4.5 sails in 7-17 mph winds.
I'm 73 kgs, 2nd day on 95 liter board, 5.0 sail, breeze 3-15 mph...was fun, got long rides, swam final 200 yards to dock in 0-3 mph switch breeze.
At your weight, your board is big.
When I slog my 122 Naish, there is over 2" of water flowing above my rear straps, and 1" deep at front straps. I'm 73 kgs.
My bad, 2" of water flowing over the deck at the rear straps. They stick out of the water by about 1.5".
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Agree with WoH, make sure kit will be balanced. Can check to see if front wing will be between foot straps when foil is mounted in board, but mast track also needs to be far enough back. Goya Bolt 135 2019 has 1/4" to spare in the mast track to be balanced with an AFS W95 foil. Once you know what you want to buy post here to see if others have it and how balanced it is.
Settings are personal preference, and different settings can work for same size riders.
For instance, I'm 73 kg. I use exact same settings for freestyle wave windsurfing as I do with the Naish 122 with either 600 foil or 1220 foil.
Straps 21" apart, rear strap 1 hole up, foil mast full back, sail mast track 22" forward of front strap. Boom height 50.
Easy to transfer to bump n jump windsurfing g when the wind comes up.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..WhiteofHeart said..
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Agree with WoH, make sure kit will be balanced. Can check to see if front wing will be between foot straps when foil is mounted in board, but mast track also needs to be far enough back. Goya Bolt 135 2019 has 1/4" to spare in the mast track to be balanced with an AFS W95 foil. Once you know what you want to buy post here to see if others have it and how balanced it is.
Balance an area I'm still trying to figure out. I have to use a lot of front arm. In other words, If I release front hand from boom, mast would wing downwind quickly. I've tried moving the harness lines further forward, but still awkward. I can't let go of both hands even momentarily when in the harness. I'm using foot straps in most forward position, sail mast track almost all the way back, foil mast about 1" from full back, boom height at shoulder level on the SS114. Should I move the foil mast more forward to compensate ?. Sorry if I'm hi jacking thread.
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..Sandman1221 said..WhiteofHeart said..
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Agree with WoH, make sure kit will be balanced. Can check to see if front wing will be between foot straps when foil is mounted in board, but mast track also needs to be far enough back. Goya Bolt 135 2019 has 1/4" to spare in the mast track to be balanced with an AFS W95 foil. Once you know what you want to buy post here to see if others have it and how balanced it is.
Balance an area I'm still trying to figure out. I have to use a lot of front arm. In other words, If I release front hand from boom, mast would wing downwind quickly. I've tried moving the harness lines further forward, but still awkward. I can't let go of both hands even momentarily when in the harness. I'm using foot straps in most forward position, sail mast track almost all the way back, foil mast about 1" from full back, boom height at shoulder level on the SS114. Should I move the foil mast more forward to compensate ?. Sorry if I'm hi jacking thread.
Im not sure what you mean, but if its your sail which is moving when you let your hands go its 98% certain the harnesslines which need to move. If the mast falls away downwind you should move your lines forward until you can comfortably let go with both hands for a short duration in steady wind.
So i took one hour lesson with 140lt fanatic wind/wingfoil board and 2000cm2 carbon foil, 4.7 wave sail, 13-18kts, i liked it :))) so decided to order a kit next week after the second lesaon. I can rent and practice time to time till it arrives (probably one month+ at min, maybe 6-8 hours of practice) so i would like to get something i will not get bored of quickly, at least the board.
I am interested in wingfoil too so would prefer a wind/wing hybrid kit, thinking about jp freefoil 105lt and np glide wind hp 15. I plan to use it 10-16kts mostly, freeride, a little choppy and gusty.
What are your thoughts on these kind of hybrid boards?
Is 1500cm2 too small to start with, should i get 17 or 19 to be safe?
Select to expand quoteSea Lotus said..
So i took one hour lesson with 140lt fanatic wind/wingfoil board and 2000cm2 carbon foil, 4.7 wave sail, 13-18kts, i liked it :))) so decided to order a kit next week after the second lesaon. I can rent and practice time to time till it arrives (probably one month+ at min, maybe 6-8 hours of practice) so i would like to get something i will not get bored of quickly, at least the board.
I am interested in wingfoil too so would prefer a wind/wing hybrid kit, thinking about jp freefoil 105lt and np glide wind hp 15. I plan to use it 10-16kts mostly, freeride, a little choppy and gusty.
What are your thoughts on these kind of hybrid boards?
Is 1500cm2 too small to start with, should i get 17 or 19 to be safe?
The 15 is fine for windfoiling at your size. I'm no expert on winging but a bigger wing for dinging will probably be helpful. You could do a 13, too. It won't take off quite as quickly and first jibes will be a touch more difficult but you'd enjoy that size in the long run. btw, most of us end up with a quiver of foil wings because there are times we like to ride faster (smaller wings) and sometimes we like to slow down and play on swell, work on moves, etc (bigger wings). At your weight, you have more flexibility than a lot of people. fwiw, for my "big wing", 1100 is sufficient and I'm just a bit bigger than you.
