Ciao guys,
I am Michele from Italy. I am reading this very useful forum since several months and now I decided to start the transition from windsurfer to wind-foiler! 
I am a complete newbie and for this reason I have some basic questions since I did not find the reply in the other posts.
I am 70 Kg and 1.88 cm tall. I windsurf in the Adriatic sea where the wind is generally weak (0-15 knots) and I want to increase the number of rides.
My big board is a Fanatic Falcon 2010 133 liters (carbon sandwich construction and deep tuttle box) which is a pretty good slalom board with normal fin.
Up to your experience, can I use use a foil on this board without having to modify the board reinforcing the fin box?
Thanks and congratulations for this nice forum!
I've seen a slalom board cope with it for a while. I've seen another slalom board not cope. Foiling puts a large amount of force on the box in all sorts of directions that the box was never intended to carry. it's always a risk.
i suppose it depends how much it matters to you that the board stays the way it is. One way to look at it is to use it for foiling and monitor the area where the box is after each sail. top/bottom and in the chimneys if its got them. If it shows any sign at all of failing, stop using it and either then get it re-enforced for foiling, or fix it and don't use it for foiling anymore. I wouldn't have it as a long term plan for foiling though, not without re-enforcing it.
keep in mind that there is also the risk that it might fail quite suddenly, and if the foil doesn't float, then its bye bye foil and tuttle box.
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
I've seen a slalom board cope with it for a while. I've seen another slalom board not cope. Foiling puts a large amount of force on the box in all sorts of directions that the box was never intended to carry. it's always a risk.
i suppose it depends how much it matters to you that the board stays the way it is. One way to look at it is to use it for foiling and monitor the area where the box is after each sail. top/bottom and in the chimneys if its got them. If it shows any sign at all of failing, stop using it and either then get it re-enforced for foiling, or fix it and don't use it for foiling anymore. I wouldn't have it as a long term plan for foiling though, not without re-enforcing it.
keep in mind that there is also the risk that it might fail quite suddenly, and if the foil doesn't float, then its bye bye foil and tuttle box.
Also depends on the foil you use. If you use a foil with a shorter 75-85 cm mast and a plate (like Starboard GT-Alu/Freeride, Zeeko, AFS 85, etc) that helps. iirc, a lot of the damage we saw early were from boards with "chimneys" - holes for the tuttle screws because the fin boxes weren't tied into the deck very well. You can either bridge over the holes with big washers* or fill in the chimneys.
The advice most often given was use it with a tether and when it shows signs of failing, replace. Seatext boards up on Garda does an amazing job if you want it re-enforced properly.
* marseille.glissattitude.com/windfoil/u38223s1-alpinefoil-platine-de-pont-alpinefoil-2019.html
www.seatexboards.com
If you add a patch of carbon/glass to the top of the board just above the fin bolt holes it'll greatly increase durability. Just half a dozen layers thick and 10 by 5cm works well. Not a bad idea to use some kind of nose protector too, until you're proficient.
I agree. If the deep tuttle box goes from the bottom deck all the way up to the top deck, WITHOUT the CHIMNEYS, it will likely be OK. For foiling I use three formula boards with stock deep tuttle boxes, but they go from bottom to top. No chimneys.
Otherwise, just foil with it. If it fails, then you know that you have to get it repaired and reinforced. Use a foil leash.
Hello,
I riding a falcon 148l 2011 with slingshot foil, it working well. For the deep Tuttle box I did not reinforce it, I just add a moulded carbon counter plate 2-3mm with large washer on bolt I did not have any issue since 2 years.
Thank you very much guys!
You gave me very useful informations.
Honestly I did not understand what do you mean with 'chimneys'. Do you have any image of these?Select to expand quoteSamkyo said..
Hello,
I riding a falcon 148l 2011 with slingshot foil, it working well. For the deep Tuttle box I did not reinforce it, I just add a moulded carbon counter plate 2-3mm with large washer on bolt I did not have any issue since 2 years.
Thank you Samkyo.
We have very similar boards so I ask you some more informations.
Did you buy online the moulded carbon counter plate?
How is it going the foil with the Falcon? Are the foil and straps position fine?Select to expand quotePaducah said..Subsonic said..
I've seen a slalom board cope with it for a while. I've seen another slalom board not cope. Foiling puts a large amount of force on the box in all sorts of directions that the box was never intended to carry. it's always a risk.
i suppose it depends how much it matters to you that the board stays the way it is. One way to look at it is to use it for foiling and monitor the area where the box is after each sail. top/bottom and in the chimneys if its got them. If it shows any sign at all of failing, stop using it and either then get it re-enforced for foiling, or fix it and don't use it for foiling anymore. I wouldn't have it as a long term plan for foiling though, not without re-enforcing it.
keep in mind that there is also the risk that it might fail quite suddenly, and if the foil doesn't float, then its bye bye foil and tuttle box.
Also depends on the foil you use. If you use a foil with a shorter 75-85 cm mast and a plate (like Starboard GT-Alu/Freeride, Zeeko, AFS 85, etc) that helps. iirc, a lot of the damage we saw early were from boards with "chimneys" - holes for the tuttle screws because the fin boxes weren't tied into the deck very well. You can either bridge over the holes with big washers* or fill in the chimneys.
The advice most often given was use it with a tether and when it shows signs of failing, replace. Seatext boards up on Garda does an amazing job if you want it re-enforced properly.
* marseille.glissattitude.com/windfoil/u38223s1-alpinefoil-platine-de-pont-alpinefoil-2019.html
www.seatexboards.com
Thank you Paducah.
I gave a call to Seatex since they are near to my city. They seems very expert on the topic!Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
I've seen a slalom board cope with it for a while. I've seen another slalom board not cope. Foiling puts a large amount of force on the box in all sorts of directions that the box was never intended to carry. it's always a risk.
i suppose it depends how much it matters to you that the board stays the way it is. One way to look at it is to use it for foiling and monitor the area where the box is after each sail. top/bottom and in the chimneys if its got them. If it shows any sign at all of failing, stop using it and either then get it re-enforced for foiling, or fix it and don't use it for foiling anymore. I wouldn't have it as a long term plan for foiling though, not without re-enforcing it.
keep in mind that there is also the risk that it might fail quite suddenly, and if the foil doesn't float, then its bye bye foil and tuttle box.
Thank you Subsonic. Select to expand quotesegler said..
I agree. If the deep tuttle box goes from the bottom deck all the way up to the top deck, WITHOUT the CHIMNEYS, it will likely be OK. For foiling I use three formula boards with stock deep tuttle boxes, but they go from bottom to top. No chimneys.
Otherwise, just foil with it. If it fails, then you know that you have to get it repaired and reinforced. Use a foil leash.
Thank you segler.Select to expand quoteAwalkspoiled said..
If you add a patch of carbon/glass to the top of the board just above the fin bolt holes it'll greatly increase durability. Just half a dozen layers thick and 10 by 5cm works well. Not a bad idea to use some kind of nose protector too, until you're proficient.
Thank you Awalkspoiled
Let me try to clarify chimneys. If you look on the top of some boards with tuttle or deep tuttle boxes, the tops of the screws are recessed down inside tubes. I worry that such a finbox is bonded only to the bottom surface and the inside foam without any additional reinforcements.
If, however, the screw hole is flush on the top surface of the board, and so if the top of the screw rests on the top surface of the board, there is no chimney. "No chimney" is desirable since it means the finbox was installed from bottom surface to top surface, and is therefore stronger. This finbox is bonded to both bottom and top board skins for reinforcement. Much stronger.
Pretty much all Powerbox finboxes out there have a single chimney for the one screw. This can't be very strong for our purposes. This is why you don't see very many Powerbox boards being used for windfoiling.
So, first of all, avoid Powerbox for windfoiling. Just sayin'.
Secondly, avoid risk of failure in tuttle or deep tuttle boards by avoiding chimneys. Go flush and use long screws (stainless, not titanium).
After three years of windfoiling with three formula boards and one purpose-built custom foiling board--all with flush finboxes--I have never had a box failure or even a close call. I have never broken a stainless screw.
Hello,
for the carbon counter plate, I mould it myself on the board to have the most accurate shape.
footstrap position, I got front footstrap at second hole from front and rear footstrap at second hole from rear, it working ok.
This tuning is clearly to get a lot of control as I was getting only this board for the range 8 to 18kts
I am going to move back 1 or 2 holes the front footstrap for both slalom and foil
In general for take off with really light wind my rear foot is centreline in between Tuttle bolt to help initiate.