The 105 will feel small in light winds. You can do it but the first sessions on it will be harder than something a bit bigger. Again, if 10-16 is really your prime foil range, a bit more float will make waiting for wind, tacks and take offs a bit easier.
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..Sandman1221 said..WhiteofHeart said..
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Agree with WoH, make sure kit will be balanced. Can check to see if front wing will be between foot straps when foil is mounted in board, but mast track also needs to be far enough back. Goya Bolt 135 2019 has 1/4" to spare in the mast track to be balanced with an AFS W95 foil. Once you know what you want to buy post here to see if others have it and how balanced it is.
Balance an area I'm still trying to figure out. I have to use a lot of front arm. In other words, If I release front hand from boom, mast would wing downwind quickly. I've tried moving the harness lines further forward, but still awkward. I can't let go of both hands even momentarily when in the harness. I'm using foot straps in most forward position, sail mast track almost all the way back, foil mast about 1" from full back, boom height at shoulder level on the SS114. Should I move the foil mast more forward to compensate ?. Sorry if I'm hi jacking thread.
not being able to adjust out front hand pressure is a fair sign that there's too much downward pressure on the harness lines. Do you use a seat harness?
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..WsurfAustin said..Sandman1221 said..WhiteofHeart said..
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Agree with WoH, make sure kit will be balanced. Can check to see if front wing will be between foot straps when foil is mounted in board, but mast track also needs to be far enough back. Goya Bolt 135 2019 has 1/4" to spare in the mast track to be balanced with an AFS W95 foil. Once you know what you want to buy post here to see if others have it and how balanced it is.
Balance an area I'm still trying to figure out. I have to use a lot of front arm. In other words, If I release front hand from boom, mast would wing downwind quickly. I've tried moving the harness lines further forward, but still awkward. I can't let go of both hands even momentarily when in the harness. I'm using foot straps in most forward position, sail mast track almost all the way back, foil mast about 1" from full back, boom height at shoulder level on the SS114. Should I move the foil mast more forward to compensate ?. Sorry if I'm hi jacking thread.
not being able to adjust out front hand pressure is a fair sign that there's too much downward pressure on the harness lines. Do you use a seat harness?
No, waist harness, but basically when I'm in the harness, the harness is not doing much because my front arm is taking most of the load. No way I can "one hand" the boom when hooked in, like on my fin board where everything is balanced. Boom higher or lower doesn't matter. I've just seen some SS videos where the rider appears balanced, where you could let go of the boom and maintain stable flight. Maybe sail tuning, moving draft would center the effort more. Unfortunately no wind to got out and tune.
WsurfAustin my first season nothing felt right so I raised the boom and pushed the harness lines forward with TOW things went back to what I use on my wave board. I am assuming your use the plate mount that came with the 76inf. I run the back of the plate at 3.5 I think ,pushing forward will increase lift, try running the sail mast plate about 3/4 of the way back but I think TOW will help more . Also looks like you foil on a inland lake probably gusty witch makes learning a bit more of a challenge.
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..Subsonic said..WsurfAustin said..Sandman1221 said..WhiteofHeart said..
Dont worry too much about foil & board size. As long as the kit is balanced (correct settings for the straps & mastfoot & foil placement), it will be fine for a beginner (:.
Agree with WoH, make sure kit will be balanced. Can check to see if front wing will be between foot straps when foil is mounted in board, but mast track also needs to be far enough back. Goya Bolt 135 2019 has 1/4" to spare in the mast track to be balanced with an AFS W95 foil. Once you know what you want to buy post here to see if others have it and how balanced it is.
Balance an area I'm still trying to figure out. I have to use a lot of front arm. In other words, If I release front hand from boom, mast would wing downwind quickly. I've tried moving the harness lines further forward, but still awkward. I can't let go of both hands even momentarily when in the harness. I'm using foot straps in most forward position, sail mast track almost all the way back, foil mast about 1" from full back, boom height at shoulder level on the SS114. Should I move the foil mast more forward to compensate ?. Sorry if I'm hi jacking thread.
not being able to adjust out front hand pressure is a fair sign that there's too much downward pressure on the harness lines. Do you use a seat harness?
No, waist harness, but basically when I'm in the harness, the harness is not doing much because my front arm is taking most of the load. No way I can "one hand" the boom when hooked in, like on my fin board where everything is balanced. Boom higher or lower doesn't matter. I've just seen some SS videos where the rider appears balanced, where you could let go of the boom and maintain stable flight. Maybe sail tuning, moving draft would center the effort more. Unfortunately no wind to got out and tune.
I'm not sure, really sounds like a harnessline problem. Releasing outhaul and downhaul moves the draft back too, but I dont think thats the right solution. I take it that when you sail unhooked, power is distributed evenly over the front and back hand?
Maybe try shorter lines? Something like 28-26" to start and go from there seems the consensus.
If the boom pressure is on your front hand just move the harness lines forward until the pressure is balanced between your hands, 1-2" at a time until you get it right. Of course, outhaul will affect that too, more outhaul moves the sail pressure farther back towards the rear hand.
And like WoH mentions, you want to get the sail pressure in the harness, I really like the Dakine Reflex seat harness and Sailworks Quicktune harnes lines except for the rope if your in saltwater, see my review on them.
Select to expand quoteKDog said..
WsurfAustin my first season nothing felt right so I raised the boom and pushed the harness lines forward with TOW things went back to what I use on my wave board. I am assuming your use the plate mount that came with the 76inf. I run the back of the plate at 3.5 I think ,pushing forward will increase lift, try running the sail mast plate about 3/4 of the way back but I think TOW will help more . Also looks like you foil on a inland lake probably gusty witch makes learning a bit more of a challenge.
Update.
Eureka !. I had great session yesterday in 12-22 knots, lots of boat chop etc. 2 things that made everything work. 1. I removed the foot straps to experiment with the whole balance aspect. Turns out having my front foot in the wing position foot strap location keeps my COE forward enough to prevent breaching. Works way better off the wind also. Harness lines also more balanced. 2. Got a new 4.5, 2 camber sailworks flyer. With the sail form being consistent from loaded to unloaded, makes the crazy puffs easier to modulate power. What I didn't expect was how much lighter the sail is compared to a Goya Fringe.
I wish there were more forward outboard mounting holes for the foot straps on the V3 114. I also found in lighter wind conditions I can pump up and fly sooner. Even with straps in the forward windfoil position, I just drag the tail and can't get enough board speed. Without the straps I can keep the board flatter and pump up to foiling speed quicker. I still need a lot of work on the jibes, but everything just go a lot funner. 
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..KDog said..
WsurfAustin my first season nothing felt right so I raised the boom and pushed the harness lines forward with TOW things went back to what I use on my wave board. I am assuming your use the plate mount that came with the 76inf. I run the back of the plate at 3.5 I think ,pushing forward will increase lift, try running the sail mast plate about 3/4 of the way back but I think TOW will help more . Also looks like you foil on a inland lake probably gusty witch makes learning a bit more of a challenge.
Update.
Eureka !. I had great session yesterday in 12-22 knots, lots of boat chop etc. 2 things that made everything work. 1. I removed the foot straps to experiment with the whole balance aspect. Turns out having my front foot in the wing position foot strap location keeps my COE forward enough to prevent breaching. Works way better off the wind also. Harness lines also more balanced. 2. Got a new 4.5, 2 camber sailworks flyer. With the sail form being consistent from loaded to unloaded, makes the crazy puffs easier to modulate power. What I didn't expect was how much lighter the sail is compared to a Goya Fringe.
I wish there were more forward outboard mounting holes for the foot straps on the V3 114. I also found in lighter wind conditions I can pump up and fly sooner. Even with straps in the forward windfoil position, I just drag the tail and can't get enough board speed. Without the straps I can keep the board flatter and pump up to foiling speed quicker. I still need a lot of work on the jibes, but everything just go a lot funner.
Not trying to discourage if it feels right then try it like that but sounds like the foil is to far forward in the tracks. I'll try to post a photo a first for me
Select to expand quoteKDog said..WsurfAustin said..KDog said..
WsurfAustin my first season nothing felt right so I raised the boom and pushed the harness lines forward with TOW things went back to what I use on my wave board. I am assuming your use the plate mount that came with the 76inf. I run the back of the plate at 3.5 I think ,pushing forward will increase lift, try running the sail mast plate about 3/4 of the way back but I think TOW will help more . Also looks like you foil on a inland lake probably gusty witch makes learning a bit more of a challenge.
Update.
Eureka !. I had great session yesterday in 12-22 knots, lots of boat chop etc. 2 things that made everything work. 1. I removed the foot straps to experiment with the whole balance aspect. Turns out having my front foot in the wing position foot strap location keeps my COE forward enough to prevent breaching. Works way better off the wind also. Harness lines also more balanced. 2. Got a new 4.5, 2 camber sailworks flyer. With the sail form being consistent from loaded to unloaded, makes the crazy puffs easier to modulate power. What I didn't expect was how much lighter the sail is compared to a Goya Fringe.
I wish there were more forward outboard mounting holes for the foot straps on the V3 114. I also found in lighter wind conditions I can pump up and fly sooner. Even with straps in the forward windfoil position, I just drag the tail and can't get enough board speed. Without the straps I can keep the board flatter and pump up to foiling speed quicker. I still need a lot of work on the jibes, but everything just go a lot funner.
Not trying to discourage if it feels right then try it like that but sounds like the foil is to far forward in the tracks. I'll try to post a photo a first for me
Looks close mine..thanks for posting pic. Just for a reality check, would you mind measuring the hole location for the forward position foot strap ?. I measured from the stern as a reference. 30" for the most forward out board position and 35 for the wing foil position.
